Where have all the Swift A-Frames Gone?

[Art Lambart II]

I don't order Swift bullets anymore, I buy them in-person at the SCI convention in Nashville. Every year Swift has a booth at the SCI convention and they have bullets on-hand for all the DG calibers. The Swift booth is my first stop of the day, they have A-Frames and Scirocco II in stock ready for sale. Last year I bought all the 286 grain 9.3s he had left (3 boxes).

 

[Doug3006]

Well done.

The quality of men, and the few women, are what make this forum so enjoyable.

Agreed! Before I deplete another member’s supply. I’ll try GB. Nonetheless, the force is strong here!

 

[dlmac]

Nobody wants to work for the wage they are paying is a better statement. I asked when they will be running 35 caliber A-Frames at SCI this year and was told there were no immediate plans to run them. Luckily Northfork makes a good bonded bullet that is available. Too bad about Swift's troubles, I prefer to support American companies.

Well, that is true, but it is also true that people think that they are worth more than they are. And as long as they can live in the basement they will hold out. As a hospital trustee, we paid out 500K just to pay off loans then paid the newbie 300k with no experience. Then had to hire a second physician to pick up the slack because the first hire did not want to do much call. They think all professions are 9-5, no weekends or holidays.

 

[skydiver386]

I don't order Swift bullets anymore, I buy them in-person at the SCI convention in Nashville. Every year Swift has a booth at the SCI convention and they have bullets on-hand for all the DG calibers. The Swift booth is my first stop of the day, they have A-Frames and Scirocco II in stock ready for sale. Last year I bought all the 286 grain 9.3s he had left (3 boxes).

Tried that. They sold out all the .458's within the first hour or so.

 

[Hyde Hunter]

well folks, I spoke to Bill today about the 250 grain A-Fames and he said they will not be produced until next year as there is not enough demand for them. He said anyone wanting them should go on the site and put in a back order request for the amount you would like. That way he can get a better idea of what he should run. Also for you that want to shoot the 300 grain .375 it will be next year also for those, so he said the same thing get them on the back order list, so that is the word.

 

[Russ16]

well folks, I spoke to Bill today about the 250 grain A-Fames and he said they will not be produced until next year as there is not enough demand for them. He said anyone wanting them should go on the site and put in a back order request for the amount you would like. That way he can get a better idea of what he should run. Also for you that want to shoot the 300 grain .375 it will be next year also for those, so he said the same thing get them on the back order list, so that is the word.

I have to think that 300 gr 375 bullets would be close to the top of the list when it comes to demand.

 

[358 Norma]

I buy as many as I can afford when they become available, I am short on 375 300gr A-Frames though. I will have to buy a few boxes the next time they are available.

 

[John the Electrician]

Guys,

I have no dog in this fight. However, I do know a few things about hard business. I was 12 when my mom tells me that the tire factory my dad worked at was going to close down and 2,000+ people were going to loose their jobs. Dad started a construction company.

The guy who owns Swift Bullets is an old guy. He happens to run a business in the middle of nowhere, because that’s the hand he was dealt. Probably started as nothing and would cost millions to relocate. He happens to make an above average product.

Let’s not pretend he can just pay more wages, or move the company; business is too complicated for such easy solutions. If he charges 50-75% more per bullet, that’s not the answer as so many other qualified competitors exist in his exact market.

Business is hard, really hard, there are hundreds if not thousands of influences on why a guy would or would not choose to modify any slight nuance of his business model. Simple math, regarding the “just pay your people more” every single person who works for me would gladly accept a $10 an hour wage increase. That would bankrupt my company in about 4 months.

If I raised my hourly rate $10 an hour in probably 18 months we would have zero back log of work. Meaning only the most desperate and least likely paying customer would hire me. I would go bankrupt.

I am guessing the bullet business in Kansas is hard. Let’s not vilify this guy because he is an anomaly with a great product in a really challenging industry.

YMMV.

John the electrician

 

[mdwest]

At some point Bill will likely sell, unless he has a son/daughter that is planning on taking over the business. My guess is one of the larger firms will buy swift… a year after that the factory will be co-located with whoever buys them, and will likely be retooled and expanded..

