My Take on Dangerous Game Scopes

[Philip Glass]

The premise seems to be more of a "take on dangerous game rifles and scope combinations" and outfitting your rifle to be able to take better advantage of opportunities that may not be on dangerous game...

A croc is not DG? There were mentions of two hunts where the "classic DG" scope ruined the croc hunt!

 

[Philip Glass]

1. I was a bit surprised to learn that illuminated scopes have been around long enough to now be considered "classic".

2. A discussion on "Dangerous Game Scopes" is a tough subject to cover because of the variability of DG types and hunting scenarios. To include non-DG into the scenarios makes the discussion tougher to cover.

3. Thinking more about the subject, I'm wondering if the discussion would be better served with a focus on class 1 vs class 2 DG scenarios.

Again what DG hunt does not include some PG? I am not sure if some of you are thinking this through!

 

[Philip Glass]

Hello Philip,
Thank you for posting the video. Nice trophy room by the way!
If the offer stands, I would like to take you up on your offer to come shoot and use some of the scopes shown and mentioned in your video. I would be happy to bring a few examples along with me for you to examine and use. In my travel kit, I can offer up any example of the current Zeiss product lineup (USA) you wish to examine and use. My recommendation for a "dangerous" game setup would be the Zeiss V8 1.1-8x24. The fiber optic illumination, with motion sensor, is the finest true daylight illumination on the market. Also, if true life like color rendition and maximum resolution are important to you this is the scope you should consider.

All the best,

EJ

Thanks for your kind comments. Sure I'd love to check out the latest Zeiss! Maybe we have to plan an AH get together.

 

[Philip Glass]

@Philip Glass thanks for the video. The two cameras at different angle, certainly gives it a professional quality. While I agree with a lot of your comments and observations, I do want to offer some differing views on a couple of things.

The term "light gathering" is a bit of a misnomer and firmly embedded into "conventional wisdom." The real physical property that matters on light transmission in a scope or binoculars is "exit pupil." A variable scope will have a range of exit pupil, since it is the diameter of the objective lens divided by the power setting. So it you have a 1-8X by 24mm, the range of the exit pupil will be 3 to 24. So if the scope is cranked up to 8 power (exit pupil = 24mm / 8 = 3) and there isn't enough light to see, then lowering the power a bit will increase the exit pupil and at some point you might be able to see. Yes, a larger objective lens helps to give you sufficient exit pupil at higher power settings. The human eye becomes the limiting factor, particularly as we age. That limit varies, but for 60+ old geezers, it's around 4 to 5mm exit pupil.

One other comment on "Leupold." For whatever reason, many Americans (myself included) grew up pronouncing it "Lee-O-Pold." Several years ago, while watching TV hunting shows, I noticed the Leupold commercials pronounced it "Lou Pold." I figured they were getting it right and the Lee-O-Pold we all learned from Granddad and dad was incorrect.

Ha ha! Yes, in Texas we are still unsure of the pronunciation!

 

[Philip Glass]

Enjoyed the video. Apparently I purchased exactly the wrong scope (Leopold VX6 1x6x24) and exactly the wrong rings (QD) for my Ruger Safari Magnum Project. That's OK since prefer iron sights. I am curious that Philip's Ruger QD's don't retain zero, I haven't had that problem with my No 1; it has an AimPoint H30L in QD's. Maybe that's not a good example since I hardly ever mount it on the rifle.

I am just relating my experience and frustration with the QD rings. They got off on several occasions during a safari. My point is to get to know your equipment And make sure it works. Don't just go buy something and state that it is the best even though it's never been beat around over seas.

 

[Philip Glass]

Im really ineterested in real world comparisons between the Swaro Z8 1-8 and SB's 1-8 Exos.

I would like to put either of these on my .416 Rigby, with the smokey being the Swaro Z8 1.7-13 for the .416. This scope sounds like a do it all, but maybe more suited to a .375

Why not a .416?

 

[Philip Glass]

My criteria for this type of scope has led me in an entirely different direction. Although the option to adjust to a higher magnification seems nice, for me the trade off is not worth it. The reduced field of view, inadequate eye relief, and often mounting height above the bore-line because of the larger objective are negatives.

I have found that 4X is more than adequate for even smaller targets at long ranges, but then again I'm a trained military shooter. The Remington rifles we used at that time carried a fixed 10X Leupold, and on the .300 Win caliber rifles we shot small targets at well over 1,000 yards.

Given the primary purpose of a DG rifle calls for large, often lower velocity calibers, sometimes less than 2,000fps from shorter barrels with heavy bullets, trying to hit any small target at over 200 yards would take a very precise distance and trajectory calculation. Be honest, how many of us have shot our DG rifle past 200 yards, and know the exact trajectory at these ranges?

I think we are attempting to make a silk purse out of a sows ear.

I would say if it is a .375 then yes I'll know the trajectory and even be able to dial. For me larger caliber will be the double rifle.

