why do people not use premium bullets?

[PerH]

There you go, I have only had brilliant results with the Oryx in 9.3 and 375 cal. This bullet penetrated 5’ of muscle and spine, in a perfect straight line and weighed 88% of original weight.View attachment 557687

Those 2 are different than .35 ones .

.35 one is thinner jacket and more brittle . In my experience . I so wish I had used Swift or Woodleigh instead .

Also the .35 is a compromise bullet for .35 W .358 Win and so on.

But no options for reload it was , and local cops had turned the previously 14 day license wait into 6 month plus without informing anyone so I had not received the 7mm yet by then.

First batches of 9,3 Oryx also was thin jacket on and soft , they changed the bullets through a few years and gradually changing them .

 

[Rule 303]

From what I have read the 358 Norma was a flop in Canada and Alaska as none of the 358 Cal bullets were made with a tough enough jacket to ensure reliable penetration on large animals.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

From what I have read the 358 Norma was a flop in Canada and Alaska as none of the 358 Cal bullets were made with a tough enough jacket to ensure reliable penetration on large animals.

@Rule 303
When Remington introduced the 350rem mag the 200gn bullet they loaded was a beefed up 200gn designed to handle moose.
Bob

 

[PerH]

From what I have read the 358 Norma was a flop in Canada and Alaska as none of the 358 Cal bullets were made with a tough enough jacket to ensure reliable penetration on large animals.

Yes ill try and find some picture from a article , but it was for .358 Win they used it . Kvale didnt want to make some New ones , as moose was thin skinned and In no need for them

Jens Perto loaded his with 250 Nosler and he fired them hard and flat . .270 Win ballistics

Then he Also used Woodleigh 310 soft , solid for it for Big game . Buffalo, elephant and many others .

Loaded bit harder than factory specs. Tested on Norma his ammo was.


Then Norma loaded a batch with Woodleigh 250 and later a batch 250 Swift and recent years , a Jaktmatch 230 grain fmj .

Then the Oryx and it should been something else .

That’s why I’m selling the .358 and swapped it out for a .375 Hh.

 

[CoElkHunter]

@Rule 303
When Remington introduced the 350rem mag the 200gn bullet they loaded was a beefed up 200gn designed to handle moose.
Bob

A Core Lokt.

 

[CoElkHunter]

Yes ill try and find some picture from a article , but it was for .358 Win they used it . Kvale didnt want to make some New ones , as moose was thin skinned and In no need for them

Jens Perto loaded his with 250 Nosler and he fired them hard and flat . .270 Win ballistics

Then he Also used Woodleigh 310 soft , solid for it for Big game . Buffalo, elephant and many others .

Loaded bit harder than factory specs. Tested on Norma his ammo was.


Then Norma loaded a batch with Woodleigh 250 and later a batch 250 Swift and recent years , a Jaktmatch 230 grain fmj .

Then the Oryx and it should been something else .

That’s why I’m selling the .358 and swapped it out for a .375 Hh.

Swap it out for a .338 WINCHESTER MAGNUM! LOL

 

[Tam Dl]

my new pet project (i fully intend to sell the rights to 35) is the 350-.50 BMG (Biden Must Go!)

Waste of time, the bad news is that is something that both parties have reached agreement on. "Be afrayed, be wary afrayed".

 

[Rule 303]

Yes ill try and find some picture from a article , but it was for .358 Win they used it . Kvale didnt want to make some New ones , as moose was thin skinned and In no need for them

Jens Perto loaded his with 250 Nosler and he fired them hard and flat . .270 Win ballistics

Then he Also used Woodleigh 310 soft , solid for it for Big game . Buffalo, elephant and many others .

Loaded bit harder than factory specs. Tested on Norma his ammo was.


Then Norma loaded a batch with Woodleigh 250 and later a batch 250 Swift and recent years , a Jaktmatch 230 grain fmj .

Then the Oryx and it should been something else .

That’s why I’m selling the .358 and swapped it out for a .375 Hh.

Just build your self a 358 RUM using the 338RUM case. Largest and toughest animal I have taken with this using 225 Grain APC- a monometal round- is a Giraffe.

Nah, stay with the 375 H&H. More frontal area and wat easier to ammo for.

 

[K95]

From what I have read the 358 Norma was a flop in Canada and Alaska as none of the 358 Cal bullets were made with a tough enough jacket to ensure reliable penetration on large animals.

That was the same story for a lot of cartridges, especially the 9.3 x64 even the 375 H&H had initial problems.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Yes ill try and find some picture from a article , but it was for .358 Win they used it . Kvale didnt want to make some New ones , as moose was thin skinned and In no need for them

Jens Perto loaded his with 250 Nosler and he fired them hard and flat . .270 Win ballistics

Then he Also used Woodleigh 310 soft , solid for it for Big game . Buffalo, elephant and many others .

