Best caliber for cape buffalo

[sgt_zim]

Would say so....they are a firearm and not on your visitors permit....

In the US anyway, front-stuffers are not legally firearms even if they rolled off the factory floor yesterday.

 

[spike.t]

In the US anyway, front-stuffers are not legally firearms even if they rolled off the factory floor yesterday.

Are here

 

[HookMeUpII]

I wonder how many cow buffalo poachers kill?
Because we usually only see or hear about the trophy stuff they kill , all those wire snares and car spring leg traps are pretty much indistinguishable on what they catch.

Probably a whole lot more than the bulls. Similar size, maybe a slightly better attitude...meat is meat. When I was in RSA, my PH told me in regards to PG (not DG) the most poached animals were warthogs, impala, etc. When you're starving, and come across something edible, you go for it. They are not cherry picking 40"+ kudu or sable.

Once again, not glorifying poacher or anything.

They probably kill whatever presents an opportunity. Young bulls, cows with calves, old bulls, and everything in between.

 

[Franco]

How cool would it be to be able to buy one of those muskets and bring it with you into the US/Canada. I wonder if there any laws that would prevent you taking one out of that country.

Good question. There's certainly enough of them around. I'm not that familiar but I think there's a Curio & Relic classification here in the US. How or if that would apply in Africa is another question. If they classify it as a firearm regardless of age, and its' illegal to own - well there ya go.

Still would be cool.

 

[sgt_zim]

Good question. There's certainly enough of them around. I'm not that familiar but I think there's a Curio & Relic classification here in the US. How or if that would apply in Africa is another question. If they classify it as a firearm regardless of age, and its' illegal to own - well there ya go.

Still would be cool.

C&R only applies to firearms where GCA '68 would be applicable. Front stuffers are not considered "guns" by federal law.

 

[Franco]

C&R only applies to firearms where GCA '68 would be applicable. Front stuffers are not considered "guns" by federal law.

So, to quote the movie Armageddon, "Is this good, or bad?"

Are you saying if you could get it out, getting it in would not be an issue?

Thanks

 

[Challer]

Anyone have a favorite load for 500Gr rebar?

 

[rookhawk]

Pondoro Taylor was probably right with this general statement:

Any bullet over 40 caliber that hits the animal at 1900FPS is ideal.

This leaves all the wiggle room for us to debate religion, motor oil, 450/400 vs 404J, 450NE vs .458WM, etc, etc.

The real answer is anything bigger than a .375HH has a huge upside for Buffalo. I'm uncertain if there is that much difference among all the .40 cal+ options out there after that.

 

[spike.t]

Probably a whole lot more than the bulls. Similar size, maybe a slightly better attitude...meat is meat. When I was in RSA, my PH told me in regards to PG (not DG) the most poached animals were warthogs, impala, etc. When you're starving, and come across something edible, you go for it. They are not cherry picking 40"+ kudu or sable.

Once again, not glorifying poacher or anything.

They probably kill whatever presents an opportunity. Young bulls, cows with calves, old bulls, and everything in between.

Warthog and impala probably because they are usually the most numerous....but snares aren't exactly species specific, unless after big game and heavy duty cable is used.....but that still kills small stuff as well....

 

[HookMeUpII]

Warthog and impala probably because they are usually the most numerous....but snares aren't exactly species specific, unless after big game and heavy duty cable is used.....but that still kills small stuff as well....

Very good point. Snares hopefully, for them, catches something edible and that's that. I believe, but could be wrong, the area we were in was more of poachers breaking in through the fence somewhere, shooting something, and getting out.

 

[Nhoro]

I think we all missed a trick. All of our debate on FMJ vs copper vs brass. Flat nose vs round and then the size of the meplat. All have us have been shown how it is done. Steel bullet with 100 % melatonin- zero deformation. They come in a variety of calibres- 1/2 ", 3/4 " and 1 1/4 " for real charge stopping performance.

 

[spike.t]

Very good point. Snares hopefully, for them, catches something edible and that's that. I believe, but could be wrong, the area we were in was more of poachers breaking in through the fence somewhere, shooting something, and getting out.

We have them using both.....and not sure what you mean by " snares hopefully for them catches something edible and that's that".....you any idea of the shit snares cause?....

 

[HookMeUpII]

We have them using both.....and not sure what you mean by " snares hopefully for them catches something edible and that's that".....you any idea of the shit snares cause?....

In no way am I diminishing snares. I fully understand how awful they are for the wildlife.

