What rifle do you totally trust on dangerous game and what rifle do you mistrust on Dangerous game

[Foxi]

As flawed as I may be:
I trust scoped bolt action rifle.
I don't trust any iron sighted rifles (due to my eyes) and I dont trust double rifles (I dont have skills for them).

So, "not trusting" is the fault of mine. Not the fault of the equipment.

For all those aspiring a dangerous game traditional hunt with traditional equipment, with a gear that I find not trusty due to errors of my ways, following video (10 min) is very educational.

Lesson learned on the end, as stated by Phil Massaro, "Iron sighted double rifle is fantastic weapon, but in a hind sight, if I had scoped rifle...."

What should be noticed is the VISIBILITY conditions in the moment of the shot. Bush, and branches. This in my opinion is not for iron sighted rifle.

Whatever was the case, buffalo was lost. And there is not much videos like that around, this one is realistic.

The guy should talk less and shoot better; or refrain from shooting if it's not right.
To me, he's a nonsense-talker and a pompous windbag.

 

[Longwalker]

I've gone through a bunch of rifles that would normally be considered Dangerous game capable. Perhaps I'm too cheap, I'm always looking to save some money instead of "pay once cry once". But every one of my rifles had to have something done to them to make them entirely reliable.

Ruger RSM .375 H&H - front bead sight was too small, needed to be replaced. Bolt handle almost disappeared in that chubby stock. Handling was clubby. Bolt stop was a little sticky. Trigger was so bad I replaced it, but new trigger was too small / Short for the thick stock so I had to have a gunsmith smooth the original. Sold it.

CZ550 AHR custom .375H&H - Beautiful rifle, but feeding rails were so rough it deeply scored cartridge cases and was not smooth feeding. It was so rough and awkward I had to dismount and work the action from a lowered position to ensure reliable reloads. Accuracy was never up to my standards. Had to replace the follower and magazine spring after working on the rails. Sold it.

Sako AIV Safari - Beautiful rifle, fed and ejected perfectly, nice handling, but accuracy was poor and no matter what I fed it I couldn't get it to shoot even 2" groups. Sold it.

Winchester M70 Alaskan .375 H&H - Supposedly a wonderful foolproof design. Bedding was a gob of cheap thermoplastic that had to be replaced with proper epoxy/ pillars. That fixed the accuracy problems. Mine also failed to fire about 1/3 shots. It was shipped with a very weak striker spring. Took a year for Winchester / BACO to fix on warranty. The new striker was adequate, barely, but after the repair the light pressure required to lift the bolt and the small indentations in primers gave me no confidence. Sold it.

Sako M85 Kodiak .375 H&H. Mine showed the common fault of ejecting empty cartridge cases at too high an angle, hitting windage scope turret and falling back into the action. That was easily fixed with a custom extractor that had less clearance between claw and cartridge rim, a local machinist made mine for $50 and it has worked perfectly since. I didn't have to turn my scope 90° counterclockwise like some suggest, although that would work too. But the goofy little recoil plate system also failed, shearing off action screws before I figured out that the two wood screws holding the recoil plate were inadequate for the job. Recoil plate and stock had to be repaired with epoxy but are stable and stronger than new now. I'm keeping this one. It's accurate, feeds extremely smoothly, and I really like the detachable magazine system that is foolproof, won't come out accidentally, can be top loaded, and has one more cartridge capacity than most .375's. The partial controlled round feed guards agains a short stroke, despite what M98 naysayers claim. I like it.

Rented rifles:
I used a Winchester M70 African .375 H&H on a Zimbabwe buffalo hunt. Rifle seemed reliable and serviceable, ( why I bought the M70 Alaskan) but the Leupold scope had an illuminated reticle that failed during a bush pig hunt in poor light. I don't trust Leopold's lighting system since.

I used a Winchester M70 African .416 Rem on an elephant hunt. I could have died during an intense, close range charge because I ran out of ammo ( incident reported previously on this forum) , since the rifle only held three cartridges due to a fault in the magazine. If three cartridges were loaded in the magazine and one in the chamber, that rifle would jam nearly every time when the first shot was fired. So I hunted with only two in the magazine. Normally that's not a problem, but that one time ...

