THE KING

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

And seeing as the 257 Bob is almost identical to the 243 Win, I can't figure out why a strapping fellow such as yourself can't seem to kill anything with a 243. You been reading the hype too? Lol!

@TOBY458
The reason I can't kill anything with a 243 is because I refuse to own one or even hold one. Could explain things.
Saying the 257 is almost identical to the 243 is like saying a Ford pick up is almost a Kenworth.
I've killed plenty of shit with my 25 tho, even other stuff 243 shooters have failed to kill.
Bob

 

[TOBY458]

@TOBY458
The reason I can't kill anything with a 243 is because I refuse to own one or even hold one. Could explain things.
Saying the 257 is almost identical to the 243 is like saying a Ford pick up is almost a Kenworth.
I've killed plenty of shit with my 25 tho, even other stuff 243 shooters have failed to kill.
Bob

I always know where to go for a good laugh. Those extra 17 grains of lead and the additional .014 of bullet diameter must really put the smack down on the Kangaroo over there!

 

[SaintPanzer]

I like the way you think! The 300 H&H is my new favorite cartridge. I could argue that it isn’t meaningfully more lethal than an ‘06, but who cares. It’s coolness factor is undeniable.

So, the thing is... the .300 Super and the .375 H&H Magnum both use the same case, which also means the same bolt. So you could have a "Traveler" version made, and just interchange barrels as appropriate.

Add a .275 H&H, and you'd really be styling!

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I always know where to go for a good laugh. Those extra 17 grains of lead and the additional .014 of bullet diameter must really put the smack down on the Kangaroo over there!

@TOBY458
That extra .014" makes a big difference mate. Why launch a 100gn out of a piss ant 243 at 2,700fps when I can launch a 100 grainer out of my 25 at 3,600fps.
Dang you can't even get a 120gr 6mm
Let's see your pissy little 243 do that
Speed, weight and accuracy kills. The 243 lacks on all bar accuracy
Bob

 

[rdog]

I always know where to go for a good laugh. Those extra 17 grains of lead and the additional .014 of bullet diameter must really put the smack down on the Kangaroo over there!

Yes they must be magic , poor old bob needs some help, may be a love affair with a 6.5 or 7mm would ease his obsession.

 

[Ray B]

whatever the .375 HH Magnum can do , the .404 Jeffery can do better

And it doesn't have that Bozo Belt.

 

[Doug3006]

And it doesn't have that Bozo Belt.

I would love to add a 404 to my collection but I like to use my rifles. Ammo for the 375 is scarce. Ammo and components for the 404 are darned near nonexistent. I’ll stick with the H&H!

 

[TOBY458]

@TOBY458
That extra .014" makes a big difference mate. Why launch a 100gn out of a piss ant 243 at 2,700fps when I can launch a 100 grainer out of my 25 at 3,600fps.
Dang you can't even get a 120gr 6mm
Let's see your pissy little 243 do that
Speed, weight and accuracy kills. The 243 lacks on all bar accuracy
Bob
View attachment 506779

Wait a minute! That's no 257 Bob in that picture.....No way the Bob gets 3600 with a 100gr bullet! Hell, a 257 Weatherby won't even do that unless it's from a 26" barrel and loaded to the gills. But nice try! Lol!

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Yes they must be magic , poor old bob needs some help, may be a love affair with a 6.5 or 7mm would ease his obsession.

@rdog
NEVER, I'm a faithful 25 and 35 nut tho I do like the idea of a 280AI.
Bob

 

[Randy F]

I love it when you guys fight nice.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Wait a minute! That's no 257 Bob in that picture.....No way the Bob gets 3600 with a 100gr bullet! Hell, a 257 Weatherby won't even do that unless it's from a 26" barrel and loaded to the gills. But nice try! Lol!

@TOBY458
That's my 25 loaded with 58gn of Hogdon superformance and a 100gn nosler balistic tip.
I used to use H4831SC for almost 3,500fps but the superformance bring slower gives the 25 a boost at lower pressure. I get 8 reloads per case until the neck cracks. I cured that problem by annealing the neck and shoulder. Some of my cases are now up to the 10th load. That's out of a 24 inch barrel. I know it shouldn't do those speeds it's just a freak. 117grain and 115gn get 3,340 fps with superformance and low pressure.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Wait a minute! That's no 257 Bob in that picture.....No way the Bob gets 3600 with a 100gr bullet! Hell, a 257 Weatherby won't even do that unless it's from a 26" barrel and loaded to the gills. But nice try! Lol!

