Walking a mile in their shoes....

[steve white]

Someone gave me a real moment of pause the other day. We were discussing the outrageous conduct of the owner of a local shooting range. He gets on almost everyone's nerves, and if it can be believed, when I once got the DSC young professionals group to agree to paint and fix up his buildings free of charge as a service designed to keep shooting ranges extant... HE TURNED US DOWN FLAT, stating that he was going to sell the place so it didn't matter! That was years ago, and he has long since resigned himself to the notion he may never sell it.

BUT...right at the height of our chatter, the owner of an ammunition shop who was front and center in the discussion, came up with a brilliant observation. The owner of the shooting range had been raised from childhood at the shooting range, even playing with baby toys behind the counter, and had therefore BEEN EXPOSED TO LEAD POISONING HIS ENTIRE LIFE. The classic symptoms include, outbursts and beligerent reactions, etc. etc. all of which we had unknowingly observed. Conclusion: cut the guy some slack--walk a mile in his moccasins.

I wish the anti-hunters would walk a mile in the local africans' tire tread flip-flops. The locals don't care a whole lot that you took a great picture of wildlife--they have consistently shown they care that you, a hunter, were generous with the meat you shot, and thereby fed their families!
I am proud that hunters often undertake water purification projects, road improvements, (well, not so much road improvement that the bush gets over run...) well drilling, and funding school construction through our revenues. In the opinion of the locals, who really cares the most about the plight of the everyday African--camera toting tourists, or gun toting hunters?
Conclusion: walk a mile in their moccasins. Their vote may keep hunting protected and economically viable. A satisfied local population is the bedrock of hunting access. The money talks, too--and not just in the tourist friendly areas, but in the hard bitten, tsetse fly scourged Jesse which no tourist wants any part of.

Maybe the hardest place for me personally, is to walk a mile in the moccasins of those with near parallel interests in wilderness....perhaps a Sierra Club member who is a bit contemptuous of big game hunting, etc. To understand their concerns for wildlife, and find common ground to help them see that we are BOTH interested in some of the same things, without myself being contemptuous of their viewpoint is my challenge to overcome. Some day, if populations continue to grow and habitats continue to shrink, we won't have the luxury of dividing ourselves on matters of conservation.

Maybe we'll find that we wear a bit closer shoe size than we thought?

 

[Frostbite]

Well, you have to keep in mind that some of us, as we get older, simply don't want to kill anything anymore.........maybe because we see death in our headlights.

Hemingway refused to shoot an elephant--said they were too big and important.

Jack O'Connor shot an elephant and refused to shoot another elephant--said it was uncomfortable--elephants were too intelligent.

Jim Corbett developed a love for tigers after killing so many and turned instead to conserving them.

I shot my first coyote a few years ago and upon reflection, refused to shoot another ever again.

It was too much like shooting a dog.

So, while I'm all in favor of others hunting--I've reached a point in my life where it's not for me.

We should all be more willing to walk in the shoes of others.

 

[375Fox]

I like the intent of your post. The first area I hunted in Africa was Jan Oelofse safaris in Namibia. They perfectly combined hunting and photo tourism to maximize the value from land. I wish there were more operations like that. I’ve hunted other areas where photo tourism was taking place but it was never a partnership between hunting and tourism usually at odds in several ways. Something that really upsets me here is I see too many hunters classify every non-hunter as an anti-hunter. I think a lot more would agree conservation is the goal if some hunters didn’t go out of their way to alienate them and they didn’t do the same. I haven’t watched this in a while but I thought it was a great speech on the logical reason hunting is necessary. I was shocked how many AH members would criticize it because it’s not necessarily 100% pro-hunting refusing to identify any middle ground even though a non-hunter did.

 

[Doug Hamilton]

Someone gave me a real moment of pause the other day. We were discussing the outrageous conduct of the owner of a local shooting range. He gets on almost everyone's nerves, and if it can be believed, when I once got the DSC young professionals group to agree to paint and fix up his buildings free of charge as a service designed to keep shooting ranges extant... HE TURNED US DOWN FLAT, stating that he was going to sell the place so it didn't matter! That was years ago, and he has long since resigned himself to the notion he may never sell it.