Double:
My Merkel 140AE .450-400 3" was used on two successful buffalo hunts. It was a good rifle, and I liked it, no complaints. Accurate and reliable. It did experience a slightly bent front trigger when I lent it to an inexperienced shooter who tried to fire it with the safety on. I can't imagine how much pressure was applied, but certainly too much for that thin trigger. I personally never experienced that problem, and don't really call that a failing, I just bent the trigger back in place and all was good ever after.

If I knew back then what I know now, I'd just buy a Heym Martini Express or Blaser R8 in .375H&H and go hunt stuff.

 

[Doug Hamilton]

I learned very good lessons in Alaska with rifles and watched others really mess up and almost lose their lives .My top Alaska DGR was a Weatherby Accumark in 338-378 .I put that rifle through so many test i wonder why Weatherby is not considered more often .I found a custom 416 rem mag weatherby that looks totally promising also .I love how smooth their bolts work and compared to todays worse ever bolting guns they are the perfect DGRs to me .I hardly ever see Weatherby rifles talked about but saw alot of them in the field .The Ruger 77 stainless was way more popular in Alaska but they are not as smooth as weatherbys .I would like for the mark V to be able to open the bolt without taking off the safety thats the only thing i dont like on my favorite DGR .
I would not trust a savage or marlin lever gun as a DGR i have seen both jam like crazy and be totally useable .I had my sav 260 rem totally jam on a big buck .I bought a savage 458 that was 6.75 pounds didnt even fire it .

I favor Mauser 98 those actions in a caliber that is more than adequate for any game I might shoot. Mine is a Whitworth Express Mark X in .458 WM. I have used this rifle to.take two cape buffalo. I do not believe there is any animal that I could take with it. Of course I have spent quite a bit of time working up hand loads and making sure everything works correctly. Over the years I had the trigger replaced with a him net and the safety replaced with a Model 70 style, the stick was glass bedded and had it Magnaported. Then the action was smoothed. You could probably buy one for about $1200, but I wouldn't sell mine for twice that.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Let’s see now…

Calibers:
I like .375 Holland & Holland Magnum, .404 Jeffery (German loading only), .416 Rigby, .416 Remington Magnum, .425 Westley Richards, .450 Rigby Magnum, .505 Gibbs, .500/416 Nitro Express, .577 Nitro Express, .600 Nitro Express.

I dislike 10.75x68mm Mauser, .460 Weatherby Magnum, .600 Overkill, .700 Nitro Express.

I don’t particularly like the .458 Winchester Magnum, but I don’t mind using it as long as I have access to fresh hand loads (or Barnes 450Gr ammunition).

Actions:
I like Granite Mountain Arms Mausers , Waffen Prechtll Mausers, FZH Mausers, Reiner Johanssen Mausers, Hambrush Mega Magnum Mausers, Armeria Concarri Mausers, Mauser Oberndorfs (both the new ones AND the original pre 1939 ones), Ruger Hawkeyes, pre 1964 Winchester Model 70s, BRNO ZKK 600/601/602, Pattern 14 Enfields, Enfield Model 1917s, ManuFrance Rivals, Mannlicher Schoenauers, BSA Royal, Parker Hale Mausers, FN Mauser Series 300, Webley & Scott PHV-1 boxlocks, Heym Model 89B boxlocks, John Rigby & Co. Shikari boxlocks.

I dislike the Weatherby Mark V, Remington Model 700 (unless the factory extractor is replaced with an M16 extractor), push feed Winchester Model 70, BSA Monarch, BSA CF2, James Purdey & Sons sidelocks, any kind of single shot.

