What is the max range of shotgun slugs?

[Wyatt Smith]

In Illinois the minimum is 20 gauge for hunting deer @Ridge Runner. I could see if working well in a bolt action however.

 

[Ridge Runner]

In Illinois the minimum is 20 gauge for hunting deer @Ridge Runner. I could see if working well in a bolt action however.

My thinking is toward using T/C Encores, pump actions, auto loaders strong metal guns. Not to use the cheaper grade single shots where a higher pressure round could damage the gun and/or cause personal injury or worse.

 

[Wyatt Smith]

I was thinking a Mauser, or No.4 enfield, built as a single shot. Something strong. It’s starting to sound like a 405 Winchester.

 

[rookhawk]

First WITHOUT researching any ballistics data what is the maximum range of a(ny) shotgun slug? Using deer and boar size game.

12 gauge 2 3/4"

a. 50 + yards
b. 100 + yards
c. 500 + yards

Since I haven't researched any of the other gauges maybe some of you other ballistics guru will post your findings.

Accuracy is agrumentively based on type of sight(s)/scope used, barrel type rifle or smooth bore and barrel length.

If you guessed c. 500+ yards without looking at ballistic charts you are correct.

Now look at the ballistic charts to find out what your favorite slugs have for maximum range.

Going up listening to others and reading which slug was better. I like most (maybe everyone) just assumed shotguns weren't meant for shooting anything past 30, 40, 50 yards. Which was true for the day (era) ammunition/ 2 3/4 inch shots shells. Then the 3 inch chamber followed by the 3 1/2 inch chamber and the ever more better quality of todays ammunition slugs and shot shells.

One night I was running ballistics data on some reloads on one of my rifles and one of my 44 Rem Mag revolvers. I noticed a box of 12 gauge slugs on one of the ammo shelfs 1 ounce slug, 1886 FPS. Roughly 200 fps faster than 44 mag and just less than the 458WM.

After running 3 different brands of 12 gauge slugs ( none were sabats, lead slug only) in 2 3/4 and 3 inch shells through ballistics calculators, I have learned and determined that the shotgun has been the most underrated firearm for big game hunting.

The 410 has been noted for being the best ballistically gauge (because it is a caliber) shotgun for deer hunting.

What are your thoughts and dare I say opinions on this subject about using slugs and taking the shotgun to a whole new level.

Been here, done that. I’ve built about a dozen slug rifles over the past seven years. Maximum ethical shooting distance based upon both residual energy and accuracy is about 275 yards. This is with very precisely designed 20 gauge platforms with very prescriptive cartridges. These capabilities are on $5000 rifles

The limiting factors that cannot be overcome are many. Free bore. Inherent inaccuracy of sabots. Velocity. Factory ammunition requirements. The fact you cannot make brass cartridges as they would be illegal (over 50 cal). The challenges are many.

For much longer accuracy in no-rifle states you need to go to custom Muzzleloaders with in-line ignition systems. For $8000-$12000 you can own a 700 yard accuracy Muzzleloader.

At the end of the day, it’s stupid money for a pretty crappy gun in any of the cases above. A $300 .243 and a tasco scope can outperform them all….if legal.

 

[rookhawk]

@Ridge Runner in most states slug guns are restricted to 20 bore and larger. I’d looked into making .410, 28, and 32 bore slug rifles for long range accuracy since they were smaller than 50 cal and brass cartridges exist. No plan.

 

[C.W. Richter]

500+ yds!? ?? ??? LOL Please be mindful of the Moon, for it controls gravity, which in-turn controls the world's oceans, which once again control the Weather on Earth. What's the Energy of that 1 oz slug at 500 yds, and how does that compare to the minimum required for that ballistic to effectively kill game? And, does Fred Bear's gen. 1 pin sight have enough elevation to keep it on-target??? Any huge ballistic less-than screaming out of the bbl at some paltry 1800 or less fps V is bound to find its useful life inside 1/2 or more that distance! (akin to a 45-70 w/ 2x the bullet size.)

 

[Ridge Runner]

500+ yds!? ?? ??? LOL Please be mindful of the Moon, for it controls gravity, which in-turn controls the world's oceans, which once again control the Weather on Earth. What's the Energy of that 1 oz slug at 500 yds, and how does that compare to the minimum required for that ballistic to effectively kill game? And, does Fred Bear's gen. 1 pin sight have enough elevation to keep it on-target???

