Why lighter in a larger bore

[Pheroze]

Tinkering with a cartridge is fun, no doubt there. But, is a lighter bullet in a cartridge that shoots a 40 caliber bullet or greater a practical advantage? Considering what the design is for, does dropping down significantly in weight just try to make the cartridge do what it was never intended to do? I think that within 200 yards for a deer, it's still best to keep with the 400+ grain bullet that the cannon works with for the 50-yard buffalo shot. And, if you are shooting 300 yards, use a different cartridge designed for 300+ yards. Thoughts?

 

[Flewis]

If it’s a bolt gun you can do a lot with it. If it’s a 416, with 300 grain you could get to about 300 yards.

 

[mdwest]

Ive got some 300 gr bullets for my 416 Taylor.. mostly just for practice/fun.. The rifle is set up for DG only (iron sights, 1.5-5x optic, etc).. so I wouldn't be taking any long shots on PG or deer or anything else with it.. I just happened to find a couple of hundred 300gr bullets cheap a few years back, so I picked them up to use as range fodder..

For DG (I built it for buffalo), I strictly feed it 400gr Barnes TSX

 

[BRICKBURN]

It is certainly not intended to be a deer caliber.
Barnes 350 grain TTSX certainly shoots flat enough to do the job for a Deer, Elk or Moose out to 200.
I have much better options at 300 plus for certain.

ps. If I can ever encounter a deer while I'm carrying the 416 Rigby, I'll let you know how it works.

 

[IvW]

But, is a lighter bullet in a cartridge that shoots a 40 caliber bullet or greater a practical advantage?

No

 

[TucsonFX4]

I’m no expert here, but I would think that once you get much past the intended sectional density of the bullets for the cartridge, that you begin walking a very fine line of proper penetration and proper expansion.

I suspect it may become such a fine line that a specific setup may only be good for a limited size critter as well as a limited range (for example not close than 150 yards and not further than 225 yards). With other possible limitations of not able to punch through a shoulder or conversely not expanding on a broadside shot.

Others may have real world experience that tells a different story, and I do not have real world experience with this idea.

 

[Pheroze]

No

That is my thought too. Playing around with the idea brought me to the conclusion that I could shoot a 300gr bullet in the 40cal, but why? If I get within 200 yards, the 400gr bullet will be fine, I think. So the way I see it is that if I choose to carry a 40 Cal on a hunt for plains game, keep shots under 200 yards and stick to the normal loading.

 

[Flewis]

I’m pretty sure a 300 grain tsx or cutting edge raptor in 416 at 2500-2700 would work on thin skinned game but wouldn’t use it on DG.

 

[ZG47]

I have a Gun Digest at home, probably from the nineties wherein there is an article about shooting marmota with a .425 Westley Richards. The evil editor Ken Warner most probably, had insisted that the proposed article on reduced power lead loads, had to be on ground hog hunting. I will post the edition # and article title after I get home. Currently taking my elderly mother on her Saturday excursion.

 

[ldmay375]

It is certainly not intended to be a deer caliber.
Barnes 350 grain TTSX certainly shoots flat enough to do the job for a Deer, Elk or Moose out to 200.
I have much better options at 300 plus for certain.

ps. If I can ever encounter a deer while I'm carrying the 416 Rigby, I'll let you know how it works.

I agree. I like using the above .40's.
I consider my 416's outstanding for moose with the 350 TSX & TTSX. The 350 TTSX at 2500 fps definitely covers 200 yds easily. I consider it my 250 yard moose cartridge. Some like the 300 TSX for moose & bear.
I can say the 350 TSX at a slower 2360 fps has worked well on 2 moose.

The 458 Winchester with the 404 grain Hammer Bullets Shock Hammer at 2300 fps is another easy 200 yard combination.
The same bullet in the 458 Lott at 2500 fps, I consider a comfortable 250 yard moose cartridge.

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

I just don't get the messing with envelopes. If it was meant for X, designed for X, and does X well, why on earth would you want it to do Y? The word appropriate comes to mind.

 

[ldmay375]

Bullet, powder, and ammunition technology has definitely progressed since the introduction of the 458 Winchester; and considerably more since the 416 Rigby's and 404 Jeffery introduction.

 

[Kalthoff]

An expanding projectile has an impact velocity range, within which it expands well.

In general the current generation of "lead-free" projectiles have a higher optimal impact velocity range than current generation lead-projectiles.

Therefore if you want to, or are required to by law or the landowner, to use lead-free projectiles, then you will want the projectile to have a higher impact velocity, than if you fired a lead projectile from the same rifle.

"Lead-free" projectiles are what drives the current trend towards lighter projectiles for caliber.

 

[wolfhunter]

Why would you want to hunt moose with a 416 unless you had a grizzly up your ass

 

[Tam Dl]

Why muddy the whether threads with whys? Of course if one is seriously interested, I supposed there could be answers, such as:

1) Caught with the big gun when the small animal walks into the scene;

2) Prefer to take one rifle to countries that tax them;

3) As mentioned it could be bear country, or something similar;

4) Could be a process of building up familiarity or tolerance (or learning that one has neither) for a big bore.

5) Only own one rifle;

6) Spouse wondering that if it will take an elephant, why you need a deer rifle also, and you still waiting for the divorce to clear the courts.

7) Just like to know everything there is to know about one's rifle.

 

[Tam Dl]

I could see playing around with lighter bullets, where it would seem like a bad idea is if you can't get them to shoot a similar trajectory. If the BCs are significantly different that would happen beyond a certain distance. There can be kludges like rubber tipped bullets that might iron out the differences...

I don't worry too much about modern eco bullets as they can be made to do almost anything. There is a great X for the 30-30. But I would worry about what is available, particularly in Canada. probably some cast options.

 

[Pheroze]

Why would you want to hunt moose with a 416 unless you had a grizzly up your ass

Clearly a moose area

But I will move from this kinda of forest

To this

So I think for moose a good 40 Cal would be a good option. But I think about a lighter bullet for the "what if" that the beaver pond creates. lol

 

[ZG47]

I have a Gun Digest at home, probably from the nineties wherein there is an article about shooting marmota with a .425 Westley Richards. The evil editor Ken Warner most probably, had insisted that the proposed article on reduced power lead loads, had to be on ground hog hunting. I will post the edition # and article title after I get home. Currently taking my elderly mother on her Saturday excursion.

Just remembered that I needed to look up the above mentioned article. The rifle was actually a .404 Jeffery so … I was almost there with the bullet diameter:
Gun Digest 1994, 48th Ed., M’zee and the Marmota by Rob Lucas.

The article runs from pp.33-8 and is essential reading for anyone who intends to take on the mighty groundhog with a .404 Jeffery Nitro Express! Mr Lucas initially proposed a cast bullet whitetail hunt but Mr Warner insisted upon a groundhog hunt.

 

[ZG47]

Clearly a moose area

View attachment 515355

But I will move from this kinda of forest
View attachment 515356

To this

View attachment 515357

So I think for moose a good 40 Cal would be a good option. But I think about a lighter bullet for the "what if" that the beaver pond creates. lol

You just have to keep bragging about that view, don’t you?

 

[Pheroze]

You just have to keep bragging about that view, don’t you?

Every chance I get!

But, seriously, despite the change in view, I am not sure whether I should use the lighter bullet, or get stick with the standard 400 gr. I keep waffling on how much of an advantage it is.