BUT...right at the height of our chatter, the owner of an ammunition shop who was front and center in the discussion, came up with a brilliant observation. The owner of the shooting range had been raised from childhood at the shooting range, even playing with baby toys behind the counter, and had therefore BEEN EXPOSED TO LEAD POISONING HIS ENTIRE LIFE. The classic symptoms include, outbursts and beligerent reactions, etc. etc. all of which we had unknowingly observed. Conclusion: cut the guy some slack--walk a mile in his moccasins.

I wish the anti-hunters would walk a mile in the local africans' tire tread flip-flops. The locals don't care a whole lot that you took a great picture of wildlife--they have consistently shown they care that you, a hunter, were generous with the meat you shot, and thereby fed their families!
I am proud that hunters often undertake water purification projects, road improvements, (well, not so much road improvement that the bush gets over run...) well drilling, and funding school construction through our revenues. In the opinion of the locals, who really cares the most about the plight of the everyday African--camera toting tourists, or gun toting hunters?
Conclusion: walk a mile in their moccasins. Their vote may keep hunting protected and economically viable. A satisfied local population is the bedrock of hunting access. The money talks, too--and not just in the tourist friendly areas, but in the hard bitten, tsetse fly scourged Jesse which no tourist wants any part of.

Maybe the hardest place for me personally, is to walk a mile in the moccasins of those with near parallel interests in wilderness....perhaps a Sierra Club member who is a bit contemptuous of big game hunting, etc. To understand their concerns for wildlife, and find common ground to help them see that we are BOTH interested in some of the same things, without myself being contemptuous of their viewpoint is my challenge to overcome. Some day, if populations continue to grow and habitats continue to shrink, we won't have the luxury of dividing ourselves on matters of conservation.

Maybe we'll find that we wear a bit closer shoe size than we thought?

I find it impossible to recognize any value in those that say they are for conservation and want hunting outlawed. They seem to believe that if we would not hunt the animals would all get along and there would be no suffering. I even had one tell me that starvation didn't hurt as much as a bullet. These are the people that get anti hunting initiatives on the ballot. Sorry Steve. I just can't bring myself to work with those that refuse to look at the proven history of modern hunting in conservation even if we both want healthy wildlife populations.

 

[375Fox]

I find it impossible to recognize any value in those that say they are for conservation and want hunting outlawed. They seem to believe that if we would not hunt the animals would all get along and there would be no suffering. I even had one tell me that starvation didn't hurt as much as a bullet. These are the people that get anti hunting initiatives on the ballot. Sorry Steve. I just can't bring myself to work with those that refuse to look at the proven history of modern hunting in conservation even if we both want healthy wildlife populations.

You described both an uneducated non-hunter and an anti-hunter and lumped them together. I hate the flight to Johannesburg where the photo tourists next to me ask why I’m going to Africa. I see their faces change when I say I’m going hunting. I’ve also seen a lot of light bulbs go off when I start describing outlying areas from the National parks they are visiting and ask them what justifies wildlife there. Hunting to conserve in Africa is a counterintuitive principle and very different than if deer hunting was stopped in the USA for several years.

 

[Doug Hamilton]

You described both an uneducated non-hunter and an anti-hunter and lumped them together. I hate the flight to Johannesburg where the photo tourists next to me ask why I’m going to Africa. I see their faces change when I say I’m going hunting. I’ve also seen a lot of light bulbs go off when I start describing outlying areas from the National parks they are visiting and ask them what justifies wildlife there. Hunting to conserve in Africa is a counterintuitive principle and very different than if deer hunting was stopped in the USA for several years.

No, I do not lump both of those factions together. I do what I can to educate the naive non-hunter. The problem is that non-hunters and anti-hunters are often though not always the same people. My contempt is addressed to the anti-hunting faction. I have no desire to work with them on any level even if we both want good game herds.

I do know what you mean about the flights to Jo'burg though. I've even had South Africans tell me that they didn't believe in hunting. They have no clue who pays for conservation.

 

[steve white]

I hear you, brother. Nobody said it would be easy. It's not for me.

 

[cwpayton]

Well, you have to keep in mind that some of us, as we get older, simply don't want to kill anything anymore.........maybe because we see death in our headlights.