To be honest I would have to go to the ballistic calculator to give the exact foot pounds of energy at 500 yards, but it was around 300+ which is enough to do the job on most deer size game and feral hogs.

Slug drop is lol something like 5+ feet at 500 yards(?), again I would have to revert back to the ballistic calculator to give the exact drop, wind drift, etc.

I did the ballistics back in 2019(?) in prepping for a quota draw hunt where I would be setting up along power lines: 100+ yards wide by approximately 1 mile long.

I ended up killing (about a 3 year old) doe which is what my license was only good for, (using my rangefinder) at 140 yards on a 15° down angle. Two shots first one high over her back. Second shot hit behind the shoulder. I found her balled up about 15 yards at the bottom of the hill.

 

[Ridge Runner]

@Ridge Runner in most states slug guns are restricted to 20 bore and larger. I’d looked into making .410, 28, and 32 bore slug rifles for long range accuracy since they were smaller than 50 cal and brass cartridges exist. No plan.

I don't know about most states. The only states I've hunted deer in that required shotgun only (Ohio)(before 1982?), certain areas/counties of North Carolina, and Tennessee (currently) limit the maximum gauge as 10 gauge no minimum since often times a youngster is carrying a .410 or maybe a 20 gauge on their first deer hunt.

Been here, done that. I’ve built about a dozen slug rifles over the past seven years. Maximum ethical shooting distance based upon both residual energy and accuracy is about 275 yards. This is with very precisely designed 20 gauge platforms with very prescriptive cartridges. These capabilities are on $5000 rifles

The limiting factors that cannot be overcome are many. Free bore. Inherent inaccuracy of sabots. Velocity. Factory ammunition requirements. The fact you cannot make brass cartridges as they would be illegal (over 50 cal). The challenges are many.

For much longer accuracy in no-rifle states you need to go to custom Muzzleloaders with in-line ignition systems. For $8000-$12000 you can own a 700 yard accuracy Muzzleloader.

At the end of the day, it’s stupid money for a pretty crappy gun in any of the cases above. A $300 .243 and a tasco scope can outperform them all….if legal.

Just saying, here's a couple of recommendations:

Check out Ballistic Products at one time they had 12, 20, 410, brass casings for reloading shotgun shells.

As an active member in the National Muzzleloading Rifle Association I recommend you check out the long range shooting competition using side lock "chunk" guns. Which are considerably under $8000.00 starting price, shooting out to 1000 yards.

Curious, Just asking:

I'll have to look up the bullet diameters for 505, 600NE, 700NE, 800NE, caliber rifles, but I'm fairly certain they are over .50 caliber.

By definition aren't slugs considered to be cartridges rather than shot shells?

 

[rookhawk]

The rounds we love that are Nitro Express over 50 cal are grandfathered sporting cartridges. It appears BATF does not allow new development over 50 cal center fire. This was explained to me by the owner of tarhunt, hence why he could not make a very strong 20 bore “nitro” cartridge but instead had to stick with paper/plastic shotgun hull. He was even uncomfortable with the legalities of loading magtech all brass shotgun shells.

I’ll tell you this, sabots and free bore are the reasons you cannot get greater than 275 yard accuracy from a slug rifle. The bullets get too heavy and you exceed SAAMI service pressures of 13,000 trying to get any meaningful velocity out of bore diameter bullets.

The best solution to date is a custom barrel of 12 bore OD and a 20 bore chamber at 3”. Then using the rem PRA20M 3” shells that are saboted roughly 340gr bullets at real-world 1775 fps. Free-bore and the plastic sabot accuracy are still the limiting factors.

Going to a muzzle loader of 45 cal where you can practically run a 250gr bore riding bullet swayed precisely oversized with a smokeless or Blackhorn 209 load, charged by a magnum 215 rifle primer as the ignition system is a path to much greater accuracy.

In the end, they are still very ugly guns and it pains me to look at them in my rack. Laminate nonsense with muzzle brakes all because we cannot shoot rifles for deer.

 

[Wyatt Smith]

I am going to build a 300 Blackout pistol on an Ar15 converted to single shot. It fits into a loophole in Illinois state law. With a stabilizer brace and low power scope it should make an ok deer weapon.
It just seems wrong to hunt deer with an AR 15.

