Any of you stop a charge with a handgun?

[Beethoven]

Hunting buffalo with a spear is somewhat retarded.

 

[Betterinthebush]

The only time I take my pistol out of the tent is when I’m packing out a moose. I can’t carry, nor could I wield a rifle loaded down under the weight of the moose and my hands are in hiking poles. That’s when I’m most vulnerable. But, I wish I were bigger and stronger during packing, because then I could carry my rifle.

 

[Carnivore hunter]

Hunting buffalo with a spear is somewhat retarded.

I would not do it. But, Lynn has more courage than I.

 

[WAB]

Where are the studies/data of large sample sizes that prove most hunters never have sidearms on them in Alaska? Not some random news story, blogs or anecdotes but, an official government or academic study backed up by math.

I am speaking from experience. But then, I guess you know a lot more about Alaska than I do.

 

[WAB]

I am speaking from experience. But then, I guess you know a lot more about Alaska than I do.

And I do think it interesting that you make an absolute statement, which is not true, and then when called on it, insist on a scientific study to refute your incorrect statement. Are you by any chance a democrat?

 

[WAB]

As some of you know, one of my best friends is a well-known brown bear guide in SE Alaska. I have guided for him many times and he has hunted with me several times in Colorado. He recently sold his guiding business and now operates a charter flight service with his Beaver airplane, headquartered out of Petersburg. Several years ago, he was badly mauled by a wounded brown bear when his Sako 416 Remington Mag malfunctioned after he got a good shot into the previously wounded bear as it charged. The rifle would not feed another cartridge and he had to keep shoving it into the bear’s mouth to stay alive until the bear finally got really sick and sat down. He was not wearing a sidearm but he did from then on. In the thick rainforests of SE Alaska, we carried sidearms after he was attacked but surmised that they were really only useful if a bear knocked your rifle out of your hands or was on top of you.

When guiding on the Alaskan Peninsula, the cover is not as thick and I am never alone. I do not wear a sidearm on the Peninsula but I would not be against doing it. If so, I would wear a 10mm or 45 ACP semiautomatic. That said, I wouldn’t choose it in a charge over my CZ550 458 Lott with six rounds unless I lost control of the rifle. I have a QD scope and I carry a Leica Tempus red dot holographic sight in my pack in case I need to follow up a wounded bear in the alders. I did put a wounded, charging bear down at 20 yards in May 2024 with my Lott.

As for African DG, I think the reason that carrying a sidearm there has not caught on is two-fold. First, it is very difficult, and in some countries, impossible, to get a permit to carry a sidearm, especially as a foreigner. Secondly, wilderness area safaris are usually a group activity with a highly skilled and armed PH accompanying the hunter, as well as an armed government Game Scout. That’s at least three guys with rifles so therefore, the need for a sidearm is much diminished.

If I were hiking or hunting alone in a DG area in Alaska or Africa, I would carry a sidearm. My friend and client, Dan Shilling, was tragically killed by a brown bear while hiking in the mountains behind his home near Hope, AK. He was carrying bear spray and the empty, deployed canister was found near his half-consumed remains. Makes me sad and I shutter a bit just thinking about how horrific of a death he suffered.

I had a similar thought about the pistol in my chest rig when fishing. I figured the most likely outcome if charged was that I would be shooting the bear while he was chewing on me.

 

[Carnivore hunter]

I am speaking from experience. But then, I guess you know a lot more about Alaska than I do.

Your "experience" is purely anecdotal, it's only your own personal experience with your eyes only with what you seen which is just anecdotal not scientific. You been to Alaska, you talked to some people, you seen some hunters. It's not a large sample size.

What makes your opinions more valuable than Phil Shoemaker's, Tim Sundles, Timmy Winslow, Morris Melani or anyone else in Alaska?

Tim Sundles, owner of Buffalobore ammo says how 50 cal handguns "really swat the hell out of them" (brown bears). @ 0:32 below...

The Best Bear Handgun? From A True Alaskan...

Alaskan Talks Bear Attacks and Bear Guns?...

 

[Carnivore hunter]

I had a similar thought about the pistol in my chest rig when fishing. I figured the most likely outcome if charged was that I would be shooting the bear while he was chewing on me.

I don't think you ever shot a brown bear with a 50 caliber handgun. Tim Sundles, Morris Melani, Timmy Winslow have said these handguns will save your life. Again, Tim Sundles has shot lots of brown bears with handguns...

