Which calibre

[Dr Ray]

Action Bob
I’ve been expecting your call when you arrived at Cairns.

 

[Bruce]

6 or 7 shots is ridiculous! That outfitter needs a serious wake up call!!!
Try that on Cape Buffalo and you will have a grave problem ( pun intended)

 

[BenKK]

Except to be one of the nostalgic calibers of old Africa

@Franko If you want to stick with CZ, go with one of their standard calibers. Sounds to me like you are going to want a 416 Rigby.

I was just on a water buff hunt in the NT and borrowed rifles. The outfitter had 375's and an open sighted 458 win mag. After many shots on the first buff with the 375 and finishing him with the 458, I just used the open sighted 458 for the next 3 bulls.

However the issue was not the caliber, but the Federal blue box 270 grain ammo that just would not penetrate. The outfitter was saving money by having clients use 6 or 7 shots of $100/box ammo rather than buying premium ammo for $190 and taking a buff with one, two, or maybe 3 shots..... It takes penetration.

I’m sorry to hear that an outfitter would provide 270 grain softs for use against buffalo in a .375H&H. I succeeded in using such ammo once - four or six quick shots on a big bull (not good!) - then lost one the very next time I tried. Such ammo is great for kudu, etc! But not for buffalo. Quality 300 grain (or more) projectiles are required in .375H&H.

 

[BenKK]

I wouldn't go that far, more like uninformed on bullets, ballistics, and their performance on bulls.

A point he made was that he always knows he can go to town and buy a box of Federal blue box 270, other ammo availability can be more sporadic. So he could just sight in for that.

I would counter that with better planning ahead he could keep a supply on hand of good stuff.

At least we did not lose a buffalo over it. Did have to track one down but that happens.

I'm told the locals shoot them with a 308. That seems a bit unethical.

I’m a local and often use a .300H&H and have used a .308. It isn’t unethical if you use the right bullet and put it in the right place. The last big bull I saw go down was hit by a 175 grain copper bullet through the heart and made a distance of four metres. The big bull I shot a few weeks back with my son (picture on here somewhere) made no more than forty metres with a 180 grain TSX through the heart.

 

[BenKK]

6 or 7 shots is ridiculous! That outfitter needs a serious wake up call!!!
Try that on Cape Buffalo and you will have a grave problem ( pun intended)

I guarantee anybody that any time you experience the need to use five-plus shots on a buffalo it’s because a mistake was made on the first shot. Having shot about two-hundred, I’ve learned a lot of lessons.

The legends of tough buffalo are stories of errors made - I know, because I’ve been there and done that.

These days, using quality bullets, the majority of my buffalo (whether shot with the .300H&H or the .500 Jeffery) are killed with a single chest shot. At times the number may be three shots, even when everything is done right: The first shot, a shot on the run (after which the bull drops) and a safety / insurance shot if unsure. Sometimes two shots might be made on the run after a mortal first shot; or sometimes two insurance shots might be made (long grass situation, for example). So three or four shots can still equate to good shooting. But once the coal gets really poured-on and the stories (including my own) are of six to ten or more, unfortunately it is due to operator error on the first shot (or bullet failure).

 

[Franko]

Dr Ray, you've pretty much summed up where I'm at! I looked at some rifles yesterday, but nothing grabbed me.....

 

[BeeMaa]

I’m a local and often use a .300H&H and have used a .308. It isn’t unethical if you use the right bullet and put it in the right place. The last big bull I saw go down was hit by a 175 grain copper bullet through the heart and made a distance of four metres. The big bull I shot a few weeks back with my son (picture on here somewhere) made no more than forty metres with a 180 grain TSX through the heart.

Sir, you are experienced with buffalo to say the least.
Much more so than most clients will ever be.
That said a client needs to be proficient and accurate with the rifle and cartridge they are using.
For a client to use a 300-450 grain quality bullet on buffalo is insurance against the lack of experience.