Hemingway refused to shoot an elephant--said they were too big and important.

Jack O'Connor shot an elephant and refused to shoot another elephant--said it was uncomfortable--elephants were too intelligent.

Jim Corbett developed a love for tigers after killing so many and turned instead to conserving them.

I shot my first coyote a few years ago and upon reflection, refused to shoot another ever again.

It was too much like shooting a dog.

So, while I'm all in favor of others hunting--I've reached a point in my life where it's not for me.

We should all be more willing to walk in the shoes of others.

say again why you are on this forum? you shot a coyote a few years ago and never again,?

 

[cwpayton]

Well, you have to keep in mind that some of us, as we get older, simply don't want to kill anything anymore.........maybe because we see death in our headlights.

Hemingway refused to shoot an elephant--said they were too big and important.

Jack O'Connor shot an elephant and refused to shoot another elephant--said it was uncomfortable--elephants were too intelligent.

Jim Corbett developed a love for tigers after killing so many and turned instead to conserving them.

I shot my first coyote a few years ago and upon reflection, refused to shoot another ever again.

It was too much like shooting a dog.

So, while I'm all in favor of others hunting--I've reached a point in my life where it's not for me.

We should all be more willing to walk in the shoes of others.

Trying to see your point from your shoes. are you a retired academic, professor, teacher?
YOUVE reached a point where hunting is not important, ok , accepted, but do you still kill flies, spray for ticks, smash spiders, scratch chiggers, swat mosquitos? just curious because if you do you still hunt like it or not. are you a vegetarian and allow someone else more debased and gross than you to do your killing.
Do you kind of find god in nature?
Do you even believe in God?
Oh and by the WAY I wouldnt get to wrapped in HEMMINGWAY, he committed suicide , not withstanding he lived life to a full schedule ,including war and hunting Africa. Finally settling in Idaho, good choice.
So what kind of man are you leather shoes or plastic . electric car or Gasoline ,combustible.
Cappuccino with whipped cream or black coffee?
do you ride a bike often?
Did you attend the no kings protest as a participant.
would you rather old joe be president for another 4 yrs.

 

[375Fox]

Trying to see your point from your shoes. are you a retired academic, professor, teacher?
YOUVE reached a point where hunting is not important, ok , accepted, but do you still kill flies, spray for ticks, smash spiders, scratch chiggers, swat mosquitos? just curious because if you do you still hunt like it or not. are you a vegetarian and allow someone else more debased and gross than you to do your killing.
Do you kind of find god in nature?
Do you even believe in God?
Oh and by the WAY I wouldnt get to wrapped in HEMMINGWAY, he committed suicide , not withstanding he lived life to a full schedule ,including war and hunting Africa. Finally settling in Idaho, good choice.
So what kind of man are you leather shoes or plastic . electric car or Gasoline ,combustible.
Cappuccino with whipped cream or black coffee?
do you ride a bike often?
Did you attend the no kings protest as a participant.
would you rather old joe be president for another 4 yrs.

What’s your problem with his post? It says he’s 79 years old. My grandpa walked into the woods every year with a rifle but I can never remember him pulling the trigger. Some people want to be around hunting but lose the interest to kill. It happens. Your post is really out of place.

 

[steve white]

What’s your problem with his post? It says he’s 79 years old. My grandpa walked into the woods every year with a rifle but I can never remember him pulling the trigger. Some people want to be around hunting but lose the interest to kill. It happens. Your post is really out of place.

It's all a bit broader than that. If an older man owns land and reserves some of it unplowed, he is providing habitat for quail and other birds. If he puts it in CRP, the same. There are myriad ways to contribute to the success of wildlife survival. If he votes right, if he teaches right values to children and grandchildren. If he permits hunting access to his land. It could go on and on.

 

[Betterinthebush]

I shot my first coyote a few years ago and upon reflection, refused to shoot another ever again.

It was too much like shooting a dog.

I understand losing one’s bloodlust. That said, if you’re a conservationist/hunter (or once was) I would offer this; coyotes are a scourge on fawns. Fewer fawns = fewer opportunities for hunting now and in the future.