 

[Philip Glass]

First Thank you Phillip for an excellent video.

Do to my job I have had the opportunity to sell and try many different optics over the years. Africa especially has a different need on optics verses here in Texas.
After 5 trips. 5 buffalo 1 lioness and 46 plains game I have adjusted and changed scopes so many times I have lost count.
I have settled on what I feel is perfect for me. That is the key, Me. Each person needs to decide what is perfect for them.

CZ 458 Lott wears a Leupold VX6 Patrol 1-6 FireDot. This is non CDS version. Gun is for DG only up to 150 yards very comfortable shooting it. Many rounds down it

CZ 375 HH wears Leupold VX6 2-12 FireDot with CDS cut for 300gr Aframes. Have used out to 300 yards on plains game and is my back up DG. Plan on using it for Hippo and croc next year.

My 300 win mag which is my home hunting rifle and plains game in Africa
VX5 5-20x52 CDS FireDot. Why so big?
Long range South Texas or West Texas.
Also in Africa makes for nice optics shooting Baboons and long distance and open plains game areas.

These work best for me on these rifles.
I have gone to all Leupold now.
Eye relief is a key factor for me and field of view. These work best for my body frame

Each person needs to find what works best for them, there hunting situations, and body built.

My 2 cents.

Thanks Mark and good advice since you do get to handle all the latest glass. This is one of my points with the Z8's. Virtually no one I speak to has any experience with them but yet prefer something else. Like you I have and use many Leupolds On many calibers.

 

[Philip Glass]

I really like your scope choices. What bullet are you using in your .300? Thanks!

Barnes TTSX 180g. It has been fantastic for me.

 

[Philip Glass]

You spoke in the video and indeed called your video ‘My take on dangerous game scopes’ and then compromised that by talking about a scope that also is good on pg.

Have you been on a safari where no PG were taken? I have not. Maybe some of y'all have gun bearers following you with a nice selection of calibers for what pops up?
You must have missed the versatility part Of the video.

 

[Mark Biggerstaff]

I really like your scope choices. What bullet are you using in your .300? Thanks!

I have 2 loads for my 300 win mag. A turret cut for each one.
Here at home I shoot Barnes 180gr TTSX handload. When taking to Africa, a 200gr Swift Aframe factory loaded ammo.

 

[Mark Biggerstaff]

Thanks Mark and good advice since you do get to handle all the latest glass. This is one of my points with the Z8's. Virtually no one I speak to has any experience with them but yet prefer something else. Like you I have and use many Leupolds On many calibers.

Phillip you are correct on the Swarovski Z8i 1.7-13. It is truly a versatile scope for DG and PG on certain rifles.
I have sold and shot many of them.
The only draw back I have on Swarovski is it does not lend itself well on some rifles.
Swarovski has less MOA of elevation and windage vrs Leupold VX5 VX6 series.
If you have a rifle that is not real true on barrel receiver alignment you can run into problems not having enough MOA to zero the rifle or not have enough elevation adjustment left to get over 500 yards on the BT turret system. I found this out on my CZ 458 Lott. Even after Wayne at AHR had worked on it. I could not get a Swaro Z6i to zero at 100 yards with my ammo choice.
Leupold VX6 was no issue.

I also have gone to fixed mounts on all my rifles. Even 458Lott. I have had issues with the QD rings also. I figure I will never actually need to remove optics. I travel with scopes attached on rifles and never had issues

 

[Forrest Halley]

I am just relating my experience and frustration with the QD rings. They got off on several occasions during a safari. My point is to get to know your equipment And make sure it works. Don't just go buy something and state that it is the best even though it's never been beat around over seas.

@Philip Glass the video was certainly an undertaking which has merit and was informational based on a person with a lot of experience. Thanks for sharing your opinions with us.

This is definitely a solid statement. There are a lot of opinions out there of a product's durability that still have all the finish on them. Not nearly enough usage for such convicted testimony.

I was pleased to see mounting marks on the scopes in the video and a rifle that looked used. I enjoyed the old school mixed with new school in bigger powers and cautionary tales about QD mounts and turrets.

The Leupold VX-R 2-7x33 was a great offering that I wish I had bought a dozen of. Illuminated reticle and 30mm was just too many new things for me to embrace all at once. After the first few hunts with it I was missing it in the early and late moments if I didn't have it along.

I recently had a Leupold VX-3I 4.5-14x40 playing games with me on the range shifting impacts between powers. I confirmed this over two sessions with the 4.5x being the offender at both 50 and 100 yards as the rifle retained zero at 14x even after dismount/remount. I was thankful for the ability to change to another scope rapidly as this is the only rifle I own that has multiple optics set up for it. However, the other option was a VX-2 2.5x heavy duplex scope that had a wide field of view and I felt the capability of the rifle from a precision standpoint change. I also feel like if I had invested in a VX-6 2-12x42 that I would not be concerned about QD as much.