I agree with Dr Ray.
I have and would use my 375H&H on buffalo, but given the choice I would have 416 Rigby built for the task.

 

[BenKK]

Sir, you are experienced with buffalo to say the least.
Much more so than most clients will ever be.
That said a client needs to be proficient and accurate with the rifle and cartridge they are using.
For a client to use a 300-450 grain quality bullet on buffalo is insurance against the lack of experience.

I agree with Dr Ray.
I have and would use my 375H&H on buffalo, but given the choice I would have 416 Rigby built for the task.

I do agree that a 9.3mm or .375H&H would be the ideal cartridge for a first-timer (with proper bullets, of course). A combination of nerves and excitement, perhaps some obstructing long grass, and the nuances of the subtle ways buffalo can shift their bodies ever-so-slightly that alters the required shot angle... It can be daunting.

A little story... Some years ago I thought I was an experienced buffalo hunter, having killed about thirty-five or forty, mostly with .416 Rigby, .458WM and .500NE. Well, one day the station manager asked me to do some culling, and when he offered the use of a scoped Zastava .375H&H, I correctly thought it might be advantageous over my .458WM which had a good-sized front bead. The aim was to eliminate a couple of small herds. Nearly all my buffalo hunting to that point had been with open sights. Well, I sneaked into the mobs and that scoped .375H&H was like a little x-ray machine to the heart. I didn’t need to shoot buffalo more than once, I could simply move immediately to the next beast, each animal showing the immediate signs of a destroyed heart. It taught me that by deliberately picturing the heart as opposed to just “the chest”, things went more smoothly and required fewer bullets. Using that scoped rifle for that little spell even honed my use of open sights, strangely enough.

 

[BeeMaa]

I was taught something similar.
My Grandfather said to aim small, miss small.
It has served me well.

 

[TOBY458]

I shot the bull in this video 4 times. The first shot was into the heart, but the rest were also well placed. The caliber is 375 H&H with Barnes 300gr TSX. I doubt the other shots were really needed, but I always like to make sure the animal goes down as quickly as possible.

 

[BeeMaa]

Quick dispatch of a formidable bull.
I expected a well placed first shot, but very nice shooting on the run.
It reminds me of instinctive shotgun shooting, also called the Churchill method.
You become one with the gun, when the sights line up, squeeze the trigger.
I'm better doing this with open sights or low power optics.
How you are able to transition to moving and shooting was neat to watch.
Bravo.

 

[BenKK]

Nice shooting, Toby!

 

[Franko]

Well, an almost new 416 Rigby came up for sale. Rare beast in Australia so I grabbed it. CZ 550 Safari Classics.
Wish me luck!

 

[stug]

Nice, they bite though. I watched a guy shoot one for the first time, scoped himself 3 out 4 shots.

 

[JPbowhunter]

Well, an almost new 416 Rigby came up for sale. Rare beast in Australia so I grabbed it. CZ 550 Safari Classics.
Wish me luck!

Saw that on ozgunsales i reckon, good price!

 

[Franko]

Nice, they bite though. I watched a guy shoot one for the first time, scoped himself 3 out 4 shots.

Thanks! I'm a little concerned too....

 

[Franko]

Saw that on ozgunsales i reckon, good price!

That was the one, it's my avatar

 

[BeeMaa]

Nice, they bite though. I watched a guy shoot one for the first time, scoped himself 3 out 4 shots.

Getting a scope with long eye relief is critical for this exact reason.
Somewhere around 3.5 - 4 inches should be good.
Big rifles eat up some real estate in a hurry.
I like the Leupold VX-6HD 1-6x24 or VX-5HD 1-5x24.
Rugged, dependable and a good value for the money.

 

[Franko]

Getting a scope with long eye relief is critical for this exact reason.
Somewhere around 3.5 - 4 inches should be good.
Big rifles eat up some real estate in a hurry.
I like the Leupold VX-6HD 1-6x24 or VX-5HD 1-5x24.
Rugged, dependable and a good value for the money.

I'll be shooting open sights first up!