Until then, it’s simply going to be hard to get a-frames.. they aren’t needed for 99% of North American hunting… and the market for anything 375 or larger in the US is tiny… we represent a very small piece of the hunting world…very few people care much about premium projectiles.. and even fewer care about DG hunting…

All of the above is why I’m a Barnes guy… for whatever reason I never have a problem finding boxes of 300 gr 375 TSX or 400 gr 416 TSX on the shelf at the Cabela’s in my DFW suburb… and anything smaller than 375 is not plentiful..

I love the A-Frame… but as much as I shoot, the unobtainable factor has ruled them out for me…

 

[Mtn_Infantry]

Simple answer really. I’m the customer. I get to choose where I live, what I do for a living, and more relevant to this discussion, what I buy. Swift has a business problem. It’s not limited to just this one customer. They are not meeting market demand for their products. Not only is this lost opportunity, but it also forces buyers to seek alternatives. Once they find suitable alternatives, they are lost possibly for good.

The owner has the right to stay right where he is and continue to disappoint his customers. I have the right to buy other bullets.

You’re 100% right he has a right to stay where he is, but him not increasing his production doesn’t mean he’s disappointing his customers. He’s a business owner trying to make a profit and at the end of the day if he thought making more of something was smart he’d likely do it because he’s a small enough privately owned company to pivot and do something like that.

None of us know or understand his production and costs. You might be “disappointed” but he might only have 1%, 10%, or 50% of the production commitment/forecasts to justify another shift, or the capital investment project to add another machine, swap a machine to something bigger or faster, add another building because he’s at capacity. Increasing production isn’t always as easy as flipping another switch, adding another person or two, staying open a little later, or adding another machine. There are costs associated with it and typically if a smaller company isn’t doing them, there’s a financial reason for it.

 

[375Fox]

At some point Bill will likely sell, unless he has a son/daughter that is planning on taking over the business. My guess is one of the larger firms will buy swift… a year after that the factory will be co-located with whoever buys them, and will likely be retooled and expanded..

Until then, it’s simply going to be hard to get a-frames.. they aren’t needed for 99% of North American hunting… and the market for anything 375 or larger in the US is tiny… we represent a very small piece of the hunting world…very few people care much about premium projectiles.. and even fewer care about DG hunting…

All of the above is why I’m a Barnes guy… for whatever reason I never have a problem finding boxes of 300 gr 375 TSX or 400 gr 416 TSX on the shelf at the Cabela’s in my DFW suburb… and anything smaller than 375 is not plentiful..

I love the A-Frame… but as much as I shoot, the unobtainable factor has ruled them out for me…

On his TIA podcast he said he and his son do all the bullet testing. I hope the Son is equally interested in the bullet business to keep it going. The big manufacturers have the ability to make a competing bullet to swift and have chose not to. I think the market is likely too small for a bullet like the A Frame. Federal already has a trophy bonded bear claw. Hornady would be unwilling to say the DGX could be improved and seems uninterested in bonded bullets. Nosler already has a Partition and Accubond. I hope it stays a small business focused on quality if it ever is sold.

 

[BryceM]

The idea of hoarding bullets or powder or toilet paper is amusing to me. Who gets to define hoarding? Who gets to set the limits? Free markets work and they eventually sort all this stuff out. Market controls come from the sort of government us shooting and hunting types tend to dislike. Don't like it? Buy when the getting is good, buy on the secondary market, buy from custom ammo folks, or contact the producers directly. If it's bad enough, use a competing product. Can't find anything you like? Start a bullet manufacturing business (Barnes, Hunter, CEB.......)

 

[RedTag]

