Are the new Hornady cartridges necessary?

[rdog]

I am building a 6 mm ARC a new 2021 Hornady invention, basically a 6mm grendel , why ? my old Ruger 77 mk2 22 PPC needs a new bbl . Dies brass & ammo are a lot cheaper than 6 mm PPC & ballistics a little better. good on you Hornady.

 

[colorado]

No new bolt action rifle calibers since 1963 are necessary in my opinon. By then we had the 220 Swift, 243, 264 Win Mag, 270, 7mm Rem Mag, 30-06, 300 Win Mag, 338 Win Mag, 375 H&H, 416 Rigby, 458 Win Mag, 500 Jeffery and 505 Gibbs in bolt action rifles. As far as the .556, the US would've been better off going from the 7.62 (.308 Win) to the .243 if their goal was less recoil and less ammunition weight while still retaining some knockdown power.

 

[JGRaider]

There's not a .243 in existence that holds a candle to the "new" 6.5CM.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

There's not a .243 in existence that holds a candle to the "new" 6.5CM.

@JGRaider
There's not a 243 in existence that is any use for anything but rebarreling to a real hunting caliber.
The barrels do make good tomato stakes tho.
Bob

 

[Vashper]

My computer translator decodes PRC as People Republic of China, which is a bit entertaining.
This situation is reminiscent of heated discussions among the military about calibers before the First World War. Creedmor, for example, strongly resembles not even the official "papa" Carcano, but the Arisaka 6.5 x 50 cartridge, only the "Japanese" has a slightly more subtle case. The cartridge was very popular at the time, and was in service not only in Japan. At that time there was a scientific approach, and it seems that the main military-technical task "how to kill more and cheaper" was then solved in the most optimal way. The preservation of the 300-caliber happened, apparently, for random reasons.
Perhaps in the future the armies of the world will switch to something similar, since 5.56 (and the Russian equivalent of 5.45) were obvious mistakes. However, one military writer noted that now the infantry may be armed with popguns - this will not affect the course and result of military operations much.
But after all, a hunting rifle is not an army machine gun, and the game is a little different in properties, and the hunter is not a soldier. Perhaps the search for the perfect cartridge makes sense, because earlier the military heritage somehow influenced both cartridges and rifles. But so far, most of the new products do not look like an ideal.

 

[Inline6]

No new bolt action rifle calibers since 1963 are necessary in my opinon. By then we had the 220 Swift, 243, 264 Win Mag, 270, 7mm Rem Mag, 30-06, 300 Win Mag, 338 Win Mag, 375 H&H, 416 Rigby, 458 Win Mag, 500 Jeffery and 505 Gibbs in bolt action rifles. As far as the .556, the US would've been better off going from the 7.62 (.308 Win) to the .243 if their goal was less recoil and less ammunition weight while still retaining some knockdown power.

No way no how, 1 the weight difference is not that significant 2 the size of the weapon system you are adding pounds AR10 vs AR15. 3 the barrel on a 223 will go 5 -10 X the round count of 243 easy.

 

[TERMINATOR]

I think you're either in the "gotta have the new best thing" crowd or you're not. I'm not, I like my 30.06 and my .375 H&H . I certainly don't begrudge anyone who wants lots of different calibers, it's just not my thing . I do wonder how available ammo for some of these calibers will be if they're not a big hit. Probably not that big of an issue for reloaders though. To each his own.

I own 6 Big Game Calibers. The newest one is now 34 years old. All of them in tremendous guns.
I can kill anything on earth with what I have.

Instead of spending money on the newest latest caliber introduced and having to buy new ammo & reloading dies...I am spending my money on hunts.

I mean...

.270 Win (100 Years old this year)
.30-06 (117 Years old)
.300 Wby (79 Years old)
.358 Win (68 Years old)
.375 H&H (113 Years old)
.416 Rem (the baby of the bunch at 34 Years old)

There is nothing on earth I can kill with those. Nothing.

Sure some of the newcomers will gain some FPS...but they don't kill the animals and more dead.

I will let all the new age hunters grab the latest greatest cailbers and be on the bleeding edge.
More ammo for me
.

 

[Alistair]

No way no how, 1 the weight difference is not that significant 2 the size of the weapon system you are adding pounds AR10 vs AR15. 3 the barrel on a 223 will go 5 -10 X the round count of 243 easy.

Interestingly the Brits were experimenting with a .280 with similar power to a .243 around the same time as the US was working on the .223. Obviously the project got killed a. due to need for alignment with NATO on ammo, and b. because the British government was cheap and mildly inept (plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose).

Personally I think the .223 was the right choice though. Give a man an auto rifle and he shoots a lot of ammo, most of which hits nothing and is intended simply to suppress the enemy.

Better to give him a lighter, more controllable rifle with a bigger ammo capacity in that situation than trade up in calibre and have him run dry faster. .223 might not kill the enemy quickly in all situations, but a .22 calibre hole in his torso will certainly reduce his willingness to fight markedly... It might also slightly improve the hit percentages considering the recoil, velocity and trajectory advantage.

