Would you hunt in an area in Africa that used a sliding scale for fees?

[Odinsraven]

As I cull only, I find it hard to comprehend, but my usual comment is, 'What am I still paying per shot, or do we sort this FUBAR of overpopulation out?' Strangely, they invite me back again and again!

 

[Hunt anything]

@Flbt , in South Africa if it’s fenced the land owner owns the game. There are some variations depending on some species (TOPS animals) the owner can charge what he sees fit.

 

[Rafiki]

NO

 

[Flbt]

@Flbt , in South Africa if it’s fenced the land owner owns the game. There are some variations depending on some species (TOPS animals) the owner can charge what he sees fit.

Ok
I can see if they own the animals.
But wasn’t the op talking about free range?

Idk
Just asking

 

[3chunter]

Probably not. Unless the outfitter had a certain species that I was after that are real big.

 

[Rumrunner]

Ok….I agree and disagree. I understand that the experience and quest is the trophy; however the last thing any of us want is for someone to walk in, look at our mount and ask “you went all the way to Africa and this is what you brought back. Was this a cull”?

I give you this scenario, I don’t want to impune anyone’s integrity but human nature is human nature. Please convince me I am wrong.

Mike is in Africa for a free range buffalo hunt for his very first time. Monty is his PH. Monty had a group of PG hunters last week and saw several very large buffalos several times in a defined area. Monty knows that Lynn will be there for his fourth safari. Lynn has requested Monty be his PH for the fourth time. Last year hunting PG Lynn said he was coming back for a large buffalo. Lynn tips like a drunken sailor.
Does Monty take Mike for the largest buffalo he can find or knows of? Monty is in the bush six days a week. Or, does Monty take Mike for an ok buffalo while reserving the biggest for Lynn?
Mike really wanted a very large buffalo and expressed his desire to Monty. However Monty knew Lynn was going to be there and would tip very well. So he took Mike for a so so buffalo.

In this scenario a sliding scale would help Mike get the trophy he desired. Up front he would book the size buffalo he desired.

 

[Bearkat]

Nope.

 

[Flbt]

Ok….I agree and disagree. I understand that the experience and quest is the trophy; however the last thing any of us want is for someone to walk in, look at our mount and ask “you went all the way to Africa and this is what you brought back. Was this a cull”?

I give you this scenario, I don’t want to impune anyone’s integrity but human nature is human nature. Please convince me I am wrong.

Mike is in Africa for a free range buffalo hunt for his very first time. Monty is his PH. Monty had a group of PG hunters last week and saw several very large buffalos several times in a defined area. Monty knows that Lynn will be there for his fourth safari. Lynn has requested Monty be his PH for the fourth time. Last year hunting PG Lynn said he was coming back for a large buffalo. Lynn tips like a drunken sailor.
Does Monty take Mike for the largest buffalo he can find or knows of? Monty is in the bush six days a week. Or, does Monty take Mike for an ok buffalo while reserving the biggest for Lynn?
Mike really wanted a very large buffalo and expressed his desire to Monty. However Monty knew Lynn was going to be there and would tip very well. So he took Mike for a so so buffalo.

In this scenario a sliding scale would help Mike get the trophy he desired. Up front he would book the size buffalo he desired.

Or just don’t worry about size comctrait on age and the hunt.

I have only ask 2 people why they mounted what they did one was family and the other out of just because I wanted to know.
The first was a little fork horn buck a fl 1 1/2 to 2 year old at the best. His kid brother had ms and wanted a deer mount any deer mount. If a doe would have came out it would have been a doe mount.

The other one a bear that probably went 105 lbs.
I had to ask
The story I got it was the last year we had a regular bear season. They were not hunting bear they were after hog. The bear has been backed in a culvert they thought it was a hog.
The guy went in the back grabbing the legs then he noticed the claws instead of hoves.
So he shot the bear.

I would have mount a hand Cought bear even if it was on the small side

 

[375Fox]

Ok….I agree and disagree. I understand that the experience and quest is the trophy; however the last thing any of us want is for someone to walk in, look at our mount and ask “you went all the way to Africa and this is what you brought back. Was this a cull”?

I give you this scenario, I don’t want to impune anyone’s integrity but human nature is human nature. Please convince me I am wrong.