Some of us were prepared for the shortages of the last few years. Most of us were not. I sold a bunch of old primers (or perhaps not so old after all) and a whole bunch of partition bullets like 8 or 9 years ago because they were just sitting on the shelf, I wanted some cash for another project, and figured it’d all be easy enough to replace when I wanted. Yeah, wish I hadn’t done that.
Now I won’t say anything against any business with regards to supply and demand in and of itself; that’s on us as customers to figure out on our own time and dime. Quality is another story. I have bought loaded ammo in the last few years that is pure garbage. Turning out inferior quality products merely to satisfy demand is unacceptable. If a smaller business is able to maintain their expected standard of quality, while selling enough to cover their costs, turn a decent profit, and keep their doors open, all without selling out to a big capital investment firm, then they’re doing fine in my humble opinion. I will try to plan ahead (particularly for the less common stuff) so as not be caught out by the inevitable supply chain problems that are all but certain to be the reality going forward.
I should’ve bought more when prices were low and supplies were high. I shouldn’t have sold some of the guns/ammo/loading supplies that I sold. I should have put all my money in gold 25 years ago… I can think of a hundred other things I should have done better or differently. I guess that’s life. God
Be Praised I bought 40 acres of land in Alaska before the real estate market went nuts!
The old players are on their way out or they’re being bought up by investment capital firms caring little about the tradition of the hunting and shooting sports. What we really need in the guns and ammo industry are more NEW companies making high quality firearms, ammunition and components. Of course this is easier said than done…

 

[sgt_zim]

I have no idea the size of Swift but Barnes is in a small town called Mona about 30 minutes south of me. I’ve always been suprised at how much product comes out of the small foot print they operate out of.

Manufacturing monolithics is a great deal simpler than bonded lead core - more or less just copper wire stretched to appropriate diameter with stamping/forming/polishing. I imagine a great deal more tooling is involved for Swift and NF.

 

[BJH65]

It’s interesting for years Remington loaded the Swift A Frame going back to the 90’s when I first used them. I’m assuming Swift received some type of royalty or percentage but I don’t know what business agreement they had with Remington but they seemed to be readily available as loaded ammunition for many years through Remington.

Of course Remington went bankrupt in 2020 and Remington’s ammunition assets were purchased a couple times with a Czech Group purchasing it in 2024. If you go back to the 80’s, basically the then innovative Trophy Bonded Bear Claw invented by Jack Carter and Swift A Frame bullets who I’m not sure who the original inventor was, were basically small home garage startups utilizing Corbin Manufacturing Swaging press which are fairly affordable using human power only, to reshape the copper and lead through a die specific for the caliber.

By subsequently designing these superior bullets for large tough game, initially selling to reloaders, then garnering an excellent reputation in the field, this caught the eyes of the big name ammo companies like Federal and Remington who started loading them after reaching business agreements with TBBC and SAF which I believe were very profitable for them.

I think the big ammunition companies could task their engineers to make a superior dangerous game bullet but as stated previously by others, there’s no money in it. Anyone here, if you so desired, could purchase a Corbin swaging presses between 3-5K, design your own bullets using their custom dies and they sell the raw copper and lead tubing. You need a class 6 FFL in the U.S. to sell just the bullets.

 

[Challer]

Last week on the phone they told me they would run 300 grain bullets in .375 before the end of the year. I imagine they run the big stuff once per year, or maybe even less, depending…..

They took an order from me a couple months ago for 100 300gr 375. Said the run would be this fall sometime

 

[Mark Bijkerk]

This thread explaines a lot to me….I’m living in Europe and for some years now it’s impossible to find any swift A frame’s here on this continent. I was able to buy 416’s in Nashville last January but it’s a bit expensive to travel half the globe to buy some bullets.
Next time I’ll also buy 9.3 and 8mm.

 

[coreydb]

He been saying that for the last 3 years…the truth is he is very comfortable selling the 30 cal and smaller scirocco line products. More sales and less risk.

HH

Yep.....the bird in the hand...

 

[sgt_zim]

This thread explaines a lot to me….I’m living in Europe and for some years now it’s impossible to find any swift A frame’s here on this continent. I was able to buy 416’s in Nashville last January but it’s a bit expensive to travel half the globe to buy some bullets.
Next time I’ll also buy 9.3 and 8mm.

286 gr cal .366 is THE one bullet they've consistently had in stock since the early days of the scamdemic. they probably just had a huge run of them in 2019/2020 and this is still from that.

 

[Mark Biggerstaff]

I shoot Swift factory in my 458 Lott, Afames mostly and have been stocking every time I see available.
Booked an Elephant hunt for 2026 and wanted some Break Away solids for it and there has not been any around in awhile. Called Swift about month ago and spoke to a really nice lady. I had 3 boxes in the mail within a couple days for the hunt in 2026. So there is some ammo floating around in plant they keep on hand, just have find right person I guess to talk to.