Phil Shoemaker killed a coastal brown bear with a 9mm @ 5:15 in the video below. Phil talks about how his handgun is quicker to maneuver than his big 458 Lott rifle...

 

[JimP]

I had a similar thought about the pistol in my chest rig when fishing. I figured the most likely outcome if charged was that I would be shooting the bear while he was chewing on me.

I've posted this before but when I was on my bear hunt in British Colombia my guide had a 6 shot 44 mag revolver that he carried in a chest holster. I asked him what he was going to use it for if we had a close encounter with a griz. He calmly stated that he was going to shove the pistols barrel into the bears mouth and pull the trigger 6 times.

 

[Daisy]

I think that what you need to do is to book a buffalo hunt over in Africa. Then tell your PH to stay completely out of taking a shot unless his life is threatened. Then with your first shot take a bad one that will likely just make it mad. Put your rifle down and then go into the brush after him with your pistol.

Then if you can come back on here and report the results.

Reading about your list of cartridges is next to a fairy tail. There isn't a cartridge that you listed that you would be able to get off a second aimed shot if you were charged in close quarters. And with using a handgun at a charging animal you would quite likely need two or more shots unless you brained the charging animal.

Why the hostility?

 

[Daisy]

Here is a good article. Handguns are extremely effective against bear attacks regardless of caliber.

Handgun Defenses Against Bear Attacks - 170 Documented Incidents, 98% Effective

There are now 170 documented cases, with 146 of those cases where handguns only are fired in defense against bear attacks. Handguns are effective 98% of the time.

www.ammoland.com

People here get worked up against anything that goes against how they have done it forever. It is hard to get a handgun into Africa, so most don’t do it. If it was easier, it would be a no brainer to have a sidearm also.

 

[JimP]

Why the hostility?

No hostility, but just asking the OP to head to Africa and try his suggestions of using a handgun to stop a charge from a DG animal, and then reporting the results.

From his post he believes that it can be done and after 11 pages he still believes that it can be done. It would be nice for him to relate his first hand experience since he is a believer in it.

 

[Daisy]

Another article with more analysis.

Defense Against Bears with Pistols: 97% Success rate, 37 Incidents

Using a pistol to defend against bear attacks seems to be a viable option.

www.ammoland.com

 

[Daisy]

No hostility, but just asking the OP to head to Africa and try his suggestions of using a handgun to stop a charge from a DG animal, and then reporting the results.

From his post he believes that it can be done and after 11 pages he still believes that it can be done. It would be nice for him to relate his first hand experience since he is a believer in it.

I see and he did go wild on posting.

I will say you also have no experience with handgun stopping a charge in Africa that I have seen. So we have to extrapolate from where it is used which is with bears.

 

[Carnivore hunter]

No hostility, but just asking the OP to head to Africa and try his suggestions of using a handgun to stop a charge from a DG animal, and then reporting the results.

From his post he believes that it can be done and after 11 pages he still believes that it can be done. It would be nice for him to relate his first hand experience since he is a believer in it.

Lynn Thompson did stop a charge from a buffalo with a handgun, 454 Casull. He also got off 4 shots quickly within 3 to 4 seconds...

He also killed a cape buffalo with a spear...

It seems here that if one personally doesn't know about something, never personally heard about it before or never accomplished it themselves then it can't exist to them. There are many people on here who come across as naive and sheltered like using handguns is some unbelievable thing and have no real stopping power. Ever since the S&W 500 came out people have been killing dangerous game with it for almost 25 years.

Just ask around at the singleaction.com and the smith & wesson forum and ask them. The members over there did it themselves. Lots of evidence all over the internet of dangerous game killed quickly with handgun calibers.

 

[Red Leg]

Your "experience" is purely anecdotal, it's only your own personal experience with your eyes only with what you seen which is just anecdotal not scientific. You been to Alaska, you talked to some people, you seen some hunters. It's not a large sample size.

What makes your opinions more valuable than Phil Shoemaker's, Tim Sundles, Timmy Winslow, Morris Melani or anyone else in Alaska?

Tim Sundles, owner of Buffalobore ammo says how 50 cal handguns "really swat the hell out of them" (brown bears). @ 0:32 below...

The Best Bear Handgun? From A True Alaskan...

Alaskan Talks Bear Attacks and Bear Guns?...

LOL. His experience, one of the more accomplished hunters on this forum, is "anecdotal."

Best I can tell, your actual DG experience is totally non-existent. A keyboard expert furiously typing assertions in the face of real world observations. I run into that a lot with respect to basement military experts, though not usually on subjects in this forum.

