Times Are Changing, Do We Change With Them

[PHOENIX PHIL]

I do agree dsc is more low key but still not for your avg hunter in my mind. I had a blast at the show and meet some great people but still enough of the good old boy network that will stop there numbers from growing.

I dont have a problem with any of them myself that would stop me from supporting them. But we need to get more of a voice and the old groups are not getting that done. It is time people be honest with themselves and not just say what they think there buddies want to hear. Talking to ourselves does not help us we need to get the avg hunter to take a bigger role for us all to win the battle.
Some peoples little feeling may get hurt but if we dont pull it together now and start thinking about all hunters we are going to be in a bad way. Sometimes having more people on your side is better the a few with more money. Having both would be great but that is hard to over come with all he jealous between us and how spread out we all are on what hunting is.

So do you have any specific ideas/actions you'd suggest?

By the way your avatar is one of those hairless cats like Dr. Evil's......it's creepy

 

[billc]

I know I got the ugly cat for some reason. LOL

I would just like to see some actions that would go after the avg. hunter which is were dsc would be better I guess. Or it would need to be a new group started. One that covers all hunters in all countries.

I would like to see one of the groups do what I see a few of the anti do with billboards. Showing facts and why hunting works to keep wildlife around. Not the bs like the anti groups put out but real numbers short and sweet showing why there is more game around and how some animals have been brought back by hunters.

Maybe sci could open the show to all people for a day so maybe guys could see what it is about.

I would just like to see the groups react when we get blindside by the antis faster then they do.

 

[Royal27]

So do you have any specific ideas/actions you'd suggest?

By the way your avatar is one of those hairless cats like Dr. Evil's......it's creepy

Bill does look like he lost weight.

 

[enysse]

Unfortunately everyone still associates the word safari = "big money, I can't afford it, you must be rich". I still get that from every person I meet who hasn't done the research. There is gentlemen on here that doesn't post much that sold his deer land here in Wisconsin and now can afford to go on a wonderful safari every year. It's AMAZING how much people spend on hunting in the USA but can't afford to save up for a safari. I know the hunt I'm going on this year will equal 10 years of hunting in Wisconsin for a lot less money.

 

[billc]

enysse that is what I mean about all hunters does not need to be about african safrais. It needs to be about all hunting and hunters rights. What hunters do for elephants and rhino down to elk and pheasants. One group fighting for everything to picking what is special to any one person.

 

[enysse]

I should have explained it better, everyone is associated DSC and SCI with big money, "trophy hunting". Unless we can change that they represent every hunter, those groups are wasting a lot of time.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

I should have explained it better, everyone is associated DSC and SCI with big money, "trophy hunting". Unless we can change that they represent every hunter, those groups are wasting a lot of time.

Is that image one that the average back 40 deer and duck hunter is subjected to? Or is it conjured up in their own mind?

SCI definitely hurts themselves on this front with the price of admission to the show. That said, along with the other costs incurred traveling to Vegas, while not insignificant it's not really that much more in comparison to hotels, food and airline tix. DSC on the other hand is in my mind an absolute bargain.

Are there people at both shows who are quite well off? Well of course there is, the fact of the matter with no intention to sound arrogant, but a full bag 21 day safari in Tanzania isn't something most people even those that are fairly affluent can afford. Should the Tanzanians and their well off clients be discouraged from being at the shows?

The fact of the matter for me is that having been in the HartzView booth now for I think it's 8 conventions now between DSC and SCI, most of the time I have no idea when an attendee stops at the booth what their financial status is. Furthermore for the repeat clients who I know are doing quite well, I can assure you that unless I was told more details about them, the majority of those I'd have no idea. They're just ordinary people who love to hunt just like the rest of us, who in addition have been blessed financially more than myself. I enjoy being around them just as much as I do the more average clients who have to save up over a few years to go to Africa just like myself.

Will the courting of big donors continue at the black tie dinners? Yes and I'm not going to blame them for this. Will I be in attendance? Jeesh, I sure hope not. Nor am I going to let the fact that I don't fit in at such functions be something that bothers me.

 

[enysse]

It's hard to change perceptions, I'm not saying you are wrong Phil at all. The general public never "fully" educates themselves on the subject, they get judgemental in heartbeat though..........

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

It's hard to change perceptions, I'm not saying you are wrong Phil at all. The general public never "fully" educates themselves on the subject, they get judgemental in heartbeat though..........

No doubt.

 

[billc]

I dont think anyone is saying those who can afford to do tanz should not be able to go any different then any other country. But we all know the main group at sci and even some on this very site think if you dont hunt zim,tanz or moz your not hunting africa or even hunting for that matter . It is not as bad on this site as some places but we all know what must think about hunting in SA at sci.

Again the problem is not about what one can afford and I myself could care less but unless they smarten up the numbers of members sci or dsc has will never be enough to fight the good fight.

We are so divide as a group with guys who think if you do a guided hunt your not a hunter. If you dont hunt public land your not.If you hunt a place with fence your not and all that does is keep us in small groups getting no where as they take more and more from us.