I’m not a Blaser R8 guy, but this is purely because of my whimsical nature (I like traditional looking rifles). They are really actually extremely reliable rifles. I’ll happily use a Springfield Model 1903A3 if the factory two piece striker is replaced with a titanium striker. I’ll happily use a BSA Majestic if somebody cuts off those beastly muzzle brakes. I’ll happily use an FN Series 400 if the factory coil spring on the magazine base plate is replaced with stronger one. But not in any dusty areas (otherwise what happened to @Red Leg , will happen again).


Ammunition:
I like Federal, Barnes & Labor Fur Ballistik

I dislike Weatherby, Hornady & Prvi Partizan (the latter almost got me killed by an elephant bull in 2006). Probably the one ammunition I hated the most, were Winchester Silver Tips. But fortunately, they haven’t been produced since 1999.

Norma & Swift are both good, but seldom available these days.


In General:

I like quick release mounts, wide V backsights, uncovered ivory bead foresights, ghost rings, red dots, India rubber recoil pads, Limb Saver recoil pads, manual safeties on double rifles, English or Turkish or French walnut stocks.

I dislike slings, telescopic sights with too high magnification, steel butt plates, automatic safeties on double rifles, Claro stocks on any caliber larger than 9.3mm.

I’m not a huge fan of synthetic stocks, but again… my reasons are purely whimsical. I’ll happily use one if it’s what I have available to me.

Interesting. I've never heard of the Springfield 2-piece striker failing. The firing pin tip is quite robust. And easily replaced if necessary. Firing pin tips can be had for $20 on ebay. Price out a replacement one-piece striker for Model 70. Ouch!

 

[Rare Breed]

You will not find a universal appreciation of the Weatherby design as a good choice for dangerous game and particularly not among professional hunters in Africa. I am glad it has worked for you. It would not be the basis of a DG rifle that I would use.

There are Mausers and there are Mausers. Most are extremely reliable and make fine dangerous game rifles. That said, the only DG rifle that I have ever had fail was a custom job built on an FN Mauser action. It had the FN articulated bolt release, and if the tiniest bit of dust made its way into the release, I would find myself with the bolt in my hand on the reload. It worked on a cape buffalo, but it has never been back to Africa with me.

I am a big fan of the Blaser R8 design. By this point I have likely used twenty different rifles, mine and rentals, in at least half a dozen calibers in North America, Europe and Africa. All have worked perfectly and would be my go to choice were I headed to Africa, BC, Europe, or SA tomorrow for either regular or dangerous game.

Completely agree. The only rifle I ever had malfunction was a custom built with a Mauser action in 375. I bought it NIB never fired thinking how great that was…never again. When I shot it in normal weather no problems with high quality factory ammo. When I got to Africa in 100+F it would not let me open the bolt after my first shot at a Cape Buffalo. Fortunately the bull was facing me in tall grass and my PH told me to make a brain shot given only 20 yards so my first shot was successful but I vowed never to buy another custom rifle just me after that experience and yes it was a very expensive gun

 

[Rare Breed]

I am completely in @Kevin Peacocke camp!!! Outside of leopard I only use my Rigby DR for DG not taking any chance on a bolt action malfunction. just me

 

[dgr416]

I've gone through a bunch of rifles that would normally be considered Dangerous game capable. Perhaps I'm too cheap, I'm always looking to save some money instead of "pay once cry once". But every one of my rifles had to have something done to them to make them entirely reliable.

Ruger RSM .375 H&H - front bead sight was too small, needed to be replaced. Bolt handle almost disappeared in that chubby stock. Handling was clubby. Bolt stop was a little sticky. Trigger was so bad I replaced it, but new trigger was too small / Short for the thick stock so I had to have a gunsmith smooth the original. Sold it.

CZ550 AHR custom .375H&H - Beautiful rifle, but feeding rails were so rough it deeply scored cartridge cases and was not smooth feeding. It was so rough and awkward I had to dismount and work the action from a lowered position to ensure reliable reloads. Accuracy was never up to my standards. Had to replace the follower and magazine spring after working on the rails. Sold it.

Sako AIV Safari - Beautiful rifle, fed and ejected perfectly, nice handling, but accuracy was poor and no matter what I fed it I couldn't get it to shoot even 2" groups. Sold it.

