Why no hunting in India, and could it ever be re-opened?

[mark-hunter]

My apologies, I am spending too much time talking about me on a hunting thread.. sorry folks.

Dont worry!

When visiting USA at your daughters later, you can also take some rifle lessons, and once when you are confident in your skill, go hunting a plains game package, to Namibia, or South Africa with rental rifle.
You can also ask your outfitter to place you on a blind in a tree, where your rifle will have steady rest.

And then bring your trophies to India! (despite all odds!!) When there is a will, there is a way! And Africa is dream land to hunt!

Life is always too short, use it wisely!

 

[mark-hunter]

Human-animal conflict turns fatal: Locals suspected of killing tiger in Numaligarh

Villagers discovered the mutilated carcass—missing claws, teeth & tail—before informing forest officials

assamtribune.com

"Improvised hunting"

 

[bigborelover]

As someone from India , not a chance in Hell , especially with the current Govt. Also , my great grandfather was a hunter , he used a 12 bore shotgun and a .423 mauser rifle , both of which were kept int he family (legally) after the ban .

 

[grand veneur]

It is certainly true that hunting can contribute to the conservation of species, but the African hunting model cannot be transferred to a country like India for many reasons. The countries of Southeast and South Asia also have a very different economic dynamic than the countries in Africa, so that nature conservation and wildlife protection are not always a top priority. In Malaysia, the jungle has had to make way for oil palm and Hevea plantations. The trees of the jungle have also interested many. It will be no different in other countries on this part of Asia. Everyone also knows that this part of the world is very densely populated. All of this makes a reopening of hunting in all this countries and especially India, and its practice as we know it in Africa, rather utopian. It will always be necessary to shoot problem animals somewhere, but there will be enough local hunters who will be ahead of us in the line for these hunts.

 

[DieJager]

It is certainly true that hunting can contribute to the conservation of species, but the African hunting model cannot be transferred to a country like India for many reasons. The countries of Southeast and South Asia also have a very different economic dynamic than the countries in Africa, so that nature conservation and wildlife protection are not always a top priority. In Malaysia, the jungle has had to make way for oil palm and Hevea plantations. The trees of the jungle have also interested many. It will be no different in other countries on this part of Asia. Everyone also knows that this part of the world is very densely populated. All of this makes a reopening of hunting in all this countries and especially India, and its practice as we know it in Africa, rather utopian. It will always be necessary to shoot problem animals somewhere, but there will be enough local hunters who will be ahead of us in the line for these hunts.

The context is different indeed but controlled hunting of species can definitely be a boon to wildlife. Not every part is highly populated and to have another source of income while keeping nature undeveloped can be done.

This has to be in combination with a good government and willpower. Never say never.

 

[grand veneur]

The context is different indeed but controlled hunting of species can definitely be a boon to wildlife. Not every part is highly populated and to have another source of income while keeping nature undeveloped can be done.

This has to be in combination with a good government and willpower. Never say never.

Sure, we don't know, but I am not optimistic. It is better to do everything possible to preserve the areas we currently hunt, especially in Africa. I don't believe that things will continue like this with a political sphere of influence that is increasingly less Western-oriented. In Africa, there are countries that should not be activated, but rather encouraged to engage in organized hunting for foreigners. I am thinking of West African countries like Guinea Bissau, Guinea Conakry, Sierra Leone and Liberia, where hunting is permitted, even for foreigners, but where there is no infrastructure for foreigners to practice hunting. Another interesting topic.

 

[DieJager]

Sure, we don't know, but I am not optimistic. It is better to do everything possible to preserve the areas we currently hunt, especially in Africa. I don't believe that things will continue like this with a political sphere of influence that is increasingly less Western-oriented. In Africa, there are countries that should not be activated, but rather encouraged to engage in organized hunting for foreigners. I am thinking of West African countries like Guinea Bissau, Guinea Conakry, Sierra Leone and Liberia, where hunting is permitted, even for foreigners, but where there is no infrastructure for foreigners to practice hunting. Another interesting topic.

