Would you change your plans if you don’t like a outfitter website?

[pilar]

Chad and I have been interviewing different outfits for a combined buffalo & mixed plains game hunt
we recently received a good offer and where sent a website and success photos
some of the photos are of hunters with lions killed with crossbows, for reasons I don’t want to debate
I don’t think I would want to do a safari with those ranches.
I didn’t contemplate this possibility when starting the projected hunt , am I off base to stop communicating with the outfits?

 

[Pilgrim]

If I'm understanding this correctly, you like almost everything about the outfitter except that they accommodated somebody else on a crossbow lion hunt? For whatever reasons you don't want to debate, I'm wondering how somebody else's hunt would affect your experience? What I see is an outfitter who is trying to give his clientele the hunting experience they hope for, perhaps this could be looked at as a plus.

 

[375Fox]

I don’t think your question is worded correctly. If I found something that would make me question an outfitter’s ethics or definition of fair chase I’d move on.

 

[Andrew62]

Perhaps I am missing something, but I take it you are not happy they allow people to hunt with crossbows? If that is the case, if it were me, I could care less how anyone else hunted, I only care about how I wish to hunt, so if you are happy with their price, accommodations look good, book away. If however, this is a sticking point for you, then you need to book where you feel comfortable. Lots of great outfits out there, it's not like there are only 1 or 2 to choose from.

 

[pilar]

I don’t think your question is worded correctly. If I found something that would make me question an outfitter’s ethics or definition of fair chase I’d move on.

Yes my words were tip toeing around and should have been more clear

 

[BeeMaa]

Yes my words were tip toeing around and should have been more clear

Please make your questions more clear and we will do what we can to assist.

 

[pilar]

Please make your questions more clear and we will do what we can to assist.

I don’t want to hunt on a place that turns out animals for a hunt , it’s just not my thing
or something we are looking for.

 

[LP67]

Maybe give more background where you coming from, for example:
" been to Africa before dont want to ......"
" I dont care for small hunt area or high fence ...... exct"
Just my 2 cents

 

[BeeMaa]

I don’t want to hunt on a place that turns out animals for a hunt , it’s just not my thing
or something we are looking for.

This is called "put and take" and is done with regularity on some ranches. You need to be asking the right questions and the link below will get you started. Don't be afraid to ask direct questions (with kindness) of your outfitter and you should be getting direct answers as well. If you are not happy with how they conduct business, let them know in a nice way and move on.

You are looking for a "self-sustaining" herd of a given animal vs "put & take".

You should be happy with who you are going to hunt with and how it will be conducted. AH and it's members are here to help.

https://www.africahunting.com/threads/better-questions-to-ask-when-looking-for-a-hunt.23825/

 

[LP67]

I don’t want to hunt on a place that turns out animals for a hunt , it’s just not my thing
or something we are looking for.

Makes sense, also check references here on AH and ask your outfit to forward you the last 10 or so hunters thats been with them

 

[375Fox]

Makes sense, also check references here on AH and ask your outfit to forward you the last 10 or so hunters thats been with them

If a person has an ethical problem with CBL/put and take hunting it really doesn’t matter what references who don’t have that objection say. I’ll draw a distinction between those outfitters that organize the shoots for CBL quietly because there is a demand, but I’d question the ethics of the outfitters who make it a major part of their business. It’s difficult to tell a recently stocked buffalo from one that’s grown up on property. You are trusting the outfitters integrity what he tells you is true. If something makes a hunter question if it’s a good fit for them it’s better to move on.

 

[Safari Dave]

If I didn't agree with a safari company's "ethics", then I would simply part ways with no comment.

I think all of us have our own, unique, set of values when it comes to hunting.



For me, at my stage of life, the only DG I would hunt in RSA would be leopard, hippo, and crocs, unless I could hunt on property with no high fence.


If a client wanted to take a lion behind a fence, I would not condemn the client, nor the safari company.



To "each his own" as far as I'm concerned. For me, RSA is for PG, unless a unique situation comes along while I am there, and I am afforded the opportunity of a lifetime.

 

[mark-hunter]

If I am to look for hunt, with literally hundreds on outfitters on internet, without any source of other information, I would do like this.

1. select best web sites of my interest, which includes: price list, and information about eventual membership to national and international hunting organizations. Like SCI. This will rightfully or wrongly, remove poor web sites from the list of options.

2. After, and when the prices were checked as acceptable, than I would start communication with specifics of hunt wanted. Which would include references and double checking the references.

In these two points mentioned above: membership to international and national hunting organizations is giving a signal of accepting some general rules of conduct and ethics of operation, or level of responsibility, although even that is without guarantee.

Web page (which must be designed and paid for) indicates effort to accommodate clients and give good presentation of outfit and company public image.
Having only Facebook page, which is for free, indicates corner cuts in operations, or small family business. (just to get it over with to bring few clients for a season)

This all is only an indication which does not need to be true, but raises possible red flags.
I would say that suffix on email adress is also important, google dot come, is not professional in my opinion.

I am aware that maybe some good outfitters would be omitted from my research just because of poorly designed web site, and communication options. But that is how it is. PR is important.

I am also aware that good scammers can make good web page, but those operations will not run for years. So experience of outfitter and decades long business tradition is next indication. (to be checked)

having said that, I came upon to my outfitter based on recommendation from a friend, and based on hunt description he provided. A word of mouth. Not based on internet research. So, in real life i went that route.

 

[sureshot375]

If I am to look for hunt, with literally hundreds on outfitters on internet, without any source of other information, I would do like this.

1. select best web sites of my interest, which includes: price list, and information about eventual membership to national and international hunting organizations. Like SCI. This will rightfully or wrongly, remove poor web sites from the list of options.