Winchester M70 Alaskan .375 H&H - Supposedly a wonderful foolproof design. Bedding was a gob of cheap thermoplastic that had to be replaced with proper epoxy/ pillars. That fixed the accuracy problems. Mine also failed to fire about 1/3 shots. It was shipped with a very weak striker spring. Took a year for Winchester / BACO to fix on warranty. The new striker was adequate, barely, but after the repair the light pressure required to lift the bolt and the small indentations in primers gave me no confidence. Sold it.

Sako M85 Kodiak .375 H&H. Mine showed the common fault of ejecting empty cartridge cases at too high an angle, hitting windage scope turret and falling back into the action. That was easily fixed with a custom extractor that had less clearance between claw and cartridge rim, a local machinist made mine for $50 and it has worked perfectly since. I didn't have to turn my scope 90° counterclockwise like some suggest, although that would work too. But the goofy little recoil plate system also failed, shearing off action screws before I figured out that the two wood screws holding the recoil plate were inadequate for the job. Recoil plate and stock had to be repaired with epoxy but are stable and stronger than new now. I'm keeping this one. It's accurate, feeds extremely smoothly, and I really like the detachable magazine system that is foolproof, won't come out accidentally, can be top loaded, and has one more cartridge capacity than most .375's. The partial controlled round feed guards agains a short stroke, despite what M98 naysayers claim. I like it.

Rented rifles:
I used a Winchester M70 African .375 H&H on a Zimbabwe buffalo hunt. Rifle seemed reliable and serviceable, ( why I bought the M70 Alaskan) but the Leupold scope had an illuminated reticle that failed during a bush pig hunt in poor light. I don't trust Leopold's lighting system since.

I used a Winchester M70 African .416 Rem on an elephant hunt. I could have died during an intense, close range charge because I ran out of ammo ( incident reported previously on this forum) , since the rifle only held three cartridges due to a fault in the magazine. If three cartridges were loaded in the magazine and one in the chamber, that rifle would jam nearly every time when the first shot was fired. So I hunted with only two in the magazine. Normally that's not a problem, but that one time ...

Double:
My Merkel 140AE .450-400 3" was used on two successful buffalo hunts. It was a good rifle, and I liked it, no complaints. Accurate and reliable. It did experience a slightly bent front trigger when I lent it to an inexperienced shooter who tried to fire it with the safety on. I can't imagine how much pressure was applied, but certainly too much for that thin trigger. I personally never experienced that problem, and don't really call that a failing, I just bent the trigger back in place and all was good ever after.

If I knew back then what I know now, I'd just buy a Heym Martini Express or Blaser R8 in .375H&H and go hunt stuff.

I think alot of rifles such as rem 700 and win 70 both have bad magazine springs which are cheap and dont work right when stuffed full of 375 h&h and 416 rem mag .I had to replace the springs in both my rem 700 416 rem mags with weatherby springs to get them to work right .My winchester model 70 the spring had to be replaced twice and on my model 70 338 win mag stainless .I had another 416 rem mag model 70 sites fell off before it was shot they finally replaced them .
I dont think special parts are put in these bigger rifles .My weatherby Accumarks gave me no problems of total hell in Alaska for 12 years which would have destroyed lots of other guns from weather and pounding on 4 wheelers and bad boat rides .I had to rebuild that stainless model 70 338 win mag it was crazy and the scope holes were drilled crooked too the magazine and trigger guard had to be totally replaced it .The barrel rusted like crazy for no reason in the case .It was a good rifle after i fixed it .

 

[Hunter-Habib]

Interesting. I've never heard of the Springfield 2-piece striker failing. The firing pin tip is quite robust. And easily replaced if necessary. Firing pin tips can be had for $20 on ebay. Price out a replacement one-piece striker for Model 70. Ouch!

To be fair, neither did I. But apparently Jack O Connor did.

 

[coreydb]

As far as calibers, .375 and up. As far as rifles, I can only speak to bolt actions. For that, I have a Remington 700 415 Rem Mag with a claw extractor that never failed, and a Granite Mountain with a CRF.