For sure there are some undeveloped gems. I know of one company that is offering big game hunts in Guinea Bissau (talked extensively to them but too much uncertainty and rather high prices) and also other ones in Liberia. Although the reports from Liberia are rather mixed on the density of game.

Malaysia has some nice hunting opportunities these days from saltwater crocodile, axis deer, bearded pigs, mouse deer to water buffalo.
Sudan had some opportunities until the recent conflict flared up. Talked to ProfiHunt on Jagd und Hund exhibition.

I'm rather positive minded but still we need to do all we can to preserve hunting. I try to motivate my fellow hunters also to step up their game and get involved in being board members etc. We will always be in the minority.

 

[bimbo]

Sure, we don't know, but I am not optimistic. It is better to do everything possible to preserve the areas we currently hunt, especially in Africa. I don't believe that things will continue like this with a political sphere of influence that is increasingly less Western-oriented. In Africa, there are countries that should not be activated, but rather encouraged to engage in organized hunting for foreigners. I am thinking of West African countries like Guinea Bissau, Guinea Conakry, Sierra Leone and Liberia, where hunting is permitted, even for foreigners, but where there is no infrastructure for foreigners to practice hunting. Another interesting topic.

Several years ago ,an european agenzy ,specialized for every hunting all around the world, did offered me an hunting land concession in Guinea Conakry ,camp inclusive, and my job could have been as PH .Duiker roan and savanna buffalo was in the menu.
All was ready... but a golpe of army's general, called Camara' ,have sent everything in the litter...it 's Africa...

 

[Tiger2001]

I lived and worked in India for a couple of years in the early 2000's and then in Nepal. I had one opportunity to go pheasant hunting--unofficially--with a retired Indian general named PK Pallet. He was one of (if not the only one left) "KCIO" King's Commissioned Indian Officers. Anyway I declined the offer as I worked at the US Embassy at the time and didn't want to be caught poaching. I of course always regretted it since but I know it was the right call at the time. Anyway there was a young Indian woman who was a regular at our equestrian club. She worked for Project Tiger and I remember asking her about tiger hunting in India ever being re-instated to provide conservation funds as is done in Africa. To my surprise she was for the idea but pointed out correctly that any exception for hunting would be exploited in India and by Indians in particular. One would always have the class status, money, or connections to find a way to hunt if they lifted the ban for foreigners to come for controlled hunts. For that reason she felt India had no choice to but to implement a total ban with no exceptions. I found her reasoning to be understandable all these years later. And as an Indian herself she was surprisingly introspective re her own culture. What she said was true.

 

[Tiger2001]

For sure there are some undeveloped gems. I know of one company that is offering big game hunts in Guinea Bissau (talked extensively to them but too much uncertainty and rather high prices) and also other ones in Liberia. Although the reports from Liberia are rather mixed on the density of game.

Malaysia has some nice hunting opportunities these days from saltwater crocodile, axis deer, bearded pigs, mouse deer to water buffalo.
Sudan had some opportunities until the recent conflict flared up. Talked to ProfiHunt on Jagd und Hund exhibition.

I'm rather positive minded but still we need to do all we can to preserve hunting. I try to motivate my fellow hunters also to step up their game and get involved in being board members etc. We will always be in the minority.

Would have any additional information on hunting in Malaysia to share?

 

[DieJager]

Would have any additional information on hunting in Malaysia to share?

Other than already shared not much to be honest. Some additional species can be hunted and I wrongfully stated Axis deer but meant sambar deer. HuntGeo is one of the companies that offers hunts there.

Did not hunt there myself. But still dreaming to go there someday.

 

[Hunter-Habib]

Would have any additional information on hunting in Malaysia to share?

Got a Sambar stag & two wild boars there. Boar is relatively easily to bag. Sambar is largely a matter of luck.

