Has someone here on AH who hunted Tiger in Vietnam?

[Wheels]

I've been to Vietnam, Five times in the past five years, and I have plans to visit again this December for my second trip this year, if the country opens to foreign visitors between now and December 2020. I've been spearfishing in Indonesia twice, and I plan to go spearfishing in Vietnam during my next visit. If you think about it, spearfishing is hunting. I'd really like to find a way to get permission to hunt other animals there as well, but I seriously doubt that will happen any time soon, if ever. At least I can hunt with a speargun for some delicious fish.

My girlfriend's cousin is in the Indonesian military. He told me a story about going hunting for wild boar on the island of Papua, Indonesia, during survival training. I asked him if he thought he could arrange for me to go hunting there with him, someday. He said it was possible, but very dangerous. We would need to meet with the local tribe leader and ask for permission, and considering I'm a westerner, we need to be very alert for potential terrorist cell attacks.

Please post pics of your spearfishing trips when you get back!

 

[Bule Jagter]

Here I am with a leatherjacket fish, I shot in Indonesia in 2019. I will be sure to post pictures after returning from spearfishing in Vietnam, and Indonesia late this year, or early next year.

 

[AB2506]

I read Jack Acheson's autobiography. He fought in the Korean War. Although he tried in his downtime, he was unsuccesful in his tiger hunts. He said that if there unrecovered bodies in brushy ravines, the tigers would feed on them.

 

[juan pablo pozzi]

The great alaskan master guide Phil Shoemaker told me that the attacks by maneaters were frequent and death bodies are often eaten by tigers. One marine was eaten and another scalped.

 

[Safari Dave]

I have a friend who killed one while on patrol during the war in the late 1960's.

 

[Mark A Ouellette]

http://www.ichiban1.org/html/stories/story_46_tiger.htm


While we all know that Vietnam was a very unusual war, I doubt that many people would believe that Vietnam's tiger population was a beneficiary. But during the Vietnam wars, it was claimed that tiger populations and tiger attacks increased dramatically due to the many unburied bodies. After all, tigers are known scavengers that feed at old kills, whether their own or not. There were also many tiger sightings by U.S. troops.

One of the most unusual tiger stories to arise was the case of the 3rd Recon Battalion Marine who survived a tiger attack while on patrol in Quang Tri Province in 1968, near where a Marine had allegedly* been killed by a tiger in November 1967. The 400 pound man-eating tiger attacked swiftly and silently, and the first warning the six-man patrol had was screaming from one of the four sleeping Marines. Startled while feeding on the man by the other Marines, the tiger started dragging its prey away before it was killed. The lucky victim was medivaced suffering lacerations and bites on the neck.

In another incident in 1969, a Marine in an ambush position in dense bush felt a tug on his leg and saw a large shape in the black night. After radioing in movement around them and despite being 100% alert, the tiger stealthily returned and grabbed another patrol member before being blown away by five excited Marines. Their buddy was released just slightly the worse for wear. According to SOP, they relocated their ambush, taking the dead 400 pound tiger with them so that they could extract it the next day. Alas, the monsoon meant that choppers couldn't get up that day, so their focus shifted to preserving the corpse before it started rotting. Fortunately, one of the fellows in the rear radioed that tannic acid, used for curing hides, was contained in urine. The next day, a very smelly carcass made it back to base still in shape for photographs.

Around the third week of May 1970, two weeks after the LZ Betty perimeter was penetrated by enemy soldiers in two places, Frenchy Lagimoniere and two other soldiers of B Company, 1st Battalion (Mechanized), 50th Infantry were assigned to pull night guard duty on Bunker 4. They manned the bunker at around 6 p.m., checked their ammunition, did their prep work and settled in for the night. At around 11 p.m., Frenchy was pulling duty and heard some noise coming from out in front of the bunker. He alerted the others and searched carefully through the starlight scope to find the source.

He remembered that night, "As I was looking for whatever made the noise a dark blur flashed in front of my lens followed by a white blur. This happened a couple of times while I was trying to get a fix on what was going on. Then I caught sight of a lizard about 6 feet long trying to scurry away from something. As I looked to my right, I saw a tiger crouched down lying in the elephant grass. Every time the lizard would move the tiger would pounce on it and slap it around like a toy animal. This happened over and over again. I pointed this out to the other guys on the bunker and we took turns watching. During the half hour this went on, others from the greenline also observed the tiger. Then it was gone."

It's a shame that the tiger hadn't come by a few weeks earlier while the NVA were sneaking up and played "cat and mouse" with Charlie.

Rick Leland of B Company now picks up the story. "A day or two later, we were on patrol in our APCs in a area of fairly heavy woods and underbrush about 25 kilometers outside of LZ Betty. Late in the afternoon our LT saw something up ahead of us and told as all to stop. I remember seeing a flash of orange and we all agreed that it was a tiger! Man, we were excited and we thought and talked about it all the rest of the day.

