Why avoid Hornady DG bullets and ammunition?

Discussion in 'Firearms & Ammunition' started by Paul Edwards, Jun 21, 2017.

  1. Paul Edwards

    Paul Edwards SILVER SUPPORTER AH Member

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    Velo Dog, I thoroughly enjoyed the recount of your hunt, informative, yes, but written so we'll I felt like I was right there!
     
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  2. Velo Dog

    Velo Dog AH ENABLER GOLD SUPPORTER SILVER SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    TYPO:
    Line 5 of my post above, should have said : "at the juncture of his throat and brisket, just RIGHT of center, not - just "left" of center, as I had posted, obviously without properly proof reading it first .... (ooopsie).

    And, thank you Paul Edwards, likewise I do enjoy your posts and style of writing very much as well.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2017

  3. Hank2211

    Hank2211 AH ENABLER GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    This is a repeat of something I mentioned in a hunt report. I was hunting buffalo with a .404 Jeffery, using Hornady bullets. After firing the first shot, and trying to load a second round, the gun jammed. Turned out that the bullets in the magazine had been pushed - by recoil - back into the brass, with the result that those cartridges were shorter than they should have been, and were hitting the chamber in the wrong place. Not something you want to have happen when a subsequent shot counts.

    When I returned home, I sent Hornady an email. They responded promptly, asking for a lot number. I provided it. They then told me that they checked, and that lot was fine. End of story.

    Well, I hadn't hammered the bullets into the brass.

    End of story for Hornady and Hank.
     
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  4. Royal27

    Royal27 AH ENABLER AH Ambassador

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    Surprised they didn't tell you that they never had the issue occur with their Ruger No 1 test rifle. :D
     

  5. CAustin

    CAustin AH ENABLER BRONZE SUPPORTER AH Ambassador

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    I am one of the people who have used Hornady DGS and DGX ammo in 416 Ruger with good result. I am Not an engineer nor am I a reloader. So all I can recount is my personal use of the product. I buy my ammo off the shelf practice with it and then go hunting. Nobody seems to doubt the record of the DGS round.......it's the DGX that often receives condemnation! My avitar documents the successful use of DGS ammo on the largest DG animal walking the earth.
    I have had no issues with the DGX round and have taken large game, giraffe, and DG , lioness and Cape buffalo, without incident. I pointed the rifle pulled the trigger and the intended animal fell dead. Results for me have been good. However lots of folks on this forum have had issues with the DGX round and documented the same here. My main DG rifle is the Ruger Guide Gun in 416 Ruger so my options are limited to Hornady ammo unless I were to engage someone to hand load ammo for me. I have a safe full of both DGS and DGX Hornady ammo and I will go hunting with it again. No doubt my son will as well when I can't take to the field anymore.

    image.jpg image.jpg

    The top picture clearly shows the thickness of giraffe skin. It's thick and tough. The bottom is a DGX round that penetrated the left front shoulder blade of the animal and traveled through the body to be recovered just under the skin on the far side of the body and back several ribs. It did what it was intended to do......killing the giraffe with the single shot. I can't argue with the results others have experienced and I don't know enough about various types of ammo to say if the spent round above retained the proper weight or if the jacket deformed properly. I just know that it worked well for me!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 21, 2017
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  6. Paul Edwards

    Paul Edwards SILVER SUPPORTER AH Member

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  7. Paul Edwards

    Paul Edwards SILVER SUPPORTER AH Member

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    Velo Dog, typo abounds in my reply, lol. I meant, "... written so well...." not, "... written so we'll...". Oops
     
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  8. Paul Edwards

    Paul Edwards SILVER SUPPORTER AH Member

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    CAustin-
    Thank you, impressive Ele. I now have a Ruger Hawkeye African and have found it much easier on the old shoulder than the 458. It is limited to the 416 Ruger round made by Hornady. I have only used the solids so far but have been happy with them. I never head out without already having fired at least a couple of rounds from each box of my off-the-shelf ammo at the range. Although I do some handloading for some of my ammo, not all, and I was beginning to think that I was the only one using off the shelf ammo. Clearly, you have had great success. Do you alternate between the DGS and DGX, following up one with the other, depending on the game? Thanks.
     