 

[rookhawk]

The legalities from BATF on why you can’t make accurate slugs over .500” for your review. You run into legal definitions of “destructive device”.

Firearms - Guides - Importation & Verification of Firearms - National Firearms Act Definitions - Destructive Device | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

Previous Page Download this Section Download the Guidebook Next Page Firearms Verification National Firearms Act Definitions Destructive Device 26 U.S.C. § 5845(F) For the purposes of the National Firearms Act, the term “Destructive Device” means: A missile having an explosive or incendiary...

www.atf.gov

 

[rookhawk]

I am going to build a 300 Blackout pistol on an Ar15 converted to single shot. It fits into a loophole in Illinois state law. With a stabilizer brace and low power scope it should make an ok deer weapon.
It just seems wrong to hunt deer with an AR 15.

Yep. You just need a “kali-key” single shot bolt. The problem is they are likely to outlaw arm braces federally or consider them SBRs at which point the Illinois 300AAC single shot AR pistol loophole will close.

 

[Wyatt Smith]

Yep. You just need a “kali-key” single shot bolt. The problem is they are likely to outlaw arm braces federally or consider them SBRs at which point the Illinois 300AAC single shot AR pistol loophole will close.

This is very possible. At which point I’ll sell it sell it someone who gives a darn. Until then it may make a good experiment.

 

[C.W. Richter]

To be honest I would have to go to the ballistic calculator to give the exact foot pounds of energy at 500 yards, but it was around 300+ which is enough to do the job on most deer size game and feral hogs.

Slug drop is lol something like 5+ feet at 500 yards(?), again I would have to revert back to the ballistic calculator to give the exact drop, wind drift, etc.

I did the ballistics back in 2019(?) in prepping for a quota draw hunt where I would be setting up along power lines: 100+ yards wide by approximately 1 mile long.

I ended up killing (about a 3 year old) doe which is what my license was only good for, (using my rangefinder) at 140 yards on a 15° down angle. Two shots first one high over her back. Second shot hit behind the shoulder. I found her balled up about 15 yards at the bottom of the hill.

500 is inhumane. 1000 is the preferred min. (Not to mention the Velocity required to put that slug into the vitals! I can assure you a .22 Mag does better at that range.) That puts you at 250 aiming at the North Star. LOL

 

[Ridge Runner]

500 is inhumane. 1000 is the preferred min. (Not to mention the Velocity required to put that slug into the vitals! I can assure you a .22 Mag does better at that range.) That puts you at 250 aiming at the North Star. LOL

500 inhumane?
1000 is the preferred min?
Velocity required to put the slug into the vitals?
250 aiming at the North Star?

What are you talking about??

 

[C.W. Richter]

500 inhumane?
1000 is the preferred min?
Velocity required to put the slug into the vitals?
250 aiming at the North Star?

What are you talking about??

500 fps (a Crossman 760 bb gun tops that!) LOL 500 yds no bueno w/ shotgun. 1,000 ft-lbs E. 3rd sentence don't understand. LOL (What is the bullet mfr's min suggested V to effectively penetrate the animal and have the bullet do its job? A: Not what someone randomly says on an internet forum.) Consult Tesla CEO for the answer to the last! Something about a trajectory worse than a longbow?

 

[supergrizzly]

I once sat at the range as a guy next to me dropped Lightfield Sabots into a 4 inch circle at 200 yards all day long. He was shooting a New England Firearms Ultra Slugmaster single shot with the heavy barrel and laminated stock. I asked him about it and within a week dropped the $169 (at the time) for one too. Mine shoots just as well at 200 and one hole, 3 shot groups at 100 yards, but now that Lightfields have become unavailable, and my supply has dwindled, I am forced to drop a lot of money to sort out a new load. Currently, the Remington Accutip Sabots are leading the testing but are hard to come by too. I shoot 2 3/4 loads. In SE PA it is hard to come by shots further than 100-125 yards but I have killed many deer at those distances.