Just trying to make a point of the unfortunate, poacher mindset.

I am sure they wreak all sorts of havoc on the animals. I've seen enough, even on here, with regards to game getting caught in them and PH's finding them all over the place.

 

[spike.t]

Just trying to make a point of the unfortunate, poacher mindset.

What mindset is that?....

 

[HookMeUpII]

What mindset is that?....

Kill everything indiscriminately? Where are we going with this?

 

[spike.t]

Kill everything indiscriminately? Where are we going with this?

Ok yup ...and Was trying to workout your opinion on poaching....to start with it seemed to me that you were OK with it in certain instances...possibly I interpreted it wrong....having to put up with it..deal with it on a regular basis it hits a raw nerve with me...had to shoot 3 sable bulls with snares on legs last year in space of slightly less than 2 weeks ....snares, poison and shooting...we get it all...

 

[towserthemouser]

And if that failed you could use that freaking ridiculous hat as a backup, I know it's killing me to look at it.

That, sir, is a mighty fine party hat.

 

[towserthemouser]

What mindset is that?....

I'd say the mindset of a poacher is not just one mindset. The unifying theme is that it's the mindset of a criminal.

I suppose some do it for subsistence/survival. Not ok, and there are better and legal ways to survive.

Some do it for profit motive.

Some do it for mojo/status "Look what an outlaw and a tough guy I am."

Some do it for an illicit thrill I guess. Here in the US we have a lot of poachers who are white collar guys with good jobs. But they want to go shoot canvasbacks over a catfish pond, or fish for Goliath grouper with big giant electric reels, just to take a photo they can't show to everybody, and then kill a fish that they can't take back to the dock without getting caught. Or shoot a bald eagle because he's killing our quail. Or spotlight a big whitetail buck and shoot him from the road at night. Or shoot 20 mallards when their limit is 3, because they're flying well this morning, and it's been a slow season up to now. Et cetera, et cetera.

Maybe some are rebels/anarchists who don't think the government has any right to make laws or tell them what to do.

Maybe some are psychopaths who do it just to kill something.

Maybe there are other reasons I haven't thought about.

Ethical questions of different styles and types of hunting can be debated, but the law is the law, and if you break it you're poaching.

Bottom line for me: Poachers are not hunters. They are the antithesis and the natural enemies of hunters, maybe even a greater enemy than the anti's. As hunters we should not tolerate or excuse it. Not for one nanosecond. We should call it out when we see it, and we should support all efforts to stop it. It's not ok.

 

[skydiver386]

Y

That, sir, is a mighty fine party hat.

Y'all don't know nothin!

I was taught you need a Primary, Alternate, Contingency and Emergency Plans.

The Primary is to shoot the rifle.

The Alternate is to use the bayonet.

The Contingency is to butt stroke it.

The Emergency is the hat.

You see, I grew up in an era when Rasslin was REAL, and in the WWF we had the BUSHWHACKERS.

One of their best moves, was for one to use the other as a Battering Ram.

So here's the PACE Plan if you convince your PH you want to use such a rig on a Buff hunt.

You shoot the Buff with the rifle, stab it with the bayonet, butt stroke it in the head, the PH can use you and your pointy hat as a battering ram, then with the Buff distracted he and the trackers beat feet to the local trophy shop to purchase the Darwin Award you so richly deserve.

 

[HookMeUpII]

Ok yup ...and Was trying to workout your opinion on poaching....to start with it seemed to me that you were OK with it in certain instances...possibly I interpreted it wrong....having to put up with it..deal with it on a regular basis it hits a raw nerve with me...had to shoot 3 sable bulls with snares on legs last year in space of slightly less than 2 weeks ....snares, poison and shooting...we get it all...

I think a lot of people try to understand why someone would shoot a cape buffalo with a musket loaded with rebar. It's obviously unsportsmanlike/inhumane, dangerous, but also because that's all they have. Dangerous is the term I think people hang onto.

It's a classic case of the end doesn't justify the means.

A lot of people find it crazy they take the risks they do. I've seen it all over. Fishing, for example. Americans and other developed countries will spend literally millions of dollars on a sportfishing yachts, fuel, tackle, terminal tackle, etc. Then you have the guys in carved out homemade outrigger canoe handline fishing marlin with a roll of 300# Ande mono and a lure made out of a water bottle combined with some pieces of spare plastic.

I'm not at all OK with poaching. There is a bigger problem that leads to it which, quite honestly, I don't have the answer to solving. Once again, the end doesn't justify the means.