I have a few questions your scope preferences.
Are you doing everything with a .375 type caliber? Would you have a different opinion on something much larger outside of the .416-.404 power levels?
Do you find there is a maximum return at some point on objective size? You seem to stop in the 40's.
At what point in the power scale do you find the ability to instantly line up a shot no longer exists? I feel like it's somewhere between 2-4x.

I wonder why two scopes are not made at present: 1or2-8x56 illuminated reticle and 1-12x50. Why is the scope world acting like a true one power to something functional has to be a straight objective?

 

[mdwest]

Barnes TTSX 180g. It has been fantastic for me.

Ive recently loaded up a bunch of TTSX 180gr for my 300 H&H.. Havent taken them to the range yet.. but I am excited to give them a try... assuming one of the loads produces good groups, it will become my go to for 300 H&H..

 

[Puddle]

Again what DG hunt does not include some PG?

Uhhh .... mine?

 

[Daisy]

First Thank you Phillip for an excellent video.

Do to my job I have had the opportunity to sell and try many different optics over the years. Africa especially has a different need on optics verses here in Texas.
After 5 trips. 5 buffalo 1 lioness and 46 plains game I have adjusted and changed scopes so many times I have lost count.
I have settled on what I feel is perfect for me. That is the key, Me. Each person needs to decide what is perfect for them.

CZ 458 Lott wears a Leupold VX6 Patrol 1-6 FireDot. This is non CDS version. Gun is for DG only up to 150 yards very comfortable shooting it. Many rounds down it

CZ 375 HH wears Leupold VX6 2-12 FireDot with CDS cut for 300gr Aframes. Have used out to 300 yards on plains game and is my back up DG. Plan on using it for Hippo and croc next year.

My 300 win mag which is my home hunting rifle and plains game in Africa
VX5 5-20x52 CDS FireDot. Why so big?
Long range South Texas or West Texas.
Also in Africa makes for nice optics shooting Baboons and long distance and open plains game areas.

These work best for me on these rifles.
I have gone to all Leupold now.
Eye relief is a key factor for me and field of view. These work best for my body frame

Each person needs to find what works best for them, there hunting situations, and body built.

My 2 cents.

I have almost the exact setup. 416 Ruger with a patrol 6 1-6 fire dot, 375 Ruger with vx6hd 2-12 firedot, and 338 Lapua with vx6hd 4-24 tmoa. I went back and forth on if I should get firedot or tmoa reticle on this one, but mainly decided because I got a smoking deal on the tmoa version. I also love the custom turrets.

I have tried almost every major glass maker. I agree swaro is top of the heap. I will say leupold Vx6hd to my eyes looks the same and has just as much daylight gathering. The custom dials are better than the swaro B flex system too imo. And the price is 1/2 to even more. It’s made in USA with easier customer support and warranty if needed.

In my mind swaro fits if you’re a person that has to have the best (no knock, I do that a lot too), or you just really want the 8x. That second one is what makes me think of changing to swaro at times. Also the rail system since I shoot blaser r8 now, but I think that’s more theoretical and not really an issue with blaser saddle mount and rings.

If leupold would bring out a vx8 like it would be a no brainer. I had a mark 8 at one time, and it’s a fine optic. I just couldn’t get into the mil thing and busy reticle. I’m just not a competitive shooter.

Any word on a vx8 line mark?

 

[poco]

Great video!
it’s time for my 375 ruger to get a scope and I hope my leupold 2-7 x 40 , cuts the mustard on low & top magnifation , my safari buddy uses a 4-12 x50 on his M70 375
but removes the scope on dangerous stuff like hippo and buff

 

[RR 314]

You have absolutely no credibility as you hunt with a synthetically stocked rifle. . .


. . . I am in the same camp. . I still remain a huge fan of the S&B Exos 1-8 as a DG scope. True 1X and great overall scope. Scope for me depends on intended purpose. The AHR .416 Ruger has the scope you like the least. . The .375 H&H is a lightweight all around with CF barrel and sports a Kahles Helia (illuminated) 2.5-10. I love the combo, and while it certainly would be a delight to carry on a buffalo hunt, it likely will never be taken.

 

[RR 314]

Oh, I have a 1.8-5.5 on my Heym ..404 and think aesthetically a straight tube, in my opinion, is much more appealing. An Exos 1-8 is likely in its future.

 

[RLL]

Thanks Mark and good advice since you do get to handle all the latest glass. This is one of my points with the Z8's. Virtually no one I speak to has any experience with them but yet prefer something else. Like you I have and use many Leupolds On many calibers.

I have a Z8i I’ve used on a 416B&M and the 375 Rugie. Just about the best combo’s I’ve found so far. It’s taken game at 20yrds on 1x and had to go to 8x on the longest shot for an opportunity at a wiley sable we’d been hunting for 3 days. I like the trijicon and leeopolds but the swaro has my preferred reticles.