 

[rookhawk]

I once sat at the range as a guy next to me dropped Lightfield Sabots into a 4 inch circle at 200 yards all day long. He was shooting a New England Firearms Ultra Slugmaster single shot with the heavy barrel and laminated stock. I asked him about it and within a week dropped the $169 (at the time) for one too. Mine shoots just as well at 200 and one hole, 3 shot groups at 100 yards, but now that Lightfields have become unavailable, and my supply has dwindled, I am forced to drop a lot of money to sort out a new load. Currently, the Remington Accutip Sabots are leading the testing but are hard to come by too. I shoot 2 3/4 loads. In SE PA it is hard to come by shots further than 100-125 yards but I have killed many deer at those distances.

Let’s deconstruct your claim. (Which I believe and know what it was the case by the way)

1.) Those total piece of sh%t NEF Ultra Slugmaster 20 gauge guns that sold at Walmart on sale for $130 are now worth $800. And they were total, total Sh%t. But they had one thing going for them, there is one major barrel maker for slug barrels in the world, Americans know them as “Hastings” and this forum knows them as Verney Carron. Yep, those $130 single shot shotguns that had trash stocks, soft strikers, and 12lb triggers had double rifle barrel tubes attached to them. Add to that, they were “Down bored” where the 12 gauge gun was actually a 10 gauge O.D. Barrel and the 20 gauge gun was actually a 12 gauge O.D. Barrel. Heavy barrels matter a lot.

2.) A lightfield slug was the most accurate bore-riding slug you could get. Tarhunt did 30 years of testing and found this to be the case.

The problem wasn’t and isn’t the 4” groups at 200 yards, the problem is they lose accuracy profoundly and unpredictably thereafter. For even better accuracy in that gun or others, usually the 3” Remington Accutip 20 gauge PRA20M is the most accurate for two reasons. The real-world 1775fps (published as 1900fps) helps with the velocity and the 3” shell reduces free-bore getting the sabot closer to the lands. And that does bring up the other benefit, the sabot allows for a lighter bullet that is only 340gr which gets you longer reach and a bit more predictable results past 150-200 yards.

After all this is said and done, you still need a scope with a ballistic turret based upon real-world ballistic observations for a given load. Can my slug rifles kill game at 250+ yards? Yes, but you have to range precisely and dial your turret to victory.

 

[supergrizzly]

rookhawk,
Great points and I get what you are saying and basically agree but mine has held its accuracy after possibly 400-500 shots as long as I throughly scrub the barrel after every 50 shots or so. Sabot plastic fouling will destroy accuracy. I agree wholeheartedly that the gun was made cheaply but with the laminate stock and heavy barrel it has performed admirably for me and lock up is still as tight as the day I got it. Mine is a 12g but friends have has simiar experiences with the 20g. If it had only lasted me 5 seasons I would have gotten my money's worth but I have probably had it for 15 years now (not sure exactly) and am very happy with the performance. I agree with the scope points too. Mine wears a standard 3x9 but my shots are never past 125 or so and usually under 75. $800??? Really?

 

[Wahoo]

I have a fair bit of real world experience shooting those guns. Briefly the 12 ga which while accurate is fairly masochistic to shoot; it hasn’t seen the light of day in years. The 20ga ultra slug hunter is quite reasonable to shoot. It does in fact shoot the 3” accutips well ( as good as you witnessed or better if I do my part). I have a scope on it with a turret burned for that load so yes it’s also true it makes it much easier to dial The distance. It also shoots the 3” Remington loaded Barnes expander slug very very close to the accutips. I also have a youth/compact slug hunter in 20ga. I think barrel maybe an inch or 2 shorter and stock slightly shorter. I have an old leupold vx3 plain Jane scope on it (no whiz bang whirrley magical thingy). Sighted in at 150 it does really well from 0-175 yds without much thinking of hold over. Both guns are way better accuracy wise than most any others I’ve seen. Purdey best they are not. More like weblos level woodworking merit badge sufficient fit and finish. I paid under $200 for each one. Fortunately I had an opportunity through a friend for good deal on a decent scope with turret for the ultra slug. The deer don’t laugh at us though.

The firing pins are a known aggrevation and we’ve replaced them in these with custom ones machines by a friend because they weren’t hardened correctly and would deform/shorten over time.

Interesting thing about the accutips is if you take a box of them and press the slug down into the shell/sabot generally there is some movement. We have found that ensuring you seat them into the shell as hard as your thumb allows without crying it will often eliminate the random flyer in a group. I haven’t seen anything but accutips where this is a thing.