Swift A Frame 180g, 308w with RL15???

Novice Huntress

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Hi All, how you doing?

Not wanting to hijack Shootist's thread but I have a similar though more simple question.

Does anyone have access to the latest Swift reloading book and does it still contain loading data using RL15 for 180g A Frame in a 308w, crucially does it still go up to a max of 45g for that bullet cartridge combination.

I have a one book calibre that is quite old now, so just wanted to do a cross check.

Look forward to your replies.

ATVB
 

PHOENIX PHIL

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My Swift manual is a bit aged too, but it shows 45gr of RL15 as max. It also shows 41.9gr. To be safe, I'd start at 42gr and work up.

I'm showing also 45gr max for a number of other bullets with RL15.
 

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Hi Phil,

Thank you for your prompt reply, no worries with the 42g start load, the same info I have shows 41.9g start. I just wanted to cross check that Swift hasn't made a major change at the max load.

Best Regards
 

sgt_zim

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I have Swift #2, shows 41.9 gr RL15 on the bottom and 45.0 gr at the top.
 

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PM sent with picture.
 

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Hi N. Huntress.

I suggest you change your name to Wise Huntress. :) Cross checking reload data is an excellent practice.

I generally like to look up the powder manufacture' s online data as well, if available.

Although not for a Swift A-Frame, Alliant also shows the 308W max charge of RL15 for a 180 grain (Speer), at 45 grains. Velocity is less however.
https://www.alliantpowder.com/products/powder/reloder15.aspx

I would be interested in hearing how the RL15 load works out.
 

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sgt_zim

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a good fall back plan in case the RL15 doesn't get you what you want.

I use varget for
Hornady ELD-X 178
Berger VLDH 175
Speer Grand Slam 180 (3 different rifles)
Speer Gold Dot 168

The slowest of the lot is the grand slam, at about 2560 or so. Berger and Hornady at about 2615, and Gold Dot about 2730; I have sub-MOA loads for all of those. Not saying any of those is a good substitute for an A Frame (though I'd put Grand Slam fairly close, even considering it isn't a premium bullet), but Varget just seems to work with 308W.

YMMV.

Definitely give the RL 15 a go first, but Varget would probably be a good fall-back if you can't get what you want from RL15.
 

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Hi Sgt-Zim,

Thank you for the update I will continue with RL15 unfortunately Varget is no longer available in the UK , though there are a good range of alternatives.

I was interested in your view on the Grand Slam as I think the Speer range doesn't seem to get a decent press these days???????

Plus it depends on what your local supplier has.

Best Rgds
 

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I use RL 15 quite a bit for loading several cartridges, including .308 Winchester. It is a very good powder for heavy bullets in the .308 but I have not personally used it for heavier than 165 gr. bullets. I have noticed recommended loads for RL15 have varied quite a lot over the years, on further research it is a powder that seems to exhibit considerable variation from lot to lot. Older lots seemed to burn slower, and more powder was required in the past to reach the specified velocity. Velocity is very closely correlated to pressure. So If you have access to a chronograph I suggest you verify modern, published loads by comparing actual measured velocity. If velocity meets the specification, and load is within published max. charge of powder, it should be a good, safe load.
I'm not Sgt-Zim, but have used the Speer Grand slam for a lot of hunting. I like them. At .308 velocities I think they're consistent performers IN game and have been accurate in my rifles.
 

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True about R15 varying in burn rate. When I was working up loads for my .405 Win., books show it about same as Varget but when I ran them over the clock, it was obviously much slower. Took several grains to get it up to spec. R15 has long been a favorite of match shooters with 180's, usually right up to max. I used 45grs of it with a 175 Match King in one of my M1A's and it shot sub half inch. That's a bit stiff for the M1A op rod but I didn't shoot it a lot.
 

sgt_zim

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Hi Sgt-Zim,

Thank you for the update I will continue with RL15 unfortunately Varget is no longer available in the UK , though there are a good range of alternatives.

I was interested in your view on the Grand Slam as I think the Speer range doesn't seem to get a decent press these days???????

Plus it depends on what your local supplier has.

Best Rgds

I believe ADI's AR-2208 is the same powder as Varget. Pretty sure they can get it down in Oz, not sure about you guys in the UK.

I've never used GS for hunting, but I can attest to their potential for accuracy. And I know more than a few guys whose opinions I trust that at non-magnum impact velocities, Grand Slam works like a champ - which is why I loaded up a bunch of them for my sons and their 308s.

The chat goes something along the lines of "if I can actually recover the bullet, I can still read the 'GS' stamped on the bullet's base, and it's about as close to a perfect mushroom as a mushroom."

GS has a stellar reputation considering they are *just* cup-and-core bullets. I'd use them, but Speer doesn't make them in any caliber/bullet weight I hunt with. If/when I ever buy a hunting .308 or 300 Savage, that's what I'll load up.
 

