Woodleigh 550gr .458 bullets loaded for Lott

[Aussie_Hunter]

@tarbe @Neale Have either of you tried and tested the Wodleigh PP SN? I've tested the 500grn RNSN on the range for accuracy and penetration and so far they look good and I plan on testing them on scrub bulls ASAP before using them on buffalo but was thinking if they are too soft maybe the PP version would be a better option, I'm thinking it would slow the expansion down a bit which may aid in more penetration. So far looking at the PPSN over the RNSN the only downside I have found is they are longer so will need to be seated deeper to maintain COL which will then give me less case capacity.

 

[tarbe]

Sorry @Aussie_Hunter - I have only used the 550gr, which are only offered in the RN SN.

 

[Neale]

Hey Aussie Hunter I have no experience with the 458 Cal.
I tried the 450gn RNSP in my 416 Rigby and I believe that they are too soft and did not perform like I wanted. Therefore I only use them for pigs. I am now using the 430gn Rhino solid shank in the 416R and they are perfect for big heavy game.
The Woodleigh 350gn 375 RNSP HD is a great projectile.
I use the PPSP Woodleighs in 35 and other sub calibres though and have had good results.

 

[Aussie_Hunter]

Hey Aussie Hunter I have no experience with the 458 Cal.
I tried the 450gn RNSP in my 416 Rigby and I believe that they are too soft and did not perform like I wanted. Therefore I only use them for pigs. I am now using the 430gn Rhino solid shank in the 416R and they are perfect for big heavy game.
The Woodleigh 350gn 375 RNSP HD is a great projectile.
I use the PPSP Woodleighs in 35 and other sub calibres though and have had good results.

What velocity were the 450grn RNSN travelling at, probably similar to what I have the 500grn travelling at out of my Lott? Yeah I see they have a "heavy duty" for the 375 now, do you know what the difference is with the HD? I purposely stayed away from Woodleighs for my 375 because of the higher impact velocity, I currently have Hornady DGX bonded loaded up at 2550fps for my 375, I was pretty sure the Woodleighs wouldn't like this velocity but with their HD I could be wrong. Iv'e recently loaded up the Woodleigh PP in my 308, 165grn steaming along at 2810fps, haven't tested them on pigs yet but they are proving to be accurate so far.

 

[Neale]

Aussie Hunter the 450gn average 2198 fps. I believe the HD just has a thicker jacket.

 

[CJW]

I have heard the Woodleighs are softer than other expanding bullets. Thanks for the info, I think I will stick with TBBC for buffalo.

I've heard of people being disappointed in the tbbc since they started making them again a few years ago. Something about going to guilding metal instead of pure copper? Have you had any of those issues?

Thanks

 

[CJW]

i have no personal experience with the 550gr bullet but ive often wondered why people use them. the 400gr .416" and 500gr .458" bullet weights have proven themselves over the years and if anything id say they are actually heavier then needed with modern bullets. with a modern premium bullet id say 450gr is more then enough for dangerous game using the 458 Lott.


-matt

Something I've never understood myself. Plenty of 300 gr 375's penetrate fully on buffalo every year, yet people get themselves tied in knots because of so much controversy in the 458wm and 500 gr bullets. Just step down 50 or 100 grains and you are easily at those "magical" lott numbers and you can still use your favorite rifle. Not to mention better trajectory and less recoil.

 

[IvW]

Something I've never understood myself. Plenty of 300 gr 375's penetrate fully on buffalo every year, yet people get themselves tied in knots because of so much controversy in the 458wm and 500 gr bullets. Just step down 50 or 100 grains and you are easily at those "magical" lott numbers and you can still use your favorite rifle. Not to mention better trajectory and less recoil.

Sectional density, penetration, momentum, heavy for caliber and shot placement is the recipe...458 Lott does what the 458 WM can never do but was designed to do.

You want to step down 100 grns buy a 404 Jeff or 416 Rigby simple as that if you intend hunting DG especially elephant...

How many elephant you shot or stopped with a 458 WM using 400 gr bullets?

Way to marginal for my liking in my profession anyway....

 

[Aussie_Hunter]

I've heard of people being disappointed in the tbbc since they started making them again a few years ago. Something about going to guilding metal instead of pure copper? Have you had any of those issues?

Thanks

I haven't managed to get my hands on any TBBC unfortunately. So far the testing I have done with Woodleighs looks good so I am going to give them a fair go, I'm confident they will do the job. I think Woodleighs are one of those bullets that seem to get the job done just fine but just don't look to pretty at the end of it.

 

[CJW]

Sectional density, penetration, momentum, heavy for caliber and shot placement is the recipe...458 Lott does what the 458 WM can never do but was designed to do.