"That night we set out a mechanic ambush. Late that night we heard it go off, so next morning we hurried out but all we saw was a blood trail. The LT and our platoon sergeant agreed we should stick around. We patrolled in the area that day and then set out another ambush close to the last one. Well, that night we heard it go off again so the next morning one APC went out to investigate. They radioed back and said we would not believe what they had! It was the tiger, which had walked into the trip wire and been killed outright!

"Soon the word spread and we had a bunch of choppers carrying Brass and other higher ups flying in all morning long. We all took pictures and then hauled the tiger off on an APC." Frenchy added, "Everybody in the world wanted to take a picture of that cat."

John (The Mole) Williams, a B Company APC driver in the field at the time, added, "After the tiger was killed in a night claymore trip wire ambush, we wanted to take it back to base on the APC, but they made us take it off the track. By the time we got to camp dragging it with a cable or rope, all we had left was a tiger tail to talk about."

Rick observed, "I was excited and sad at the same time to see such a beautiful animal dead. It left me thinking that nothing escapes war. When I got back to States my Mother had one of the pictures blown up and I have it on my wall today."

Photographs of B Company's Tiger, 1970. (Click on photo for enlargement from Rick's photo album.)

Rick Leland's humorous explanation.
Ray Wilford's version.
In the end, it's all the same.
Webmaster's Addendum, 2006: Sometimes the truth comes out in a new or "fresh" viewpoint. Many of us have experienced shortfalls in accurate remembrances as the years pile up from the late 1960's and early 1970's....or, maybe the previous story ending was simply a nice "cover-up" ~Webmaster's grin~....Here's what happened to the Tiger according to "B" Company Platoon Sergeant Darwin "Scott" Stamper!

Staff Sergeant Darwin "Scotty" Stamper


We started using mechanical ambushes and thought they were great because we could set out a half dozen Claymore Mines on a trail and rig them to fire all at once. We could easily go somewhere and set up a night position and wait. If there was an explosion that night we could go back the next day and recover the bodies of the enemy. I can remember one night we had set out some mechanical ambushes and set up that night and waited for something to happen. Well it did! We heard an explosion in the distance and knew we had bagged something, either a VC or an animal. The next morning the platoon got up and we went out to the ambush site and found the body of a dead VC. The platoon Leader, 1st Lt. James MacQueen, and myself decided to set up another mechanical ambush around the body hoping to catch any of the dead VCs unit who might come to recover the body. We set up close by.

We heard another explosion early in the morning and waited for the sun to come up. When we went in to check out the kill zone we found the body of a very large beautiful tiger! He must have decided to drag off the body of the dead VC for a snack, but he set off the ambush. There wasn´t much damage to the pelt and it looked as though the concussion from the six Claymore Mines killed him. We put him on the front of the track behind the trimvane as you see from the pictures. We had planned to take him back with us and have a rug made out of the pelt and hang it in the club.

Well, by about 10 A.M. he started getting pretty "ripe" and we did not have anyone that could dress him out, or wanted to. Just as I was considering dumping him a chopper started circling over us while we were on the move and the pilot called on our frequency and asked me if that was a tiger on the front of the APC. I told him it was and he asked me what we were going to do with it. I told him what we had planned to do with it but that it was starting to get pretty ripe. He asked me what we wanted for it and I told him he could have it for 15 cases of beer to be delivered when we got back to Phan Thiet. We made the deal and we secured an LZ and he came in and got the tiger. When we got back to the Company Area we had the 15 cases of beer waiting for us!

@Wheels Darn, that was a great war story! Thanks!!!

 

[Hunter-Habib]

The great alaskan master guide Phil Shoemaker told me that the attacks by maneaters were frequent and death bodies are often eaten by tigers. One marine was eaten and another scalped.

He’s a true gentleman and shot one Indo-Chinese tiger himself there during his tour. He wrote the foreword of my autobiography.

 

[Tiger2001]

A little off the subject, but Vietnam related: PBS TV is currently airing the Ken Burns documentary series on Vietnam. Ken Burns is well known for his Civil War documentary and several others. Since my wife is out of town, I sort of binge watched the entire 10 part, 18 hour series in about a week. Well worth watching and really causes you to stop and think.

Not off topic at all. If you watch that series they have a few short extra episodes included. One of them is a vet talking about he and his buddy shot a tiger at the same time, skinned it and agreed they would each share the pelt for one half of a year!

 

[Tiger2001]

I unfortunately do not have photos to share but in my previous career I had the opportunity to cross paths and work with many Vietnam-era veterans. Three stood out for their tiger stores. The first was a WWII vet named Ralph who also did some specialized work with the Hmong in Laos. During a slide show once there was a photo him with a tiger slung over the hood of his Willy's Jeep. Ralph told me it had been menacing the villagers he was was working with and he used his personal .375 H&H to kill it. Was much easier to bring in your personal weapons back then. I believe it was around 1961-62. Second story was a Special Forces guy named Al Kent. He had served in Vietnam a couple of tours but prior to that had lived there in the 1950's as a dependent as his dad worked of USAID. Al said when he was 16 he was able to go on a tiger hunt. They shot a deer and dragged its carcas around by jeep to get the scent of blood in the air before hanging the deer from a tree. Al sat in a machan on the ground and when the tiger arrived they used a battery to turn on a flood light. He shot it with a 30-06. Final story was a Special Forces Sergeant named Ray Garafolo. He did three or four tours in Vietnam and sometime in the early 1960's he said all hell had broken loose outside his camp. Thought it was a VC attack but then found out that a tiger--with eye shine so far apart--had appeared and had startled his US and ARVN soldiers enough they started firing full auto into the jungle. Never got the tiger but it apparently had killed villagers from behind and just ate their brains. All incredible accounts from truly great Americans that have sadly all left us. It was real pleasure to know them and to hear these stories. If anyone is interested. Find a copy of "Asian Jungle-African Bush" by Colonel Charles Askins. He covers his time hunting in South Vietnam in the 1950s'.