 

[Tiger2001]

Other than already shared not much to be honest. Some additional species can be hunted and I wrongfully stated Axis deer but meant sambar deer. HuntGeo is one of the companies that offers hunts there.

Did not hunt there myself. But still dreaming to go there someday.

Thanks for the tip. I wrote to HuntGeo last night but have not heard back yet.

 

[Tiger2001]

Got a Sambar stag & two wild boars there. Boar is relatively easily to bag. Sambar is largely a matter of luck.
View attachment 712925

Great photo Sir! Was this a while ago?

 

[DieJager]

Thanks for the tip. I wrote to HuntGeo last night but have not heard back yet.

I see that you're from Germany then I would contact Malepartus Jagdreisen. They have a whole section on their website regarding Malaysia with detailed pricing. It is in German and is a German company.

Mein Deutsch ist nicht so gut, ich spreche ein klein bisschen Deutsch. Ich verstehen das Gut.

 

[Hunter-Habib]

Great photo Sir! Was this a while ago?

Why, thank you. Yes, it was in 1980.

 

[rookhawk]

Hi, @towserthemouser

I'm Bangladeshi, not Indian. And I generally try to avoid making comments publicly about India, because whenever fellow forum members in the past have spoken critically about India, trolls have always joined the forum in an attempt to discredit them and this has always resulted in some very ugly public exchanges on these forums. I try to stay away from all that, because I last visited India many years ago and I have no intention of ever returning there except out of compulsion. Especially now that we (in Bangladesh) kicked out the previous pro-Indian bootlicking government and have a lot of ongoing tensions with India.

I don't know if you're aware of this or not. But last year, an Indian wannabe film maker made a documentary on You Tube about me and my tiger hunting stories without my consent by using information and photographs taken from my autobiography. I had to exert a great deal of effort in order to get that documentary removed.

But anyway, I'll answer your question in as diplomatic a way as possible.

Hunting was banned in India by the Indira Gandhi regime via the passing of the so-called Wildlife Protection Act-1972. A portion of the Hindu population in India consider the consumption of any animal products to be taboo. So hunting and even meat eating are big offenses to them. When Indira Gandhi came to power, a lot of her supporters had these religious beliefs. Her cabinet was full of these people and they also had agendas to remove Western culture from India. As well as to disarm India's Royalty (Maharajas, Zamindars, Nawabs, etc) and strip them of their wealth. And to tighten up laws on the import & ownership of firearms.


Although she herself was very anti hunting, Indira Gandhi initially had no plans to ban hunting in India. This was actually the brainchild of a British jerk (one of those so-called “Conservationists”) named Guy Mountford. He was a founder member of the W.W.F and he wrote a book called “Vanishing Jungles” where he wrote a lot of anti hunting garbage about East Pakistan (now Bangladesh) in 1969. He also eventually convinced Indira Gandi to implement the hunting ban in India.

Emboldened by Guy Mount Ford and his strong position in the WWF, Indira Gandhi enacted the ban in 1972. Import of firearms got formally banned in 1980. Laws on firearms ownership were tightened and starting from 1972... an Indian citizen could not keep more than three firearms (this was further reduced down to two in 2023). Furthermore, the 1972 act prohibits any Indian from owning any firearms at all if they live near any forested areas. Not that this did anything in order to combat poaching... since poachers employ folidol, snares, pit fall traps & locally made muzzle loaders.

Over the years since 1972, India's youth started becoming indoctrinated against hunting, firearms ownership & meat eating. For this reason, any Indian film or work of art which depicts hunters or gun owners or meat eaters... mostly portrays us in a very negative light. And Indian media loves to rip our kind to shreds.