Hell we cant even normally agree that no matter what if your hunting with a bow,rifle or muzzy your a hunter. Unless the word gets out that all hunting is under attack we have little chance to win the battle. We need everyone from the elephant hunters to the rabbit hunters to be one and realize an attack on any hunting is not good.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

I dont think anyone is saying those who can afford to do tanz should not be able to go any different then any other country. But we all know the main group at sci and even some on this very site think if you dont hunt zim,tanz or moz your not hunting africa or even hunting for that matter . It is not as bad on this site as some places but we all know what must think about hunting in SA at sci.

Bill,

Don't confuse the other forum and their overall though not unanimous opinion of RSA hunting as being synonymous with DSC's or SCI's or of the people who attend the shows. I was at one of the dinners held by the other forum a few years back in Dallas. We now have significantly more at the AH function. HartzView has booked its share of clients at both shows as do many other RSA outfitters.

I also would not for one moment think that the other forum or even this one represents the center of the African hunting universe even if some over there might.

 

[Royal27]

Am I being divisive because I don't agree that we should all agree?

Difference of opinion and different ways of doing things is GOOD, not bad. It is STRENGTH, not weakness.

BUT, we still need to band together and work together. Not because of the differences, but because of what we have in common, which is hunting. And yes, that even includes SA <gasp>! Heck, I didn't even realize that SCI had banned hunting there???? I'm going to have to call them and complain!

What if, hypothetically speaking, there was a place with I don't know, say 50 different areas that all had different beliefs and ways of doing things (some rifle hunters, some bow hunters, and even some of those dirty black powder guys) and they all governed themselves because of it. They might even care more about what they like best. With me so far? Then, maybe there could be this bigger overarching entity that helped to bring them together. And by this common entity pulling all of these different little guys together something could be done for the greater good, while still protecting the individuals. Just a concept really... Don't think this has ever been tried....

Now I'm sure that at times those little 50 areas might even want to break up and at other times that over arching entity might get to big for its britches, but it just might be a way where folks could be different , but still be part of the same cause, successfully.

Call me crazy, but even though we are all different cats here with different colors, shapes, looks, and even some with bowties, we are still cats!

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

But I don't like cats, especially those with no tongue control!

That's not going to make sense when this cat avatar thing goes away.

 

[Royal27]

That's not going to make sense when this cat avatar thing goes away.

I thought of that, but it made me laugh today.

 

[AB2506]

Part of the problem with SCI and DSC is the word safari.

While Safari is a Swahili word meaning a journey or expedition, in the early 20th century, wealthy individuals like the Roosevelts went on lengthy "safaris". The term was associated with wealth and long trips in British East Africa.

In the last few decades even the bunny huggers have co-opted the word and they like their photo safaris.

Now the primary definition of the word safari in the Merriam-Webster dictionary is: a journey to observe or hunt animals especially in East Africa.

So maybe instead of changing names, we do a better job of educating of explaining that a safari can be your journey to your deer camp, your elk trip, your rabbit swamp, grouse covert etc. A safari need not be a 21 day trip to Tanzania. A safari is your own personal journey, wherever that may take you.

Would this reduce the perception of exclusivity of SCI or DSC?

 

[enysse]

I frankly don't like the way the predators are managed here in the United States. I wish hunters would gather together just to fight that anti's on the mismanagement of the wolf populations. The whole landscape has changed in the last 25 years. We can't cut trees without doing a million studies, everything has to roadless and we are suppose to allow wolves dominate the landscape over wildlife???? And in a lot of states they are not allowing dogs or baiting for bears, again they are closing down methods of hunting without too much opposition.............

 

[billc]

I think the problem is more then the word safari really. They have focused so much on africa though many hunters from the states do not even realize sci or dsc do things for them also.

You see any of the sci or dsc sponsored shows it is almost always africa or some other country anymore and ever hosy of the show comes across as some elite person but not as hunters anymore. Some of them almost look like they just started hunting sometimes.

I think the best answer would be if the nra started pushing hunting again

 

[enysse]

I honestly can't relate to hardly any of the people you see on the Outdoor channel or Sportsman channel. I'm my own person, I don't get jealous over their hunts. I just like seeing the scenery and the animals. Most of the people I have met locally from SCI are really nice people, very big into hunting. I don't DSC or SCI advertise to the avg joe hunter.......it may be a mistake long term. I never go the nation shows, because I don't have time or a lot of money. As it I'm pay $1000+ to apply for points in the USA to go hunting some day.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

I think the best answer would be if the nra started pushing hunting again

Hey, I thought I said that. I'm certainly not the first however.

If you go to https://home.nra.org/
You'll see Larry Potterfield on the front page. He has a vested interest not only in shooting but also hunting. Back when Tony Makris had his show Under Wild Skies on, he had Wayne La Pierre in an episode or two. The two of them are from what I understand pretty tight.

Furthermore go here: http://hservices.nra.org/
The NRA apparently has seen an opportunity for bringing in more funds via hunting.

Right or wrong, there's nothing like the dollar to motivate people into action.

 

[Velo Dog]

Tape measures, record books and crude language, are the cancerous trilogy of our public relations disaster.