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Hi Guys,

Really appreciate all your Input and feedback on this regarding RL15 for this cartridge/A frame combination.

A thanks also for your thoughts on the Grand Slams, I think I will also try some of these as an alternate choice.

Best Regards
 

Bullthrower338

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I believe ADI's AR-2208 is the same powder as Varget. Pretty sure they can get it down in Oz, not sure about you guys in the UK.

I've never used GS for hunting, but I can attest to their potential for accuracy. And I know more than a few guys whose opinions I trust that at non-magnum impact velocities, Grand Slam works like a champ - which is why I loaded up a bunch of them for my sons and their 308s.

The chat goes something along the lines of "if I can actually recover the bullet, I can still read the 'GS' stamped on the bullet's base, and it's about as close to a perfect mushroom as a mushroom."

GS has a stellar reputation considering they are *just* cup-and-core bullets. I'd use them, but Speer doesn't make them in any caliber/bullet weight I hunt with. If/when I ever buy a hunting .308 or 300 Savage, that's what I'll load up.
The Grand Slam was my bullet of choice for years. I could always get the GS to shoot a little better out of my 7 RM than I could a partition. Plus they were a little cheaper on a kids wallet. I have shot a lot of animals with mainly the 175 grain 7mm bullet. I always got good performance out of them. Much less weight retention than with an A-Frame but quite sufficient. I still load a 145 GS in the 280 Rem, 7mm-08 and 275 Rigby. For NA game, the GS is plenty of bullet. I would exclude the big bears and Moose from that and go with an A-Frame or similar though.
 

shootist~

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Nobel Huntress,

My (limited) experience with the Grand Slam is similar to Bullthrower's. In my case it was a 160 grain GS that a Sako 7mm08 really liked. V was 2,742 fps which was a max load if I remember correctly.
My perception at the time (1988) was the GS and NP's were "the" two premium bullets available. And the GS was the more accurate at that time as well.
(Today's NP's show near match bullet accuracy, for my 6.5 CM Tikka.)

On a medium sized Mule Deer, (Gila National Forest in SW New Mexico), the 160 GS was a one shot DRT. Probably a pass-through as well, but I don't really recall.
It worked well on White Tail deer also - but just about anything did that with decent shot placement.

Midway-USA, an online supplier over here is a good source for product reviews. (Some caution and grains of salt are well advised, however).
Current 30 cal 180 Grand Slams get very good reviews at Midway-USA, but they might be on the tough side. A good number of the reviews were from people loading for a 300 WM.
 

sgt_zim

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The Grand Slam was my bullet of choice for years. I could always get the GS to shoot a little better out of my 7 RM than I could a partition. Plus they were a little cheaper on a kids wallet. I have shot a lot of animals with mainly the 175 grain 7mm bullet. I always got good performance out of them. Much less weight retention than with an A-Frame but quite sufficient. I still load a 145 GS in the 280 Rem, 7mm-08 and 275 Rigby. For NA game, the GS is plenty of bullet. I would exclude the big bears and Moose from that and go with an A-Frame or similar though.

Funny you should name those calibers. Those are the 3 I'm considering for my daughter. She's shooting a cheapy H&R 7mm-08 until she's safe for a season (she is now officially proficient - she was ringing steel at 400 with my 6.5x55).

She's shooting American White Tail 139s with no recoil complaints, and I chronied 5 of them a couple weeks ago at a consistent 2900-2925. She said my 6.5x55 shooting 143 at 2500 fps has more recoil. o_O

Whatever I get, I'm getting a pair of them so I can reload for them, probably a MRC. Leaning towards 280 Rem for its versatility with all weights of bullet.
 

Bullthrower338

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Funny you should name those calibers. Those are the 3 I'm considering for my daughter. She's shooting a cheapy H&R 7mm-08 until she's safe for a season (she is now officially proficient - she was ringing steel at 400 with my 6.5x55).

She's shooting American White Tail 139s with no recoil complaints, and I chronied 5 of them a couple weeks ago at a consistent 2900-2925. She said my 6.5x55 shooting 143 at 2500 fps has more recoil. o_O

Whatever I get, I'm getting a pair of them so I can reload for them, probably a MRC. Leaning towards 280 Rem for its versatility with all weights of bullet.
Love the 280! My son shot his in RSA and it performed excellent. I’ve been contemplating an MRC in 280AI. I’m very happy with my MRC rifles I currently own.
 

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Hi All, thank you for your comments,

Appreciate your views on the GS, I will continue with RL15 we do also have Viht and Reload Swiss powder.

The closest I got to 280 REM was 7x64 using GECO TM's a straight forward soft point though effective.
 

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