My father is 84. He likes seeing deer, hunts and rarely shoots. He has also seen new calves torn to shreds and his son and daughter not sleep for days and weeks during lambing season because of them. He is an ace dog killer.

Damn a coyote. I see them, I dose them.

 

[Frostbite]

I understand losing one’s bloodlust. That said, if you’re a conservationist/hunter (or once was) I would offer this; coyotes are a scourge on fawns. Fewer fawns = fewer opportunities for hunting now and in the future.

My father is 84. He likes seeing deer, hunts and rarely shoots. He has also seen new calves torn to shreds and his son and daughter not sleep for days and weeks during lambing season because of them. He is an ace dog killer.

Damn a coyote. I see them, I dose them.

Oh, I'm aware of the sins of the coyotes. I find it hard to blame them for just doing what coyotes do.

The one I shot was suspected of eating the beloved kitties off the doorstep of my dear deaf and handicapped cousin.........and EVEN THEN I still felt bad after shooting it.

I don't know.........it just looked too much like my dog and I had trouble seeing it as the enemy.

Go figure.

 

[Frostbite]

Trying to see your point from your shoes. are you a retired academic, professor, teacher?
YOUVE reached a point where hunting is not important, ok , accepted, but do you still kill flies, spray for ticks, smash spiders, scratch chiggers, swat mosquitos? just curious because if you do you still hunt like it or not. are you a vegetarian and allow someone else more debased and gross than you to do your killing.
Do you kind of find god in nature?
Do you even believe in God?
Oh and by the WAY I wouldnt get to wrapped in HEMMINGWAY, he committed suicide , not withstanding he lived life to a full schedule ,including war and hunting Africa. Finally settling in Idaho, good choice.
So what kind of man are you leather shoes or plastic . electric car or Gasoline ,combustible.
Cappuccino with whipped cream or black coffee?
do you ride a bike often?
Did you attend the no kings protest as a participant.
would you rather old joe be president for another 4 yrs.

Too many leading questions.

I'm just an ordinary guy with ordinary shoes.

 

[375Fox]

It's all a bit broader than that. If an older man owns land and reserves some of it unplowed, he is providing habitat for quail and other birds. If he puts it in CRP, the same. There are myriad ways to contribute to the success of wildlife survival. If he votes right, if he teaches right values to children and grandchildren. If he permits hunting access to his land. It could go on and on.

All those would be reasonable questions of someone, however @cwpayton posts appears nothing but an unhinged personal attack that has no business on this thread. Those type of idiotic comments can stay on politics thread.

 

[BryceM]

Someone gave me a real moment of pause the other day. We were discussing the outrageous conduct of the owner of a local shooting range. He gets on almost everyone's nerves, and if it can be believed, when I once got the DSC young professionals group to agree to paint and fix up his buildings free of charge as a service designed to keep shooting ranges extant... HE TURNED US DOWN FLAT, stating that he was going to sell the place so it didn't matter! That was years ago, and he has long since resigned himself to the notion he may never sell it.

BUT...right at the height of our chatter, the owner of an ammunition shop who was front and center in the discussion, came up with a brilliant observation. The owner of the shooting range had been raised from childhood at the shooting range, even playing with baby toys behind the counter, and had therefore BEEN EXPOSED TO LEAD POISONING HIS ENTIRE LIFE. The classic symptoms include, outbursts and beligerent reactions, etc. etc. all of which we had unknowingly observed. Conclusion: cut the guy some slack--walk a mile in his moccasins.

I wish the anti-hunters would walk a mile in the local africans' tire tread flip-flops. The locals don't care a whole lot that you took a great picture of wildlife--they have consistently shown they care that you, a hunter, were generous with the meat you shot, and thereby fed their families!
I am proud that hunters often undertake water purification projects, road improvements, (well, not so much road improvement that the bush gets over run...) well drilling, and funding school construction through our revenues. In the opinion of the locals, who really cares the most about the plight of the everyday African--camera toting tourists, or gun toting hunters?
Conclusion: walk a mile in their moccasins. Their vote may keep hunting protected and economically viable. A satisfied local population is the bedrock of hunting access. The money talks, too--and not just in the tourist friendly areas, but in the hard bitten, tsetse fly scourged Jesse which no tourist wants any part of.