In 2015, the Indian government finally realized that exploding populations of game is indeed becoming too much of a problem in rural areas to ignore. So they began to authorize the culling of blue bulls and wild boars. But none of the meat from the culled animals is (legally) permitted to be consumed by anybody. All of it is buried under the ground, because the Indian government would rather allow hundreds of thousands of pounds of fresh free protein to rot than to permit their citizens (including malnourished starving ones with absolutely zero aversion to meat eating) to commit the “Reprehensible act of consuming wildlife”. These are screenshots sent to me by one of the cullers. The wild boars are being thrown into the pit for burial. The blue bulls will also be given the same treatment.
View attachment 685261View attachment 685262
If I had my way, all of the fresh venison (from the blue bulls) and pork (from the wild boars that come to feed at the crop fields) would be freely donated to impoverished local communities. Or at the very least, sold for a subsidized price at a government auction (if the government is feeling like earning a little revenue to pay the cullers for their efforts & ammunition expenditure). The only game animals which I would sanction for 100 % carcass disposal... would be the wild boars that feed on the garbage dumps at the city outskirts. Since those are extremely likely to contain trichinosis in the meat. And they should be kept away from human consumption.

In my humble opinion, hunting will never be relegalized in India again. Newer generations have completely been indoctrinated against it. And the political party currently running the show in India... as as staunch vegetarians as is humanly possible. India also tried very hard to get hunting & firearms ownership banned in our country as well, through our previous government. Fortunately, they didn't succeed and that government has been ousted.

Hunting will survive in Pakistan and even thrive for future generations to come. Because newer generations are being introduced to it. In Bangladesh... at the very least, bird & deer hunting will survive because newer generations (especially those living in rural areas) see this as perfectly normal. But not in India.

Interestingly enough, it's only the politicians (especially the party currently in power in India), urban dwellers & people living comfortably far away from rural areas (i.e the hotspots of human-wildlife conflict) in India that champion the concept of a plant based lifestyle. The thousands of impoverished & starving rural Indians who have their crop fields and livestock routinely ravaged by fauna (of both the herbivorous or carnivorous varieties) on a daily basis feel very differently about wildlife & meat eating. To them, all those crop raiding & livestock killing fauna (whose populations used to formerly get controlled pre 1972 by licensed hunters) are either:
A) A delicious source of protein
B) A menace to their livelihoods
C) A source of hides & antlers to sell on the black market

@Hunter-Habib did a very good job explaining many of the factors as to why hunting is illegal in India. Because he's a gentleman and he certainly wanted to avoid appearance of ethnic/cultural/religious bias, he glossed over some points that I think I can make more frankly as an outsider of the region with no implied bias towards any of them.

Americans and Europeans have a false assumption that religious lunatics on the Indian sub-continent would be Muslim. This is not accurate, as illustrated by the fact that a Muslim majority population (Pakistan) allows hunting and India does not. Therefore, it is not a Muslim majority that wanted to ban hunting. Yes, there is a minority Muslim population that hates firearm hunting because under strict sharia interpretations, animals killed by firearm are not Halal. (Kosher) As he gently mentioned but should be pointed out boldly, Hindu extremism also exists and is a far, far larger barrier to legalized hunting. With a billion devout Hindus, many that abhor eating meat or injuring animals it is the far greater barrier to legalized hunting. So between the two religious fringes both Hindu and Muslim, you have a sizable minority that is anti-hunting. You then add the other thing India has in abundance, wealthy liberals that are class bigots. Just like in the West, the affluent Indian liberals think the poor people cannot have freedom because in the words of a friend that is a Brahmin "they'd kill and eat everything in sight the very first day it was allowed". Put all three of those minority Indian factions together and you have a majority will to prevent hunting in India.

Lastly, because of the horrible friction that occurred in greater India due to Neru and Ghandi's incredibly stupid idea to partition the three countries based on a religious basis, horrible massacres and expulsions occurred at the hands of every one of the major faiths in the region as forced relocations occurred on all sides. The net result is the average person doesn't want guns in India because they think "the other religion" will massacre their community if guns are legalized based on the atrocities that occurred during partition.

Between distrust of guns, religious fringe Hindus/Muslims that don't want hunting, and condescending liberal elites, India will never be a hunting destination.

 

[Pondoro]

Hindu lunatics..