 

[mark-hunter]

Two qoutes from Robert Ruark, come handy:
(And it is not about buffalo looking at you, owning him a money)

Quote no 1 by Ruark - lesson learned - short range weapon only.
Qoute/unqoute
Anything over thirty yards is not a good safe range, because a heavy double—a .450 No. 2 or a .470—is not too accurate at more than one hundred yards. Stalking the herd is easier than stalking the old and wary lone bull, which has been expelled from the flock by the young bloods, or stalking an old bull with an askaria young bull that serves as stooge and bodyguard to the oldster. The young punk is usually well alerted while his hero feeds, and you cannot close the range satisfactorily without spooking the watchman.


Quote no 2, by Ruark - lesson learned - double rifle can make double shot.
Qoute/unqoute
It is not like 100% reliable on second shot which is most repeated quality of a double.
In hunting camp were I was last, there was an elephant scull with one bullet hole. Fine, but the same double, doubled, and second unitended shot missed.

qoute/unqoute
I was using a big double, a Westley-Richards. 470. The gun went off. The buffalo went down. So did I. I had managed to loose off both barrels of this elephant gun, and the resulting concussion was roughly comparable to shooting a three-inch anti-aircraft gun off your shoulder. I was knocked as silly as a man can be knocked and still be semiconscious. I got up and stood there stupidly, with an empty gun in my hands, shaking my head. Somewhere away in Uganda I heard a gun go off and Mr. Selby’s clear tone came faintly.

“I do hope you don’t mind,” said he. “You knocked him over, but he got up again and took off for the bush. I thought I’d best break his back, although I’m certain you got his heart. It’s just that it’s dreadfully thick in there, and we’d no way of examining the wound to see whether you’d killed him. He’s down, over there at the edge of the wood.”

 

[mark-hunter]

The guy should talk less and shoot better; or refrain from shooting if it's not right.
To me, he's a nonsense-talker and a pompous windbag.

You know the bible story of throwing the stones at someone?

He is editor of gun magazine, and probably got rifle to try in promotion video.

I do not dispute what you are saying, but how would you handle PR and promo video as gun magazine editor, on several media platforms and on printed edition with "talking less"?
That job is not for mute people.

With that job description I doubt he lacks trigger time.

Getting offered to try a reputable rifle in hunting conditions from high end gun maker, how to handle this as it goes with the same job? Refuse? We do not know, how long he prepared for this hunt with .

Finally who hunts for years, and can say he never missed? I cannot say that for myself. It happens.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Two qoutes from Robert Ruark, come handy:
(And it is not about buffalo looking at you, owning him a money)

Quote no 1 by Ruark - lesson learned - short range weapon only.
Qoute/unqoute
Anything over thirty yards is not a good safe range, because a heavy double—a .450 No. 2 or a .470—is not too accurate at more than one hundred yards. Stalking the herd is easier than stalking the old and wary lone bull, which has been expelled from the flock by the young bloods, or stalking an old bull with an askaria young bull that serves as stooge and bodyguard to the oldster. The young punk is usually well alerted while his hero feeds, and you cannot close the range satisfactorily without spooking the watchman.


Quote no 2, by Ruark - lesson learned - double rifle can make double shot.
Qoute/unqoute
It is not like 100% reliable on second shot which is most repeated quality of a double.
In hunting camp were I was last, there was an elephant scull with one bullet hole. Fine, but the same double, doubled, and second unitended shot missed.

qoute/unqoute
I was using a big double, a Westley-Richards. 470. The gun went off. The buffalo went down. So did I. I had managed to loose off both barrels of this elephant gun, and the resulting concussion was roughly comparable to shooting a three-inch anti-aircraft gun off your shoulder. I was knocked as silly as a man can be knocked and still be semiconscious. I got up and stood there stupidly, with an empty gun in my hands, shaking my head. Somewhere away in Uganda I heard a gun go off and Mr. Selby’s clear tone came faintly.