Maybe the hardest place for me personally, is to walk a mile in the moccasins of those with near parallel interests in wilderness....perhaps a Sierra Club member who is a bit contemptuous of big game hunting, etc. To understand their concerns for wildlife, and find common ground to help them see that we are BOTH interested in some of the same things, without myself being contemptuous of their viewpoint is my challenge to overcome. Some day, if populations continue to grow and habitats continue to shrink, we won't have the luxury of dividing ourselves on matters of conservation.

Maybe we'll find that we wear a bit closer shoe size than we thought?

Well, cool story, but you are perhaps jumping to the assumption that he is a victim of lead poisoning. It's an interesting hypothesis and perhaps, it's even true. A proper medical workup would reveal the truth. It's probably much more likely that he's just a strange dude.

I agree that empathizing with others and finding common ground is important. Jumping to conclusions with insufficient evidence doesn't help though.

 

[Newboomer]

Oh, I'm aware of the sins of the coyotes. I find it hard to blame them for just doing what coyotes do.

The one I shot was suspected of eating the beloved kitties off the doorstep of my dear deaf and handicapped cousin.........and EVEN THEN I still felt bad after shooting it.

I don't know.........it just looked too much like my dog and I had trouble seeing it as the enemy.

Go figure.

Boo-hoo-hoo.

 

[steve white]

All those would be reasonable questions of someone, however @cwpayton posts appears nothing but an unhinged personal attack that has no business on this thread. Those type of idiotic comments can stay on politics thread.

That's a bit over the top. I can empathize with those that are sick and tired of hunters being trounced on by anti-hunters who think they are speaking from high moral ground when they actually don't occupy the high ground. We've been attacked and mischaracterized untold times. I can relate. My post however is counterintuitively taking a cooperative step with those that sometimes hate us, for the better good. It' is not easy. Go light. Fact is, I often agree with CFPayton. I am merely saying I am willing to listen and plan in cooperation with a larger tent. Actually unlike my redneck self...lol

 

[cwpayton]

What’s your problem with his post? It says he’s 79 years old. My grandpa walked into the woods every year with a rifle but I can never remember him pulling the trigger. Some people want to be around hunting but lose the interest to kill. It happens. Your post is really out of place.

I plainly said I accepted his not hunting, read my post again. MY beef is this , hunting is not a politically thing or shouldnt be but has been made so ,and this is a political thread. I would most likely say the same to Frostbite in personal conversation but thats how posting and texting is ,no inflection ,no emotion, no accent ,or voice expression.. is what it is.

 

[375Fox]

Trying to see your point from your shoes. are you a retired academic, professor, teacher?
YOUVE reached a point where hunting is not important, ok , accepted, but do you still kill flies, spray for ticks, smash spiders, scratch chiggers, swat mosquitos? just curious because if you do you still hunt like it or not. are you a vegetarian and allow someone else more debased and gross than you to do your killing.
Do you kind of find god in nature?
Do you even believe in God?
Oh and by the WAY I wouldnt get to wrapped in HEMMINGWAY, he committed suicide , not withstanding he lived life to a full schedule ,including war and hunting Africa. Finally settling in Idaho, good choice.
So what kind of man are you leather shoes or plastic . electric car or Gasoline ,combustible.
Cappuccino with whipped cream or black coffee?
do you ride a bike often?
Did you attend the no kings protest as a participant.
would you rather old joe be president for another 4 yrs.

That's a bit over the top. I can empathize with those that are sick and tired of hunters being trounced on by anti-hunters who think they are speaking from high moral ground when they actually don't occupy the high ground. We've been attacked and mischaracterized untold times. I can relate. My post however is counterintuitively taking a cooperative step with those that sometimes hate us, for the better good. It' is not easy. Go light. Fact is, I often agree with CFPayton. I am merely saying I am willing to listen and plan in cooperation with a larger tent. Actually unlike my redneck self...lol

@steve white I think you missed the post I’m referencing. It’s quoted for you here. Asking someone if they are a vegetarian, actually believe in God, or prefer whipped cream in their coffee is what I’d call over the top and has no business in this thread. I don’t find anything that offensive or dangerous about a 79 year old that isn’t as eager to kill anymore as a younger man might be.