Loaded bit harder than factory specs. Tested on Norma his ammo was.


Then Norma loaded a batch with Woodleigh 250 and later a batch 250 Swift and recent years , a Jaktmatch 230 grain fmj .

Then the Oryx and it should been something else .

That’s why I’m selling the .358 and swapped it out for a .375 Hh.

@PerH
I loaf 250s to 2,700 in my Whelen, Woodleigh and hornaday round nose and never recovered one in Namibia. The old round nose punched a golfball size hole out the other side of an oryx bull. I drive the Woodleigh at upto 300 fps faster than recommended and they still hung together.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

A Core Lokt.

@CoElkHunter
Yes mate a beefed up 200gn core lockt
Bob

 

[C.W. Richter]

Waste of time, the bad news is that is something that both parties have reached agreement on. "Be afrayed, be wary afrayed".But, to be VERY Clear, Be More Afraid of LibDemTardia. They have never earned a dime on their own merits and are pimped out by International $pon$sors. Just to be clear. LOL I've never seen any messages by you.

 

[akrifleman]

Those Remington Core Locs work, plain and simple. Along with the vast majority of those other cup and core bullets. And for the most part the premium bullet really isn't needed.

I moved on to the monolithic copper Barnes bullets 20+ years ago, but all of the animals that I killed before that time are just as dead when I shot them with that old trustworthy cup and core bullet

Core-Lokt are not cup and core. Gen1 were originally mechanically locked bullets (like partitions), and had a reputation for failing (as noted in many magazines of the day), but less so than cup and core of the day. As did most bullets from the "Era of Rotten Bullets". Core-Lokt were considered premium bullets (and are now bonded).

Rifles from the rotten bullet era also had more modest velocities (outside of Weatherby), and stories of bullet failure were still common.

Rifles now run much higher performance windows (even 100 yr old cartridges with new powders), and bullets are made much better. Doesn't mean a 100 yr old rifle cartridge and 100 yr old bullet design can't work, it just means technology has improved reliability.

 

[Velo Dog]

Core-Lokt are not cup and core. Gen1 were originally mechanically locked bullets (like partitions), and had a reputation for failing (as noted in many magazines of the day), but less so than cup and core of the day. As did most bullets from the "Era of Rotten Bullets". Core-Lokt were considered premium bullets (and are now bonded).

Rifles from the rotten bullet era also had more modest velocities (outside of Weatherby), and stories of bullet failure were still common.

Rifles now run much higher performance windows (even 100 yr old cartridges with new powders), and bullets are made much better. Doesn't mean a 100 yr old rifle cartridge and 100 yr old bullet design can't work, it just means technology has improved reliability.

I dunno that original Remington Core-Lokt bullets were ever in the same league as Nosler Partition bullets.
However, I do agree with you that the original Core-Lokt bullets were never the best choice for what I consider unnecessarily high Weatherby velocities, in any caliber.
Also, I don’t care for ultra-velocity cartridges, (“bah humbug” LoL), except for hunting rodents at long range with small bore cartridges.

At original .30-06 velocity I have, beginning around circa 1967, used 150, 180 and 220 gr .30 caliber Remington Core-Lokt bullets and experienced nothing but perfect success / 100% reliability, both in N. America (Nevada, Idaho, Alaska and Soviet Occupied California) plus Africa as well.

Likewise I’ve enjoyed the same 100% success with the old fashioned Hornady RNSP and their original Spire Point bullets both.
Here in Alaska, where I have lived for a tic over 41 years now, I’ve also experienced the same 100% reliability with the .375 H&H and both 270 gr and 300 gr RNSP, Core-Lokt Remington factory loaded ammunition (again the old fashioned, original Hornady RNSP as well).

Many USA hunters tend to waste way too much time and thought into reaching for extra high velocity for shooting hooved game.
I always recommend heavy for caliber, round nose soft point bullets, with plenty of lead showing at the tip, fired at “normal” velocities, for “normal” hunting ranges (out to only about 300 paces or so.

That said, my favorite premium bonded soft point is the Swift A-Frame.
These indeed work well for old timey cartridges, such as the .30-06.
And, they also hold together well even with the higher velocity cartridges, such as the Weatherby designed ones too.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I dunno that original Remington Core-Lokt bullets were ever in the same league as Nosler Partition bullets.
However, I do agree with you that the original Core-Lokt bullets were never the best choice for what I consider unnecessarily high Weatherby velocities, in any caliber.
Also, I don’t care for ultra-velocity cartridges, (“bah humbug” LoL), except for hunting rodents at long range with small bore cartridges.

At original .30-06 velocity I have, beginning around circa 1967, used 150, 180 and 220 gr .30 caliber Remington Core-Lokt bullets and experienced nothing but perfect success / 100% reliability, both in N. America (Nevada, Idaho, Alaska and Soviet Occupied California) plus Africa as well.