I guess we'll see how the new US cartridge does in field trials and see if that opinion has changed with time.

I own 6 Big Game Calibers. The newest one is now 34 years old. All of them in tremendous guns.
I can kill anything on earth with what I have.

Instead of spending money on the newest latest caliber introduced and having to buy new ammo & reloading dies...I am spending my money on hunts.

I mean...

.270 Win (100 Years old this year)
.30-06 (117 Years old)
.300 Wby (79 Years old)
.358 Win (68 Years old)
.375 H&H (113 Years old)
.416 Rem (the baby of the bunch at 34 Years old)

There is nothing on earth I can kill with those. Nothing.

Sure some of the newcomers will gain some FPS...but they don't kill the animals and more dead.

I will let all the new age hunters grab the latest greatest cailbers and be on the bleeding edge.
More ammo for me
.

Yup, pretty much.

I had a .270win, a 375H&H and a .44Rem Mag as my three hunting rifles.

I could've swapped the 270 for a 7mm rem mag or a WSSM or a weatherby or a creedmoor or whatever, but what would it do different? Stick a medium caliber bullet in the right place at sensible ranges, and job done, no matter what cartridge it came out of. Not like a modern design is worse and on paper it's theoretically better, but in the real world, what practical difference does it make?

Honestly, in your situation I wouldn't have bothered buying a 300wby and a 30-06 and a .270. Pick any one of 'em and you'd shoot all the same animals at all the same distances just as dead all the same.

Same story with all these wonder cartridges in that 6.5-8mm space. They all purport to be unique and special and magically impressive, but in reality, they all do exactly the same as a venerable 30-06.

They sell rifles though!

 

[R.M.C.]

I own 6 Big Game Calibers. The newest one is now 34 years old. All of them in tremendous guns.
I can kill anything on earth with what I have.

Instead of spending money on the newest latest caliber introduced and having to buy new ammo & reloading dies...I am spending my money on hunts.

I mean...

.270 Win (100 Years old this year)
.30-06 (117 Years old)
.300 Wby (79 Years old)
.358 Win (68 Years old)
.375 H&H (113 Years old)
.416 Rem (the baby of the bunch at 34 Years old)

There is nothing on earth I can kill with those. Nothing.

Sure some of the newcomers will gain some FPS...but they don't kill the animals and more dead.

I will let all the new age hunters grab the latest greatest cailbers and be on the bleeding edge.
More ammo for me
.

I agree, I'm past the point in my life where I want to buy every new gadget on the market if it was related to hunting. I would rather spend my money on hunts instead of guns too. I do spend a bit on ammo sometimes but that's another story lol

 

[Wyatt Smith]

They are not necessary, but the shooting world would would be pretty boring if all we had was the 7x57, 30-40, 30-30, 45-70 and so on.
Some people will chase the small advantage a newer cartridge offers over an older one, others don’t see the need.

 

[Vashper]

People are not buying new ammo & reloading dies.., they are buying a dream...

 

[TERMINATOR]

Interestingly the Brits were experimenting with a .280 with similar power to a .243 around the same time as the US was working on the .223. Obviously the project got killed a. due to need for alignment with NATO on ammo, and b. because the British government was cheap and mildly inept (plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose).

Personally I think the .223 was the right choice though. Give a man an auto rifle and he shoots a lot of ammo, most of which hits nothing and is intended simply to suppress the enemy.

Better to give him a lighter, more controllable rifle with a bigger ammo capacity in that situation than trade up in calibre and have him run dry faster. .223 might not kill the enemy quickly in all situations, but a .22 calibre hole in his torso will certainly reduce his willingness to fight markedly... It might also slightly improve the hit percentages considering the recoil, velocity and trajectory advantage.

I guess we'll see how the new US cartridge does in field trials and see if that opinion has changed with time.

Yup, pretty much.

I had a .270win, a 375H&H and a .44Rem Mag as my three hunting rifles.

I could've swapped the 270 for a 7mm rem mag or a WSSM or a weatherby or a creedmoor or whatever, but what would it do different? Stick a medium caliber bullet in the right place at sensible ranges, and job done, no matter what cartridge it came out of. Not like a modern design is worse and on paper it's theoretically better, but in the real world, what practical difference does it make?

Honestly, in your situation I wouldn't have bothered buying a 300wby and a 30-06 and a .270. Pick any one of 'em and you'd shoot all the same animals at all the same distances just as dead all the same.

Same story with all these wonder cartridges in that 6.5-8mm space. They all purport to be unique and special and magically impressive, but in reality, they all do exactly the same as a venerable 30-06.

They sell rifles though!

I inherited 2 rifles in 30-06 when my dad died. A 1952 Win Model 70 and a 1976 Remington 760 Pump which was his "Whitetail Rifle". They were kind of redundant to my gun needs but they are both in Mint Condition and have sentimental value so, yea, I kept them. Will give them to my son and he will give them to his kids.

