The latest on USFWS Elephant Import Permits from Zimbabwe

johnnyblues

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Q. Has anyone ever tried to hire an attorney to sue to have them issue the permit from an exportable place?


Seems they aren’t doing their jobs (no surprise). A judge might issue order directing them to do so in a specific timeline.

Just a thought.
I would have to imagine the cost to hire an attorney would be astronomical as the government would drag it on for years.
 

tigris115

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Honestly, I do think hunters and hunting groups , especially SCI and DSC, need to haul all the ass to get the import process in working order as all they're doing rn is just calling vegans bad names and sharing posts on Facebook.
 

enysse

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I don’t think they will ever open imports again because there is not a major majority of the voting population pushing for a change. “It’s just us trophy hunters” that the public likes to vilify in the news. You know the ones that care about wildlife conservation.
 

tigris115

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That's because were not making our case hard enough. We need to go on a much more massive PR war as I feel DDC and SCI are lagging behind heavily. You can easily sway the public's mind if you put.the proper energy to it.
 

rookhawk

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SCI will not flex on its approach, and it’s approach is unwinnable as an approach for the general public.

Over 80% of the masses support hunting turkey and deer for food. Elk, over 60%.

Add the word “trophy” to it and the support plummets to around 20%. The general public doesn’t know what that word means, but they don’t like it. They will never like it. The SCI awards will never be supported by the public.

That’s why importing is so hard. We are a PR nightmare.
 

tigris115

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Why does it plummet though? Find that out and then combat the issue
SCI will not flex on its approach, and it’s approach is unwinnable as an approach for the general public.

Over 80% of the masses support hunting turkey and deer for food. Elk, over 60%.

Add the word “trophy” to it and the support plummets to around 20%. The general public doesn’t know what that word means, but they don’t like it. They will never like it. The SCI awards will never be supported by the public.

That’s why importing is so hard. We are a PR nightmare.
 

rookhawk

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Morality is diminished as utility diminishes.
 

rinehart0050

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Sad state of affairs, but not unexpected.

This just helps to solidify my plans to hunt a non-exportable elephant on my next safari.

Taxidermists are very good at making replicas these days. My wife and I stopped by Kanati taxidermy studios in PA a couple months ago. They will make the replicas to exactly match what you hunted- tusks to length and shape, ears, etc.

Heres an example of a work in progress at their studio:
20190905_094159.jpg
 

rookhawk

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Then showcase the utility of trophy hunting by using as many direct, unvague examples as humanely possible such as Bubye.


While we're going on a tangent, I think it's important points you bring up and its exactly why we cannot import easily, and its why we have a PR nightmare.

My approach that will never happen, that would work:

-The term "trophy" must be banned. The word sucks and the public hates it. "Selective Hunting" or "Specimen Hunting" should be the term. "Selective Hunting" seeks to hunt more, with less harvest, pursuing challenging game that is representative of the species, is usually beyond optimal breeding age, and has no detrimental impact on the species. The fact that I have to spend 20 minutes explaining my "deer hunting" versus other people's "Deer hunting" to navigate around the word "trophy" explains what a turd the term has become with the public. When I explain that I "selectively hunt" far less deer than average, and thus my utility to the species through revenue is greater, and the selective management of deer makes for more and better deer, the on-the-fence-anti's love me. But I had to weave and dodge around the term "trophy hunting" because the word is vile in the general perception and it is a term you cannot overcome. The public thinks trophy hunters chop off the head, collect as many macabre totems as possible, and throw all the meat away. <- That's what they think because of that word's common interpretation.

-All hunting awards of SCI are all null and void. The record book moving forward is about "the specimen animal hunted", "the biological data collected", and "the long term reporting on the quality of habitat in different areas". Moving forward, all names are struck from the record books and replaced with a unique member ID# so the hunter can track their submissions. All photos with hunters included shall be deleted or replaced with solely the animal.