2. After, and when the prices were checked as acceptable, than I would start communication with specifics of hunt wanted. Which would include references and double checking the references.

In these two points mentioned above: membership to international and national hunting organizations is giving a signal of accepting some general rules of conduct and ethics of operation, or level of responsibility, although even that is without guarantee.

Web page (which must be designed and paid for) indicates effort to accommodate clients and give good presentation of outfit and company public image.
Having only Facebook page, which is for free, indicates corner cuts in operations, or small family business. (just to get it over with to bring few clients for a season)

This all is only an indication which does not need to be true, but raises possible red flags.
I would say that suffix on email adress is also important, google dot come, is not professional in my opinion.

I am aware that maybe some good outfitters would be omitted from my research just because of poorly designed web site, and communication options. But that is how it is. PR is important.

I am also aware that good scammers can make good web page, but those operations will not run for years. So experience of outfitter and decades long business tradition is next indication. (to be checked)

having said that, I came upon to my outfitter based on recommendation from a friend, and based on hunt description he provided. A word of mouth. Not based on internet research. So, in real life i went that route.

I don’t agree with your logic here relating to a website. The absence of an expensive website doesn’t mean they “cut corners”.

As a practical matter there are terrible outfitters with great websites. There are also great outfitters with minimal web presence because they have built a solid business and don’t need an expensive website for marketing.

Wouldn’t do business with a g mail account?

In my personal business right now my website is down. It doesn’t matter because I’m really good at what I do. I stay busy based on word of mouth.

Meanwhile there are a number of god awful people in the same business who have very nice websites.

If you choose a safari based on the best website you are basically shopping for the best website, not the best safari.

 

[Philip Glass]

Chad and I have been interviewing different outfits for a combined buffalo & mixed plains game hunt
we recently received a good offer and where sent a website and success photos
some of the photos are of hunters with lions killed with crossbows, for reasons I don’t want to debate
I don’t think I would want to do a safari with those ranches.
I didn’t contemplate this possibility when starting the projected hunt , am I off base to stop communicating with the outfits?

What you want to know is where will you be hunting. Most outfitters these days hunt here and here and don't necessarily have a home base. So those lion pics can likely be from a totally different property.
Keep doing homework!

 

[62flint]

When I look at a outfitters web site, for Africa or elsewhere. That is often the first step for me in choosing a outfitter.
If they do not have the time to update pictures, or have a decent, neat appearing operation on the web site. How will they be on a daily basis?
For me the first step is web site search/ show meet / or recommendation from a previous client.
Then I look at the web site and internet search. The internet has a way of not being very friendly to sub par operations and even some decent operations. One dissatisfied customer will spread the word.
Last I will speak to them 2-6 times before finally deciding . If I am travelling a long ways I do not want to end up in camp with a leaking tent and eating potted meat unless I know ahead of time,
AS for a crossbow or any other hunting tackle, If the hunt was legal who am I to judge your methods? I may think Buffalo hunting with a spear is dumb and would not do it but I am sure a ancestor at some point has tried it, and if you do please video it.

 

[MarkB]

If I understand your redefined point correct.

IMO it will be almost impossible to confirm with an outfitter in SA that all the animals you are hunting were bred, born and live on the property you are hunting. Its a subject never spoken about. Just look on here at the pages and pages of that specific question threads and see how many outfitters offer answers.

I am not saying all are put and take, there are some free range wild born, including buffalo adjacent to parks, but they are fewer than the other option. If not born on property is a show stopper then I would look elsewhere.

There are many good hunts in SA that are on vast large wild areas but all or most are fenced of some sort and many animals are bred. Not sure of your PG list but for a no fence truly wild buff hunt I fully enjoyed Zim.

Its your hunt, book with an outfitter that checks and CONFIRMS all your "must have items".

MB

 

[Boyd Brooks]

Personally, I booked with an outfitter I saw in person at more than one African hunting expo. I don’t think I would have ever considered booking based on a website and references only. For me it was a toss up between two outfits, and I choose the one that I had the best rapport with, but also offered everything I wanted in a hunting experience.

 

[mark-hunter]

I don’t agree with your logic here relating to a website.

Well, let me explain.
I live in faraway country with low internet culture. (Yes everybody there has mobile phone and PC at home, its not an issue), but company PR and marketing culture in consumer society is something that still has to be developed. marketing and PR are something to learn in school, college or at least on specialized courses.

For majority of hunting organizations (and sport shooting clubs), they simply dont care. Like virtually 90% of them they dont have internet signature at all. As a result, there are hunting agencies who provide service finding a hunt for interested hunter with additional cost with the same hunting clubs who dont bother to advertise anything.
As a general rule, agenices have web pages at least in acceptable level, they understand internet value, PR and marketing as it brings direct revenue.. (but with agency services, hunters are at loss, due to additional fee to be paid)

In business, so not related to sport shooting or hunting, internet presentation is important, and generally the better the business, better internet signature. Thats my local experience.
Same is for gun shops in my country. Updated and accurate information on items on stock and updated prices, generally means better gun shop in real life. Which I can confirm 100%.

However, when I was looking for my safari outfitter, as I also understand difference between real life, and internet, I took advice from a friend who hunted there and gave me full review and information of what to expect. So I went there. BUt looking for a hunt, in different continent with actually no local knowledge, is not so easy. Internet is good source, but has to be carefully utilized.

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

Being located in Zim has some disadvantages. Proper web site designers are one of them. Depending on the size of a Safari company a high dollar web site and shows add a great deal of cost to each safari.

Every year we sell out on our quota by offering number one service at the lowest possible price, 20% over our cost.

Lon