 

[Hunt anything]

I didn’t read the whole thread so apologies if this has been brought up.
There is a book called “I Killed for a Living” I don’t remember the author. It details hunting in Vietnam up until the US involvement ramps up. Its good up to the end when he basically condemns hunting. All of the big stuff is covered, elephant, tiger, gaur and on down.
He and his wife immigrated to the US after the war, I think his wife was the sister in law of Diem.
When I get home I can look up the authors name in case anyone wants to read it.

 

[Hunter-Habib]

I didn’t read the whole thread so apologies if this has been brought up.
There is a book called “I Killed for a Living” I don’t remember the author. It details hunting in Vietnam up until the US involvement ramps up. Its good up to the end when he basically condemns hunting. All of the big stuff is covered, elephant, tiger, gaur and on down.
He and his wife immigrated to the US after the war, I think his wife was the sister in law of Diem.
When I get home I can look up the authors name in case anyone wants to read it.

Etienne Oggerrei. Was deported out of Vietnam in November, 1961. He hunted in Vietnam from 1940 until February, 1961. First as a meat hunter for the French garrisons from 1940 to 1956. Then, as a Safari guide from 1956 to 1961.

In 1956, the Vietnamese passed laws banning French people from owning firearms. He was legally allowed to keep two rifles since he opened a professional hunting outfit ("Seladang Safaris") and was earning revenue for the government. Until his affair with the First Lady's sister made him enemies with the South Vietnamese government. Then, in February of 1961... his firearms (both the two legal ones & a couple he had kept illegally) were seized again and he was deported.

 

[steve white]

Oggerrei described the pre-war Vietnam as almost equal to Africa in its fauna. Not just tigers--but think about how much it takes to keep tigers fed!
WHY could not Vietnam be persuaded to restore that still rural part of their country and introduce hunting as a viable source of revenue for the country? Who would partner with them to flesh out the vision? Seems like a real opportunity, and a boon for world wildlife.

 

[Hunter-Habib]

Oggerrei described the pre-war Vietnam as almost equal to Africa in its fauna. Not just tigers--but think about how much it takes to keep tigers fed!
WHY could not Vietnam be persuaded to restore that still rural part of their country and introduce hunting as a viable source of revenue for the country? Who would partner with them to flesh out the vision? Seems like a real opportunity, and a boon for world wildlife.

Because they're communists who associate gun ownership and hunting with the "Evil French Colonists".

I know a couple of people who still illegally own firearms and hunt there. But they're poachers of passion. Not commercial poachers. So I get along well with them.

 

[Tiger2001]

He’s a true gentleman and shot one Indo-Chinese tiger himself there during his tour. He wrote the foreword of my autobiography.

And where Sir does one find your autobiography? I'm sure it would be an interesting read!

 

[Rimbaud]

Etienne Oggerrei. Was deported out of Vietnam in November, 1961. He hunted in Vietnam from 1940 until February, 1961. First as a meat hunter for the French garrisons from 1940 to 1956. Then, as a Safari guide from 1956 to 1961.

In 1956, the Vietnamese passed laws banning French people from owning firearms. He was legally allowed to keep two rifles since he opened a professional hunting outfit ("Seladang Safaris") and was earning revenue for the government. Until his affair with the First Lady's sister made him enemies with the South Vietnamese government. Then, in February of 1961... his firearms (both the two legal ones & a couple he had kept illegally) were seized again and he was deported.

Thanks for sharing. Found his obituary. Click the link if interested. https://www.lafayettefh.com/obituaries/etienne-oggeri

 

[Hunter-Habib]

And where Sir does one find your autobiography? I'm sure it would be an interesting read!

I believe @PerH can help you out there.
P.S: No need to call me "Sir". Just "Habib" will do.

 

[steve white]

Thanks for sharing. Found his obituary. Click the link if interested. https://www.lafayettefh.com/obituaries/etienne-oggeri

He also wrote the book, "I Killed For A Living"

 

[TnKen]

I read a story one time about some LRRPs in Vietnam that were on a recon of a NVA R&R area. They came upon some punji stakes that were deployed in a way they had never seen before. They then found tiger tracks and decided that the stakes weren’t anti personnel, they were anti tiger. They said they were more worried about a tiger getting them at night than the NVA.

 

[Altitude sickness]

What a grand animal they are