Likewise I’ve enjoyed the same 100% success with the old fashioned Hornady RNSP and their original Spire Point bullets both.
Here in Alaska, where I have lived for a tic over 41 years now, I’ve also experienced the same 100% reliability with the .375 H&H and both 270 gr and 300 gr RNSP, Core-Lokt Remington factory loaded ammunition (again the old fashioned, original Hornady RNSP as well).

Many USA hunters tend to waste way too much time and thought into reaching for extra high velocity for shooting hooved game.
I always recommend heavy for caliber, round nose soft point bullets, with plenty of lead showing at the tip, fired at “normal” velocities, for “normal” hunting ranges (out to only about 300 paces or so.

That said, my favorite premium bonded soft point is the Swift A-Frame.
These indeed work well for old timey cartridges, such as the .30-06.
And, they also hold together well even with the higher velocity cartridges, such as the Weatherby designed ones too.

@Velo Dog
I will admit I shyed away from round nose for a long long time. I was more interested in the petty pointed bullets.
After using a good old bog standard Hornady 250gn round nose in my Whelen I'm now a convert. The way the hit and penetrate is great.
Top that off they are amazingly accurate regularly cutting clover leaf groups with 225,250 and 310gn round nose.
Now a converted firm beliver in round nose for 80% of my hunting.

I'm even thinking of trying the 117grain round nose at 3,300fps in my 25. If'n it was good enough for Mr Weatherby in his 257 it should be fine in mine.
Bob

 

[grand veneur]

Core-Lokt are not cup and core. Gen1 were originally mechanically locked bullets (like partitions), and had a reputation for failing (as noted in many magazines of the day), but less so than cup and core of the day. As did most bullets from the "Era of Rotten Bullets". Core-Lokt were considered premium bullets (and are now bonded).

Rifles from the rotten bullet era also had more modest velocities (outside of Weatherby), and stories of bullet failure were still common.

Rifles now run much higher performance windows (even 100 yr old cartridges with new powders), and bullets are made much better. Doesn't mean a 100 yr old rifle cartridge and 100 yr old bullet design can't work, it just means technology has improved reliability.

I just read the article below where the author comes to the conclusion that there are no significant differences between the old and the new Core-Lokt bullet. Only the polymer tip seems to be an advantage as it protects the bullet.

I hunt for almost 50 years and bullets like the Remington Core-Lokt, Winchester Power Point or Silvertip were formerly the standard for high speed cartridges like the 7mm Rem Mag or the 300 Win Mag.

How The New Remington Core-Lokt Tipped Stacks Up Against the Original

We tested Remington’s latest update to the Core-Lokt line of hunting ammo—a polymer-tipped bullet at an affordable price.

www.fieldandstream.com

 

[CoElkHunter]

I just read the article below where the author comes to the conclusion that there are no significant differences between the old and the new Core-Lokt bullet. Only the polymer tip seems to be an advantage as it protects the bullet.

I hunt for almost 50 years and bullets like the Remington Core-Lokt, Winchester Power Point or Silvertip were formerly the standard for high speed cartridges like the 7mm Rem Mag or the 300 Win Mag.

https://www.fieldandstream.com/guns/new-remington-core-er tiplokt/

ev

Yep. When Remington added the polymer tip to their Core Lokt and Sierra to their Gameking bullets, the price for a box of ammo when way up.

 

[Velo Dog]

Plastic tipped bullets seem to be in style lately, like bell bottom pants and huge clunky shoes were in the 1970’s.

 

[Flewis]

The tipped bullet is here to stay. Much easier to make a sleek hunting bullet using it. I still use a lot of cup and core for deer hunting but in short barrels I use ballistic tips.

 

[CoElkHunter]

The tipped bullet is here to stay. Much easier to make a sleek hunting bullet using it. I still use a lot of cup and core for deer hunting but in short barrels I use ballistic tips.

I agree. I've been switching to Barnes TTSXs because they perform well in at least two of my rifles so far. But there's only a few dollars difference between buying the TSX and TTSXs and they're both great MONOMETAL bullets. My point was the large price increase for factory cup and core ammo when Remington and Sierra adorned their bullets with polymer tips. As an example, the factory .308W right now at Midway. Sierra Gamechanger tipped at $60/box. Remington Core Lokt tipped at $51 (on sale for $42). Standard Remington Core Lokt at $29. They don't show the non tipped Sierra Gameking currently but it was in in $32-35 range in the past. Barnes TTSX $55 now, I bought the Barnes when on sale a couple of months ago at Midway for $42. So, put a tip on your older designed cup and cores and jack up the price to the same or more than monometals? I'll pass on the hype and their "new" ammo.