Viability of the Big Horn Armory Model 89 in .500 S&W (22" Barrel) for Cape Buffalo?

[Green Chile]

That sure looks a lot like a 99.

I thought the same thing. I didn't realize Bradshaw was working on a lever gun but he is usually whittling away on something. He is a very intelligent craftsman.

 

[Andrew NOLA]

I really, really, really need to stay far away from this forum. Ordering a model 89

 

[Rumrunner]

Good friend took his second buffalo with a handgun. .500 S&W this past August.

 

[DaBill]

If you read the FB thread he will have two prototypes at DSC next year.

 

[Tradmark]

Yup. Love my 99

 

[Andrew NOLA]

ballistics from Big Horn Armory - Both on 18 and 22 inch barrels

Very little difference, likely due to the fast powders used in this

 

[deewayne2003]

Good friend took his second buffalo with a handgun. .500 S&W this past August.
View attachment 719684

Is your friend wearing a second pistol under his side???

 

[AZDAVE]

Having read all the posts and looked at the old american bison rounds in the 45 and 50cal range along with 50 Alaskan etc. I had a 50 alaskan bulit on a ruger #1 and was able to get 2150 with the 535 woodleigh bullet loaded in the 62K psi range with a 26 in barrel. So I am very skeptical of a 500S&W case getting 2150 with a 500gr.

Can you hunt with the 50S&W (I wouldn't) yes but the shooter MUST be able to walk away from anything less than a full broadside shot at under 50 yards. THE first shot is the most important. If that shot is blown you have now put the whole crew in a significantly more dangerous situation. @Red Leg has clearly laid this out. The other thing is the animal itself some animals get hit and just run a short distance and another hit exactly the same refuses to die and things get sporty.

 

[Andrew NOLA]

If you look at the ballistics information that I attached from the manufacturer of the rifle in the prior post, they’re getting about 2000 ft./s with a 400 grain bullet

I’ve been following this post and I had started to get kind of excited about getting one of these rifles until I got the ballistics information. This one appears to be marginal.

45-90, 475 Turnbull, 50–110 would seem to be more viable choices in a lever action

I think it’s important to have enough respect for the animal that you’re hunting to use enough gun

For what it’s worth

 

[Tradmark]

ive taken buff head on. Be more picky with bullet choice but the gun is very capable.

 

[Odinsraven]

My issue is the collateral damage. If one of us wants to go out alone and attempt to kill a buffalo with a pistol or a stick fine. But it won't go down that way. When we attempt it, a PH and at least a tracker will be added to the risk. Screw up that first shot through either placement or not enough gun or whatever, and they are most likely to pay the price for the client on his first buffalo hunt with a marginal weapon.

Wise words

 

[Velo Dog]

Fellow Hunters and Rifle Enthusiasts,

If I could afford to hunt heavy dangerous game every day for a thousand years, I might (might) get bored with it, but never so much as to dabble in that wonderful activity with any handgun cartridge, sharp sticks, a frog gig, high velocity frozen herring, an ice pick, a camp hatchet, air rifle or any other bright ideas I might dream up.

Evidently with today’s super tough, premium bonded, etc. 300 grain bullets, the .375 H&H is by reputation, a sensible minimum for African buffalo hunting.
I see no reason to ignore that and wander off the well charted trail to success and grope about in darkness, hoping to find a secret passage to success.

And in my limited (very limited) experience, it is my opinion that rifles in calibers such as .404 Jeffery, 450/400 NE, a couple of the well established .416’s and so forth are so much the better for shooting of said buffaloes.
Also, I can’t think of any reason why anyone who can shoot them straight under stressful circumstances should not use the various .458 diameter, .470 NE and similar.
Plus, there are several excellent ones in the .500 nitro-smokeless rifle cartridge family, both rimless for repeaters and flanged for doubles and single shots that reportedly are real smashers for those hunters who can handle the recoil.
All the above were originally designed for heavy dangerous African animals.

Metaphorically speaking, in the opening 2 or 3 seconds of the first round, it is much lreferred to land a single crashing right hook to his jaw than a hundred fast jabs against wherever they may land throughout the remainder of the bout.

Cheers,
Velo Dog.

 

[Bigbore585]

I have been giving the 500 S&W in a Big Horn lever some thought recently. The 500 in a S&W revolver has killed Cape Buffalo. There was an article about the hunt in a magazine YEARS ago, probably right when the 500 S&W released. Coles Notes, it killed the buffalo. I want to say the range was like 15 yards.

Now thinking about if a 500 S&W will kill a buffalo in a lever gun, I’m sure it will. Would it be my first choice, no. I have never hunted in Africa so my opinion really means nothing for dangerous game hunting. But I have hunted lots, and i do know guns and ballistics.

You would likely be just fine with good shot placement, and the ability for fast follow up shots with practice. Just my two cents.

*After writing this post I went and read a few posts about people planning on hunting Cape buffalo with either a 460 S&W or 454 Cas, in a revolver let alone a rifle. Seems like certain people are comfortable with shooting them at revolver distances and are doing just fine… Im sure the added velocity in a lever gun will definitely help in killing a Cape Buffalo. So maybe if you keep your shot close to pistol range you would just fine. Just a guess lol

 

[akrifleman]

I managed with a handgun quite a few times. I don't particularly recommend hard cast over monolithic. Hard cast doesn't always survive bones. Cutting Edge and Lehigh bullets just don't fail.

People have used spears successfully, which means risk/reward opinions will vary greatly. Being said, a great many people have proven penetration (for big bore handgun cartridges) is less a problem than the age old placement problem.

 

[Bigbore585]

I managed with a handgun quite a few times. I don't particularly recommend hard cast over monolithic. Hard cast doesn't always survive bones. Cutting Edge and Lehigh bullets just don't fail.