My personal choice rifles for decades were:
.270 built by Melvin Forbes of New Ultra Light Arms. The older I get the more I love that gun.
.300 Wby Accumark by Weatherby....my Elk and Plains Game Gun
.375 H&H Win Model 70 Super Express that l that I used to kill my first Cape Buffalo last July
.358 Win in BLR...because every Michigan hunter needs a lever action "brush gun" for Whitetail and it doesn't get much better than a .358 Win in a BLR

I recently added a 416 Rem Model 70 Safari Express and honestly should sell the .375 as it is redundant between the .416 and .300 Wby....but I just can't. At least not yet. I am gonna use the .375 with 260 Grain Nosler Accubonds on a Nilgai in Texas.

But I really don't see myself swapping any of my guns for the latest whiz bang caliber.

 

[Alistair]

They are not necessary, but the shooting world would would be pretty boring if all we had was the 7x57, 30-40, 30-30, 45-70 and so on.
Some people will chase the small advantage a newer cartridge offers over an older one, others don’t see the need.

That's fair. The market supports 'em, people buy 'em, it adds a bit of variety, spices up the old post-hunt bullshitting at the bar, no issues there.

I just get a bit jaded when the marketing blurb for every new release gives you the old "With our new, super ultra low drag magnum you'll shoot more animals, can hit a flys left arse cheek at 1 million miles, you'll never miss, women'll want you, men'll want to be you and all the animals under the sun will tremble at the thought of your hunting prowess..."

It just gets a bit old.

 

[TERMINATOR]

People are not buying new ammo & reloading dies.., they are buying a dream...

Thats what I did when I got the Model 70 .375 with only 3 shots fired through it for $699 back in 1998. I had no idea if I would ever hunt anything that would require a .375...but I wanted to.

Took me 24 years but I finally killed a Cape Buffalo with it last July. 1 shot into the lungs...was DOA when we walked up on it...but I paid the insurance shot to be safe.

So I get buying a dream. If I was buying my first gun right now...yea, I might buy a new 7mm PRC or 300 PRC. But I at this point, I got ammo and components to last the rest of my life for the guns I have and don't see any reason why I would swap killers proven for a century or 1/2 century out.

 

[Forrest Halley]

I find the .458 Lott very necessary. Not exactly sure for what, but I like it. Otherwise I don't have too many new cartridges at home. As one guy put it...the .375 and the .30-06 take care of one helluva lot. Beyond that we have pet cartridges and toys.

 

[TERMINATOR]

@JGRaider
There's not a 243 in existence that is any use for anything but rebarreling to a real hunting caliber.
The barrels do make good tomato stakes tho.
Bob

I agree with you Bob...but that will rile up some people LOL

Personally I think it starts a .25 caliber gun...the .25 Roberts is (probably "was" at this point) a much better "starter gun". The 25-06 and .257 Wby are hella good Pronghorn and Mule Deer guns. But if I get bigger than deer...I want bigger than .25 caliber.

My son and grand daughter started on 7mm08 when it was time to graduate from .22 plinking to killing stuff. For all purposes it is a short action 7x57. 7mm-08 is almost the ballistic twin of the 7x57. And everybody knows what the 7x57 did for most of a century in Africa.

I just don't have faith in the .243/6mm.

 

[Wyatt Smith]

That's fair. The market supports 'em, people buy 'em, it adds a bit of variety, spices up the old post-hunt bullshitting at the bar, no issues there.

I just get a bit jaded when the marketing blurb for every new release gives you the old "With our new, super ultra low drag magnum you'll shoot more animals, can hit a flys left arse cheek at 1 million miles, you'll never miss, women'll want you, men'll want to be you and all the animals under the sun will tremble at the thought of your hunting prowess..."

It just gets a bit old.

I agree it gets quite old.

 

[TERMINATOR]

I find the .458 Lott very necessary. Not exactly sure for what, but I like it. Otherwise I don't have too many new cartridges at home. As one guy put it...the .375 and the .30-06 take care of one helluva lot. Beyond that we have pet cartridges and toys.

A person certainly could hunt anything you can hunt for their lifetime with just a .30-06 and .375 H&H

 

[Wyatt Smith]

A person certainly could hunt anything you can hunt for their lifetime with just a .30-06 and .375 H&H

Add a 22 Rimfire and a shotgun. The 06 or too much for squirrels and really hard to get a quail.

 

[Alistair]

I guess I should add, my commentary above is in the context of hunting. For hunting, they're all much of a muchness.

That said, I wouldn't want to take to the field in a 1000yd bench rest comp with a .308. If there was someone 1200yds away behind a GPMG or a light mortar that I'd really, really like to stop firing in my direction, I'd rather have a modern .338lap or something over a 30-06. Same story if I was heading out on patrol somewhere dangerous and had a choice of 250 rounds of 8mm Mauser or 500 of .223 for the same pack weight.

In those scenarios, no contest.

But for hunting, eh, whatever I can find ammo for is just peachy.