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  9. ActionBob

    ActionBob AH ENABLER SILVER SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    Of course the claim is always that a dead animal proves effectiveness. I have learned that there is a huge difference between luck and truly good bullet performance. Consistent top quality bullets are very reliable if used within their design parameters, and assuming the company claims are accurate.

    IMO, a bullet such as the 416 Ruger DGX pictured above is a prime example of a bullet that has lost all the lead out of it's nose, thus obviously loosing a lot of it's original weight. The jacket is obviously mushroomed back nicely, but to a much lesser diameter than it would likely be if it had the lead core properly bonded to it. I believe some of the rest of the story is, thank God it did not expand into a larger diameter as it would have shed momentum quickly without retaining it's weight thus may not have penetrated well. However, I'm sure to good shooting and a very good amount of luck, it killed the buffalo. I would not claim it performed well.

    This has been debated and discussed extensively on this forum and others, and most surely will be more. But to fuel this discussion some more... I offer the following picture and explanation below.....

    20170119_092021.jpg
    Left to right, The first 3 pieces of scrap are a factory loaded Hornady 250 grain GMX in 375 H&H that came out of my very dead leopard. (the shrapnel blew his lungs out, literally chunks hanging out the wound) That was a lot of luck from a prime example of how a bullet of that design is not suppposed to work. Then the long bent one and pounded down piece next are the same factory loads out of an Eland taken on the same hunt. I think there were 6 or 7 shots into that eland... None made a proper wound and he just kept going.

    Then 3rd from the right is a properly expanded and wight retained Federal Premium factory loaded 300 grain Trophy Bonded Bear Claw shot out of the same 375 H&H. That entered between the head and shoulder of a lion and was dug out of his opposite rear quarter by the skinner. To me, that is what a proper bullet should look like, most of it's weight retained, large controlled expansion, and penetrated exceedingly well.

    Next two are, of course TSX, those were 525 grain coming out of different 505 Gibbs rifles at 2300 fps, The second from the right was against the skin on the opposite shoulder of a giraffe. The last was a quartering away killing shot on a buffalo, that bullet left a wound channel I could stick my arm through. Went through the rumen, the diaphragm and lungs, and smashed through the opposite front should to rest against the hide.

    All three of these retained most of their weight, penetrated deep and had enough expansion to dump all the energy into the animal.

    Do you Hornady fans really want to continue to rely on luck or switch to something that actually performs the way a proper DG bullet should.

    BTW, 375 and 416 Ruger guys, Swift is loading factory ammo in A Frames as well as their new solid.
     

  10. Paul Edwards

    Paul Edwards SILVER SUPPORTER AH Member

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    ....uh, is this where I am supposed to genuflect?...

    All kidding aside, your input is appreciated ActionBob, albeit couched in a bit of sarcasm. I come seeking wisdom, not voices chiming back what I want to hear.
    I freely admit that I am a relatively newcomer and I have found, like in many aspects of life, one of the best means of getting wisdom is from those who have been there, done that, and who are will to share. So, I came to this forum and have found the sportsmanship I expected from serious, ethical hunters.
    I do take very seriously the need for 100% reliable ammunition and firearms in DG hunting. So, when I added the 416 Ruger to my 458 Win Mag and 460 Weatherby Mag (my two angry mules, one angrier than the other) I thought it best to glean from some experts more definitive information about what I was hearing on Hornady DG bullets and ammo.

    Your information, bullet comparison photo, and Swift mention are appreciated, thanks.
     

  11. CTDolan

    CTDolan AH Elite

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    They're loading the 375 Ruger but, to my knowledge, not the 416 Ruger.
     