“I do hope you don’t mind,” said he. “You knocked him over, but he got up again and took off for the bush. I thought I’d best break his back, although I’m certain you got his heart. It’s just that it’s dreadfully thick in there, and we’d no way of examining the wound to see whether you’d killed him. He’s down, over there at the edge of the wood.”

And what did Selby use to finish the job? A 416 Rigby caliber standard action right hand 98 Mauser ... that he shot left handed!

 

[mark-hunter]

And what did Selby use to finish the job? A 416 Rigby caliber standard action right hand 98 Mauser ... that he shot left handed!

I am weak person, I must apologize in advance, but I cannot resist, but to paraphrase famous quote:

"Bolt action rifle, is the weapon that made Africa safe for double!"

 

[Nhoro]

My trusted rifle is a CZ 550 in 458 Lott. It needed work to feed flat nose solids. It also came with the front sight soldered at an angle and an odd piece of plastic behind the recoil lug. I bedded both recoil lugs. It has been tested under pressure and now I trust it. Every rifle can fail, all actions and configurations.Some are more prone to failure. I think Mauser actions and double actions are probably the most reliable.

I also think that some choices around your rifle can make them unreliable for example high pressure loads, dirty conditions, poor cleaning etc.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I am weak person, I must apologize in advance, but I cannot resist, but to paraphrase famous quote:

"Bolt action rifle, is the weapon that made Africa safe for double!"

I always wondered why if the double rifle is such a magical DGR, did it never catch on as a military weapon? Never any double muskets for Napoleanic era infantry. Not that I know of anyway. Too expensive to make? To heavy? Was it more important for a hunter to personally kill his quarry unassisted than a soldier to personally kill his enemy unassisted?

That is an interesting quote. I guess it's meaning is open for interpretation a couple of ways.

 

[ftrovato]

I have to lean toward a double for the quick second shot if you need it.
Sure it better count cuz you're empty once you send it!

I personally subscribe to bigger calibers are always better. With that, I don't care for the 375 for the bigger stuff that can kill you. It might penetrate great, but I'd like more energy if the situation gets sketchy!

But that's just me and I'm not much more than an arm chair expert and were just making conversation here.

 

[double rifle newbie]

I have to lean toward a double for the quick second shot if you need it.
Sure it better count cuz you're empty once you send it!

I personally subscribe to bigger calibers are always better. With that, I don't care for the 375 for the bigger stuff that can kill you. It might penetrate great, but I'd like more energy if the situation gets sketchy!

But that's just me and I'm not much more than an arm chair expert and were just making conversation here.

yep. 2 barrels, 2 triggers, 2 firing pins, very compact since no receiver, etc

i have a 450NE and a 9.3x74r double and absolutely love them both.

 

[BJH65]

Like what many have previously stated, a rifle that you have thoroughly tested, practiced with and have complete confidence in is one that you can trust. If I have not done the previous, then I won’t trust it.

I have complete trust in my custom Brno 458 Lott, CZ 416 Rigby and custom Winchester pre 64 M70 416 Rem Mag because I have used them extensively. My custom Brno 458 Lott pictured below is my sentimental favorite, something about it in my hands just inspires absolute confidence. There’s nothing pretty about it, it’s very utilitarian, but can handle any kind of environment and still perform flawlessly.

I didn’t realize this was a double rifle vs bolt action rifle thread? Smile.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Like what many have previously stated, a rifle that you have thoroughly tested, practiced with and have complete confidence in is one that you can trust. If I have not done the previous, then I won’t trust it.

I have complete trust in my custom Brno 458 Lott, CZ 416 Rigby and custom Winchester pre 64 M70 416 Rem Mag because I have used them extensively. My custom Brno 458 Lott pictured below is my sentimental favorite, something about it in my hands just inspires absolute confidence. There’s nothing pretty about it, it’s very utilitarian, but can handle any kind of environment and still perform flawlessly.

I didn’t realize this was a double rifle vs bolt action rifle thread? Smile.

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4+1?

 

[BJH65]

4+1?

5+1