What, beat it by a whopping 100-150 fps or so depending on loading? Even lott guys routinely load them down to 2150-2200 fps because of recoil and report shooting through elephants. And those are modern day win. mag. numbers aren't they? There are plenty of reports of guys shooting lengthwise through buffs and eles with modern day 45/70 loads with big flat hard cast bullets at 1800 fps. I've heard great things from some 45/90 guys too who roughly ballistically match the 458wm. Hell I saw a guy shoot crosswise through a buff with a 10mm pistol and a flat faced bullet.

Curious, do you dog the 450ne, 450/400 and 470ne too? Ballistically they are about the same or slower than good 458wm loads.

I'm not saying that a PH who can handle the recoil shouldn't be shooting a 500 jeff or 505 gibbs if they can shoot it straight, in fact I welcome it, but for the average tourist hunter you just don't need it if it makes affects your accuracy or pleasure of pulling the trigger. But, while I haven't ever stopped a raging elephant, I wouldn't feel like a moron before putting a 458wm solid into one.

 

[IvW]

What, beat it by a whopping 100-150 fps or so depending on loading? Even lott guys routinely load them down to 2150-2200 fps because of recoil and report shooting through elephants. And those are modern day win. mag. numbers aren't they? There are plenty of reports of guys shooting lengthwise through buffs and eles with modern day 45/70 loads with big flat hard cast bullets at 1800 fps. I've heard great things from some 45/90 guys too who roughly ballistically match the 458wm. Hell I saw a guy shoot crosswise through a buff with a 10mm pistol and a flat faced bullet.

Curious, do you dog the 450ne, 450/400 and 470ne too? Ballistically they are about the same or slower than good 458wm loads.

I'm not saying that a PH who can handle the recoil shouldn't be shooting a 500 jeff or 505 gibbs if they can shoot it straight, in fact I welcome it, but for the average tourist hunter you just don't need it if it makes affects your accuracy or pleasure of pulling the trigger. But, while I haven't ever stopped a raging elephant, I wouldn't feel like a moron before putting a 458wm solid into one.

Do you hunt DG or anything else with a 458WM? or is it just

There are plenty of reports of guys.....
I've heard great things.....
I haven't ever stopped a raging elephant.....

 

[IvW]

There are plenty of reports of guys shooting lengthwise through buffs and eles with modern day 45/70 loads with big flat hard cast bullets at 1800 fps.

Really?, WOW!!! Please, please provide further details I would love to read and see the reports from people who have shot lengthwise through elephants with 45/70 firing bullets at 1800 fps......It appears what I thought I knew about ballistics and my experience with stopping calibers for buff and elephant leaves a lot to be desired....

A hard cast bullet is made of only lead, is that correct?

I will immediately buy a 45/70 Pedersoli Kodiak double rifle chambered for this caliber that I know about(lying in a gun shop for a few years), un fired, for US$2500 and be done with all the proper stopping rifles then, cheap reliable double that can shoot length wise through elephants and buffalo, what more could a man want?? Especially with a double at that price....

 

[CJW]

Do you hunt DG or anything else with a 458WM? or is it just

There are plenty of reports of guys.....
I've heard great things.....
I haven't ever stopped a raging elephant.....

No I haven't killed anything with it but do we need to pretend that people don't shoot DG with it every year with complete success and that many PH's have used it with complete success and many preferred it? I don't need to find out for myself that penicillin is a proper antibiotic. Sorry, I don't have the money to prove that it will work in every situation. Do we need to pretend that powders and bullets are leaps and bounds better than 60 years ago? Also do we need to forget the ballistic facts that I laid out? Actually it appears you do. Again do you poo poo the 450ne and like calibers that are often heralded as great DG calibers?

There is plenty of 45/70 hunting info out there as well if you look. Is it the best for the situation? No. Did I say you should trade it for your stopping rifle? No. But you can't argue with the success of proper bullets and well chosen shots for a client rifle. Like I said, the 45/90 gets ballistics above 2000fps.

No, hard cast bullets are not made of only lead. They are about 10% tin and antimony mixture and 90% lead. They are almost twice as hard as a standard lead bullet. Perhaps someone else can verify the exact amounts.

Your hatred toward the 458 wm is stuck in the mid 20th century. And because you ignore facts and mostly because you take a less than adult tone I'm bowing out of this conversation.

I apologize for getting off track of the original post.

 

[IvW]

Please, please provide further details I would love to read and see the reports from people who have shot lengthwise through elephants with 45/70 firing bullets at 1800 fps......

I don't find any....thx