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  12. Paul Edwards

    Paul Edwards SILVER SUPPORTER AH Member

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    CT Dolan, To my knowledge, also, they are loading the 375 Ruger, not the necked up 416 Ruger.
     

  13. CAustin

    CAustin AH ENABLER BRONZE SUPPORTER AH Ambassador

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    image.jpg
    Ok here is a DGX from a Cape Buffalo full on chest shot and was dug out of the belly of the beast some five feet back through his guts! This is after passing through the chest plate the heart and all that stuffed rumen! Did it deform properly? I don't know? Did it drop the buff...?? Yes it did! Did the bullet retain enough weight to satisfy those who have had poor performance??.......PROBABLY NOT!
     

  14. 375 Ruger Fan

    375 Ruger Fan AH ENABLER GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

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  15. CAustin

    CAustin AH ENABLER BRONZE SUPPORTER AH Ambassador

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    image.jpg
    image.jpg
    This is another DGX that went through a giraffe! Weight retention?? Did the petals open properly? I don't know! Giraffe dead! Yes.....yes he was!
     
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  16. Paul Edwards

    Paul Edwards SILVER SUPPORTER AH Member

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    CAustin, you got me laughing over here! Can't argue with that result,lol!
     
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  17. Royal27

    Royal27 AH ENABLER AH Ambassador

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    Actually, folks do doubt the DGS. You just don't hear about it as often. Its my belief that you don't hear about it as often not simply because it doesn't happen, but because the bullet isn't used nearly as often and the sample size is smaller.

    Here's a failed DGS, or a totally successful one, all depending upon your point view. My view? The bullet performed very poorly and not as it was designed to, or at least marketed to do. Now the animal ended up dead, so if your only criteria is a dead animal then yeah, luck was involved and the bullet "performed." I personally don't want to bring luck into DG hunting and an animal being dead, but that's just me.

    All of my statements above apply to the DGX as well.

    downloadfile-4 (1).jpg


    I have no issue with someone who purposely and consciously chooses to hunt with inferior performing equipment. Its their choice and perhaps part of the thrill to them, with black powder and bow hunting being two examples. What bothers me though is when people are told "its just as good" when the empirical evidence shows it isn't. Even the bullets you show Charlie certainly appear to be failures, despite the dead animal - they simply didnt perform as advertised by the manufacturer.



    There is plenty of information available for you to find the answers to these questions without even leaving AH, although its elsewhere too. My challenge to you is that you find out, and make an informed decision on more than a few dead animals. If after doing that you either decide you like the extra risk, that you don't care if you use an inferior bullet for DG, or that you don't believe the evidence supports the claim by many (myself included) that the bullet is inferior, then hunt with confidence!

    You really can argue the DGX/DGS results, and in my opinion, you should. :)
     
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  18. lwaters

    lwaters BRONZE SUPPORTER AH Elite

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    I was at my taxidermist and he had a client complaining about a barnes bullet that didn't open up on a brown bear. Three of them just went straight through with small woud channel.
     

  19. Paul Edwards

    Paul Edwards SILVER SUPPORTER AH Member

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    Thank you Royal27 for your input, and in particular your challenge to find the answers here (AH) and elsewhere to enable me to make an informed decision...

    Actually, that is what led me here initially, perhaps you missed my earlier posts regarding that as well as the seriousness with which I take DG hunting. My desire is not to justify hunting DG with inferior equipment, as I am certain you did not intend to communicate (another of my earlier post regarding only hunting with British Bests) but rather learning from experienced hunters the strengths and weaknesses of the bullets and ammunition I questioned upfront. Thank you.
     
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  20. Royal27

    Royal27 AH ENABLER AH Ambassador

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    No worries and wasn't intending to imply that you were, but rather that you were on the right path. Poor worded on my part. Continue your search and keep asking questions!

    Its how we all learn as you obviously know.
     

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