Mike is in Africa for a free range buffalo hunt for his very first time. Monty is his PH. Monty had a group of PG hunters last week and saw several very large buffalos several times in a defined area. Monty knows that Lynn will be there for his fourth safari. Lynn has requested Monty be his PH for the fourth time. Last year hunting PG Lynn said he was coming back for a large buffalo. Lynn tips like a drunken sailor.
Does Monty take Mike for the largest buffalo he can find or knows of? Monty is in the bush six days a week. Or, does Monty take Mike for an ok buffalo while reserving the biggest for Lynn?
Mike really wanted a very large buffalo and expressed his desire to Monty. However Monty knew Lynn was going to be there and would tip very well. So he took Mike for a so so buffalo.

In this scenario a sliding scale would help Mike get the trophy he desired. Up front he would book the size buffalo he desired.

Have you hunted buffalo outside South Africa? This isn’t quite how it works in a concession area. You usually have camp to yourself for the 10 or 14 days during your hunt before the next hunter comes in. Animals don’t get reserved and aren’t guaranteed. Lions can move in, poachers can disrupt the area, animals can move across a concession or park boundary, fire can move across, lot of other variables not even taking into account wind or brush on final stalk. Generally you see a quality bull you take it or you risk not getting a bull at all. There are a few exceptional areas you have opportunity to look over a large number of bulls, but those areas generally come at a premium price already.

 

[Red Leg]

Ok….I agree and disagree. I understand that the experience and quest is the trophy; however the last thing any of us want is for someone to walk in, look at our mount and ask “you went all the way to Africa and this is what you brought back. Was this a cull”?

I give you this scenario, I don’t want to impune anyone’s integrity but human nature is human nature. Please convince me I am wrong.

Mike is in Africa for a free range buffalo hunt for his very first time. Monty is his PH. Monty had a group of PG hunters last week and saw several very large buffalos several times in a defined area. Monty knows that Lynn will be there for his fourth safari. Lynn has requested Monty be his PH for the fourth time. Last year hunting PG Lynn said he was coming back for a large buffalo. Lynn tips like a drunken sailor.
Does Monty take Mike for the largest buffalo he can find or knows of? Monty is in the bush six days a week. Or, does Monty take Mike for an ok buffalo while reserving the biggest for Lynn?
Mike really wanted a very large buffalo and expressed his desire to Monty. However Monty knew Lynn was going to be there and would tip very well. So he took Mike for a so so buffalo.

In this scenario a sliding scale would help Mike get the trophy he desired. Up front he would book the size buffalo he desired.

I have never had that hunting experience in Africa, and neither will anyone else with a quality PH and outfitter.

In every free range area I have hunted, my PH worked his ass off to find the best and oldest trophy that time and the area allowed. There was no charge by the inch and in Africa, like free range North and South America, I have no desire to participate in that model. Most of the trophy animals that I have taken in Africa easily qualified for Rowland and Ward.

A charge by the gram or centimeter above baseline is the model in most of Europe, and I accept it when hunting there. But, not in Africa.

 

[lhook7]

No

 

[mark-hunter]

The horn genetics is investment in fenced game ranches.
It does not surprise, that the price is charged per inch.

In free range area, where game moves freely in and out across the borders, this investment is impossible to manage and have financial return. I dont see who can release such bull in free range area for the benefit of natural gene pool.

On Namibian game farms, pricing per inch is not introduced (yet). But in their fenced area, most valuable game is in the fence. Such as roan, sable, colored variants of other game, etc
In Namibia Free range (unfenced) oryx or hartebeest will be cheaper then their fenced counterparts in South Africa.

In South Africa, this is real investement. This will certainly be returned through inches of horn pricing system.

In free range areas (unfenced).... I dont see it as feasible as in free range areas, and it would be more like turn off for me....
and there will be no guarantee, to shoot "Spotty", or "Fluffy", or whatever is their name. So, tape measuring clients will not pick this lightly.

In free range areas I am already paying high price just to be there, and just hope for old representative specimen. I dont need surprise unexpected cost, on already high cost safari.

Why this ‘superbuffalo’ just sold for R168 million

South Africa has a new ‘superbuffalo’ champion: Inala – a buffalo bull that was sold at auction for R168 million.

businesstech.co.za

 

[LopeChaser]

I look at variable pricing tied to the horn measurement as another variable as with daily fees and if add additional animals, get a lift from the airport, cost per day for an observer, if want the hunt videotaped, etc.