Unless of course, you would care to detail your dangerous game encounters. I asked for examples of the "many" people you claimed to know who carried a back-up handgun in Africa, and you were suddenly somewhat reticent about those interactions. I am sure your DG experiences would lend value to your observations. On the other hand, if your observations are based purely on your keyboard experience, why should anyone take them seriously?

I have no issue with a handgun for protection as last ditch defense against bear. Particularly if my primary weapon is a flyrod. That said I have only hunted black bear and been around grizzlies in BC where a handgun is not an option for an American. Were I traveling to Alaska to actually hunt a brown bear, I would not bring one. With respect to African game, I see no use for one at all, and I know of few destinations where it would be legal.

 

[Carnivore hunter]

LOL. His experience, one of the more accomplished hunters on this forum, is "anecdotal."

You don't seem to understand what anecdotal is. He like you have posted no evidence, no official govt studies, no academic studies of data of large sample sizes. You make baseless claims and brag about your personal accomplishments and personal lived experience. If you don't personally experience something yourself then you think it never existed and has never happened. It's amazing how you try to ignore the videos of actual people killing cape buffalo with handguns and spears and only focus on me personally and not the evidence. Nice try. You didn't address the actual video evidence. You didn't refute the claims and personal experiences of Lynn Thompson, Tim Sundles, Phil Shoemaker, Timmy Winslow, Morris Melani.

I posted videos/links of other people's lived experiences like in the videos above of professional bear guides (Phil Shoemaker, Timmy Winslow) and the owner of Buffalobore ammo Tim Sundles who owns his own ranch in South Africa. Or, Lynn Thompson who's killed thousands of animals. I also throughout this thread have posted links to official govt studies with data. You brag about yourself. The people I quoted are far more experienced and accomplished than you are. I also never claimed to be any expert, just posting evidence from others that you can't refute.

 

[Carnivore hunter]

Above, Daisy posted a couple links of data collected over the years of handguns that have been effective in killing bears...

Handgun Defenses Against Bear Attacks - 170 Documented Incidents, 98% Effective

There are now 170 documented cases, with 146 of those cases where handguns only are fired in defense against bear attacks. Handguns are effective 98% of the time.

www.ammoland.com

Defense Against Bears with Pistols: 97% Success rate, 37 Incidents

Using a pistol to defend against bear attacks seems to be a viable option.

www.ammoland.com

 

[WAB]

I don't think you ever shot a brown bear with a 50 caliber handgun. Tim Sundles, Morris Melani, Timmy Winslow have said these handguns will save your life. Again, Tim Sundles has shot lots of brown bears with handguns...

Phil Shoemaker killed a coastal brown bear with a 9mm @ 5:15 in the video below. Phil talks about how his handgun is quicker to maneuver than his big 458 Lott rifle...

Have you even been to Alaska? I lived there for years, ran my own boat down the coast, have flown, fished and hunted most of the state. Once again, you call my experience anecdotal, while yours appears nonexistent and based purely on the experience of others.

 

[Red Leg]

You don't seem to understand what anecdotal is. He like you have posted no evidence, no official govt studies, no academic studies of data of large sample sizes. You make baseless claims and brag about your personal accomplishments and personal lived experience. If you don't personally experience something yourself then you think it never existed and has never happened. It's amazing how you try to ignore the videos of actual people killing cape buffalo with handguns and spears and only focus on me personally and not the evidence. Nice try. You didn't address the actual video evidence. You didn't refute the claims and personal experiences of Lynn Thompson, Tim Sundles, Phil Shoemaker, Timmy Winslow, Morris Melani.

I posted videos/links of other people's lived experiences like in the videos above of professional bear guides (Phil Shoemaker, Timmy Winslow) and the owner of Buffalobore ammo Tim Sundles who owns his own ranch in South Africa. Or, Lynn Thompson who's killed thousands of animals. I also throughout this thread have posted links to official govt studies with data. You brag about yourself. The people I quoted are far more experienced and accomplished than you are. I also never claimed to be any expert, just posting evidence from others that you can't refute.

As I suspected, you have no personal experience with which to critically balance what you find on the internet. Because you clearly do not value the real world familiarity of those who do have such experiences, then I I would suggest those people would be far better off ignoring you. You clearly have zero intent of trying to benefit from those experiences and nothing to offer them.. The internet world labels such behavior a troll. Fortunately, the moderator has provided me with an ignore option.