People have used spears successfully, which means risk/reward opinions will vary greatly. Being said, a great many people have proven penetration (for big bore handgun cartridges) is less a problem than the age old placement problem.

Well there ya go. Im not saying it can’t be done. I just have no experience in it. If a magnum pistol can kill a cape buffalo, then a similar or more powerful cartridge in a slightly longer barrel will have even more power to kill. I would love to hunt buffalo with a lever action let alone a pistol. I wouldn’t argue against a pistol cartridge not having good penetration. It’s clearly been proven.

 

[akrifleman]

Well there ya go. Im not saying it can’t be done. I just have no experience in it. If a magnum pistol can kill a cape buffalo, then a similar or more powerful cartridge in a slightly longer barrel will have even more power to kill. I would love to hunt buffalo with a lever action let alone a pistol. I wouldn’t argue against a pistol cartridge not having good penetration. It’s clearly been proven.

People have been killed by Cape Buff. Full Stop. Big Bore Handguns with proven heavy monos will penetrate and from some imperfect angles. Never use expanding bullets for these cartridges, they are NOT Rigby or Nitro express cartridges. A Big Horn Arrmory is a Big Bore Handgun with more initial velocity, do not shit yourself about this being true.

Not all parts of Africa or PHs are equal. You need to discuss situations and capabilities with your PH. Never consider a handgun cartridge a "stopper". Always be responsible and have adequate support.

Also, Michael458 knows his stuff. Handgun terminal ballistics are not comperable to rifle.

 

[Bigbore585]

People have been killed by Cape Buff. Full Stop. Big Bore Handguns with proven heavy monos will penetrate and from some imperfect angles.

Not all parts of Africa or PHs are equal. You need to discuss situations and capabilities with your PH. Never consider a handgun cartridge a "stopper". Always be responsible and have adequate support.

I have no disagreement there. I was just talking about the original question on how a 500 S&W in a 22” lever gun would fair. Like I said I think it would be fine considering people have killed cape buffalo with pistols. I kinda assuming you have shot them with a revolver. What have you shot them with? Gun? And cartridge? It would help with the OP’s question if a 500S&W in a lever gun viable for cape buffalo. I figured the 500 would work, and after reading posts about hunting with a pistol it would work. Even though there are many above posts recommending not to.

 

[akrifleman]

I have no disagreement there. I was just talking about the original question on how a 500 S&W in a 22” lever gun would fair. Like I said I think it would be fine considering people have killed cape buffalo with pistols. I kinda assuming you have shot them with a revolver. What have you shot them with? Gun? And cartridge? It would help with the OP’s question if a 500S&W in a lever gun viable for cape buffalo. I figured the 500 would work, and after reading posts about hunting with a pistol it would work. Even though there are many above posts recommending not to.

Personally, 475 Linebaugh. 5.5" iron sight Blackhawk conversion, by the cartridge namesake. I have posted photos here, including a charge the Linebaugh handled. 460/500 S&W and Wesson cartridges have been personally known to be effective. I ironically have yet to take a rifle, but my family has.

Handguns (and most all Levers) are the same in many ways. Energy is mass times velocity. With Handgun and Lever we have no velocity of note. So, we MUST carry mass and inherent direction stability.

It is difficult for someone to see a Buff walk away from a rifle .416+ and imagine a handgun can do the job. Experience tends to make one conservative and hedge all bets, and I do respect those observations. So many people have unrealistic expectations. But, I've seen or been made aware of more 460 Woundabee failures than any handgunner. You just cannot under any circumstances believe a 45/70 or 500 S&W is a 458 Win.

Sometimes Buff won't die from massive hammers. It will not change that a proper big bore handgun bullet will fully penetrate. Proven over and over and over...

 

[Tradmark]

400 gr at 2000fps is 400gr at 2000fps.

 

[matt85]

Fellow Hunters and Rifle Enthusiasts,

If I could afford to hunt heavy dangerous game every day for a thousand years, I might (might) get bored with it, but never so much as to dabble in that wonderful activity with any handgun cartridge, sharp sticks, a frog gig, high velocity frozen herring, an ice pick, a camp hatchet, air rifle or any other bright ideas I might dream up.

Evidently with today’s super tough, premium bonded, etc. 300 grain bullets, the .375 H&H is by reputation, a sensible minimum for African buffalo hunting.
I see no reason to ignore that and wander off the well charted trail to success and grope about in darkness, hoping to find a secret passage to success.

And in my limited (very limited) experience, it is my opinion that rifles in calibers such as .404 Jeffery, 450/400 NE, a couple of the well established .416’s and so forth are so much the better for shooting of said buffaloes.
Also, I can’t think of any reason why anyone who can shoot them straight under stressful circumstances should not use the various .458 diameter, .470 NE and similar.
Plus, there are several excellent ones in the .500 nitro-smokeless rifle cartridge family, both rimless for repeaters and flanged for doubles and single shots that reportedly are real smashers for those hunters who can handle the recoil.
All the above were originally designed for heavy dangerous African animals.

Metaphorically speaking, in the opening 2 or 3 seconds of the first round, it is much lreferred to land a single crashing right hook to his jaw than a hundred fast jabs against wherever they may land throughout the remainder of the bout.

Cheers,
Velo Dog.

Well said!

I have never understood the desire to use weaker and weaker tools for the task of taking dangerous game.

Why? Why do we need to use inferior tools for the job? Is a hunter who takes dangerous game with an inferior tool somehow superior to the hunter who uses tools made specifically for the job? Is there some special pleasure in "making due", when the proper tools are readily available, affordable, and easy to use?

On that same note, if a hunter uses an inferior tool for the job and someone is killed or seriously wounded durring the hunt... Is the hunter responsible?