@TOBY458
Dang man even ifn y'all load the Whelen proper y'all can make that ol girl into something special. What about a nice 310gn Woodleigh at over 2,400fps SAFELY.

It's wonderful what can be done with new powders now day and it can be done SAFELY without going overboard and still in safe pressures
Bob

 

[Ray B]

I'm wondering about the pressure curve, the pressure felt by the bullet base from its position in the neck to exiting the muzzle. Previously the velocity of the bullet was a function of the area under the graph. And the shape of the graph was a function of the powders burn rate. However with the information above it appears to be more involved than just a straight-forward burnrate from pressure function.. To keep pressure from spiking but maintaining a high level there is something new added to the qualities of the powder. I'm wondering what it is.

 

[Foxi]

I hope I am not making myself unpopular here.
Despite all the euphoria that prevails here.
In Africa, in Big Game hunting circles, it is only a middle cartridge.

 

[Doug3006]

I hope I am not making myself unpopular here.
Despite all the euphoria that prevails here.
In Africa, in Big Game hunting circles, it is only a middle cartridge.

No worries Foxi. No one else in this conversation is much concerned with their popularity! All that’s needed is strong belief in the superiority of some such catridge…or a desire to stir the pot! Or both.

Yes, the 375 is a middle bore cartridge as my pal @Jeff505 frequently reminds me. What on earth that designation means to a hunter escapes me. It’ll kill anything that walks given the right bullet. If one feels the need for a “stopping” rifle, have at it. I suggest the 458 Lott. Now, back to my euphoria!

 

[colorado]

it's a fine deer cartridge

 

[Doug3006]

it's a fine deer cartridge

Now THAT’S what I’m talking about!

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

The 6.5 Creedmoor of DG cartridges

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I'm wondering about the pressure curve, the pressure felt by the bullet base from its position in the neck to exiting the muzzle. Previously the velocity of the bullet was a function of the area under the graph. And the shape of the graph was a function of the powders burn rate. However with the information above it appears to be more involved than just a straight-forward burnrate from pressure function.. To keep pressure from spiking but maintaining a high level there is something new added to the qualities of the powder. I'm wondering what it is.

@Ray B
It was explained to me that the pressure curve of these newer powders is different to the parabolic curve of yore.
These new powders appear to maintain peak pressure and decrease that pressure more gradually than before. This results in a longer pressure curve that gives a higher muzzle pressure that in turn gives higher velocities.
For example the old powders gave a muzzle pressure of say 5,000 psi the new ones have a muzzle pressure of say 7,000psi. All this is done without exceeding safe max pressure for a given cartridge. Higher final pressure= higher velocity.
That's how it was explained to me.
Bob

 

[Ray B]

the classic system involves the powder being ignited and building peak pressure as the bullet is just starting to move from the cartridge. The powder continues to burn which would build pressure except that the bullet is accelerating down the barrel creating more space which would reduce the pressure. Historically the way to get more velocity was to match the burn rate with the delay needed for the bullet to overcome its inertia and then fill the space behind the bullet to keep the pressure up. A balancing act developed between case capacity, bore capacity, bore cross-section and sectional density of the bullet. Add to that "tricks" to lessen the initial pressure spike such as free-bore and bullet jump. You end up with a search for a perfect burn-rate powder.
But it appears with the newer powders that the chemists have developed a powder that has a means of slowing its burnrate as pressures reach a specific level, then continue to burn to keep the pressure at that desired level- the result would be a pressure curve where the powder burns quickly to the desired pressure, then slows while the bullet is accelerating to maintain the desired pressure, then as the bullet gains speed, the powder burnrate would increase to maintain the pressure. Then if they were really clever they'd have a means for the powder supply to be exhausted and the burn to run out of fuel just as the bullet is exiting the muzzle- thereby decreasing undesirable pressure on the bullet as it exited and also reducing muzzle blast. i wonder what means they are using to obtain these goals.