In so doing above, it would make a winnable PR game with the general public. The optics of paying tens of thousands of dollars to "buy" awards for "Trophies" killed is a horrible ideological position for us to be in as hunters and is an unwinnable game with the general public.
 

tigris115

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Dude, you should totally submit that concept to groups like DSC, HSC, and SCI.
While we're going on a tangent, I think it's important points you bring up and its exactly why we cannot import easily, and its why we have a PR nightmare.

My approach that will never happen, that would work:

-The term "trophy" must be banned. The word sucks and the public hates it. "Selective Hunting" or "Specimen Hunting" should be the term. "Selective Hunting" seeks to hunt more, with less harvest, pursuing challenging game that is representative of the species, is usually beyond optimal breeding age, and has no detrimental impact on the species. The fact that I have to spend 20 minutes explaining my "deer hunting" versus other people's "Deer hunting" to navigate around the word "trophy" explains what a turd the term has become with the public. When I explain that I "selectively hunt" far less deer than average, and thus my utility to the species through revenue is greater, and the selective management of deer makes for more and better deer, the on-the-fence-anti's love me. But I had to weave and dodge around the term "trophy hunting" because the word is vile in the general perception and it is a term you cannot overcome. The public thinks trophy hunters chop off the head, collect as many macabre totems as possible, and throw all the meat away. <- That's what they think because of that word's common interpretation.

-All hunting awards of SCI are all null and void. The record book moving forward is about "the specimen animal hunted", "the biological data collected", and "the long term reporting on the quality of habitat in different areas". Moving forward, all names are struck from the record books and replaced with a unique member ID# so the hunter can track their submissions. All photos with hunters included shall be deleted or replaced with solely the animal.

In so doing above, it would make a winnable PR game with the general public. The optics of paying tens of thousands of dollars to "buy" awards for "Trophies" killed is a horrible ideological position for us to be in as hunters and is an unwinnable game with the general public.
 
D

Deleted member 43267

Scenario 7: SCI and other groups stop trying to win importation via legal technicalities, and approach USFWS and ask them what data would be needed to evaluate elephant populations in the countries in question such that imports could be evaluated objectively. All the lawyers are fired, and for a fraction of the cost hunters partner with scientists and even USFWS itself to carry out the studies needed. If data show that hunting is an effective conservation tool supporting a stable population then all international treaties and Federal laws are upheld and imports can resume. If data show declining populations, then everyone knows what must be done to get everything back on track. Or you could just go to Botswana and hunt there. PM me if you want to arrange a hunt there. I have a Botswana licensed PH friend who has guided clients to 60 elephants and taken about 60 on his own who is getting back into it. He will make all the outfitter/in-country arrangements for you. We did a mock unarmed elephant hunt a couple weeks ago and saw several 75 pound bulls. In a place that is so remote it does not show up in a google search.

Thanks,

Jeff
 

tigris115

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Scenario 7: SCI and other groups stop trying to win importation via legal technicalities, and approach USFWS and ask them what data would be needed to evaluate elephant populations in the countries in question such that imports could be evaluated objectively. All the lawyers are fired, and for a fraction of the cost hunters partner with scientists and even USFWS itself to carry out the studies needed. If data show that hunting is an effective conservation tool supporting a stable population then all international treaties and Federal laws are upheld and imports can resume. If data show declining populations, then everyone knows what must be done to get everything back on track. Or you could just go to Botswana and hunt there. PM me if you want to arrange a hunt there. I have a Botswana licensed PH friend who has guided clients to 60 elephants and taken about 60 on his own who is getting back into it. He will make all the outfitter/in-country arrangements for you. We did a mock unarmed elephant hunt a couple weeks ago and saw several 75 pound bulls. In a place that is so remote it does not show up in a google search.

Thanks,

Jeff
I like this plan. However, I feel like SCI is missing the point like a drunken gorilla at a dart contest. Like I feel like they've lost their way, which would make this scenario a very hard one unless it was laid out in the proper way.
 
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