I would lean towards rather large increments of inches to bounce into the next higher price bracket as judging length on the hoof can lead to several inches of error.

My first and only hunt in Africa was in Limpopo, South Africa, and about half the animals of the eight I shot had sliding brackets. The only three species where a very exceptional critter could be be 2x or even 3x the cost of an average one was Cape buffalo, sable and kudu. I did not pass on any animal due to fearing the actual cost once was measured. I am not even sure if the ranch had many of the exceptional animals.

I was targeting mature animals and had no interest in "book or medal" attributes as I have never put an animal into a book though have taken a few in America that easily qualify. I went to Africa for the experience and was an amazing adventure from the long plane ride there to touching American soil again. I was a one and done guy re Africa and my buddies have never been to Africa so had no pressure on me to shoot something bigger than Joe or Frank.

 

[Doug Hamilton]

Assume you are hunting in Africa, free range area. The operator charges trophy fees on a sliding scale. Something similar to the gold-silver-bronze medal size seen on many European hunts.
Would you automatically not hunt with that outfit?

What if the scale only applied to animals that were not in large numbers but had some good trophy quality "out there"?

No.

 

[Hunt anything]

As long as everything is up front I don’t have a problem with it.
I was sorely tempted by a kudu in the Limpopo in 2021, my PH said he would go 59” and the farm owner said 60”. Both said it was a bull of a lifetime, but the cost went from something like $2,000 for a bull under 60” to $5,000 for 60”+. I wasn’t after kudu on that safari and if I was I don’t know if I would’ve shot it . Is an inch or two really worth the xtra expense? I still wonder what he would have measured, they told me a couple of months ago they never saw that bull again so no one will ever know.
For the record when I told my incredible wife about it she called me a dumb ass and said I should’ve shot it! I did get the klipspringer I was after as a consolation prize.

 

[grand veneur]

Sooner or later, something like a scale for fees will come to Africa. Hunting game, regardless of trophy size for a flat fee is an old system that is increasingly being replaced by a sliding scale for fees in many countries worldwide. As @mark-hunter wrote, having and maintaining nice trophy animals in a territory is an investment that needs to pay off, and something like a sliding scale for fees would certainly be worthwhile for the landowner. Anyone who harvested a bigger trophy and in all cases if he wanted to shot one, has to dig deeper into his pocket.That is actually fair, especially in an environment where the game population is heavy managed at high costs.

 

[Tally-Ho HUNTING SAFARIS]

Ok….I agree and disagree. I understand that the experience and quest is the trophy; however the last thing any of us want is for someone to walk in, look at our mount and ask “you went all the way to Africa and this is what you brought back. Was this a cull”?

I give you this scenario, I don’t want to impune anyone’s integrity but human nature is human nature. Please convince me I am wrong.

Mike is in Africa for a free range buffalo hunt for his very first time. Monty is his PH. Monty had a group of PG hunters last week and saw several very large buffalos several times in a defined area. Monty knows that Lynn will be there for his fourth safari. Lynn has requested Monty be his PH for the fourth time. Last year hunting PG Lynn said he was coming back for a large buffalo. Lynn tips like a drunken sailor.
Does Monty take Mike for the largest buffalo he can find or knows of? Monty is in the bush six days a week. Or, does Monty take Mike for an ok buffalo while reserving the biggest for Lynn?
Mike really wanted a very large buffalo and expressed his desire to Monty. However Monty knew Lynn was going to be there and would tip very well. So he took Mike for a so so buffalo.

In this scenario a sliding scale would help Mike get the trophy he desired. Up front he would book the size buffalo he desired.

its funny how people think animals just stay in same area and dont move around or change their habits or smell cows and leave to chase them, or see a full moon and totally become unpredictable, or follow better grazing, or...or...or...or...

 

[grand veneur]

its funny how people think animals just stay in same area and dont move around or change their habits or smell cows and leave to chase them, or see a full moon and totally become unpredictable, or follow better grazing, or...or...or...or...

Some of us are fully aware of this and also know what it to take to guide animals to a specific area and keep them there. Managing hunting grounds is part of our basic training as hunters, at least that's the case in Germany, where some of us also lease hunting areas that they had to manage. Certainly, some things cannot be directly applied to Africa, but creating artificial waterholes is a step in this direction. Different topic.

 

[grand veneur]

 

[mark-hunter]

Germanies hunting education and hunting examination is one of the toughest in the world.