Swedish Mauser 6.5x55 Carl Gustafson action, is it good? What caliber build?

Discussion in 'Gunsmithing' started by Gert Odendaal, May 7, 2019.

  1. WebleyOperator

    WebleyOperator New Member

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    Sorry I have no answers as I’m no Smith/machinist. I take it you’re doing the work yourself (?)
    Personally I would entrust the job to a Smith with a suitable reamer.
    You have my admiration if you’ve the skills for such an undertaking.
    Kind regs,
    Simon.
     

  2. Gert Odendaal

    Gert Odendaal AH Elite

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    Thank you Simon, it is much appreciated..Simon, yes, I have a good friend Johan Greyling who is my mentor in gunsmith work..I always try to get the answer myself ..but I will use the solid pilot reamer since I think the difference is the solid pilot reamer is for normal hunting rifles while the premium one for bench rest /accurate target shooting rifles(y)
     

  3. Gert Odendaal

    Gert Odendaal AH Elite

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    Members, I purchased the 6.5 x 55 Swedish Mauser reamer...will build the rifle on a Carl Gustafson action, 28" inch Shilen barrel, 1:8 rifling twist, heavy sportster barrel profile , will cut the thread myself as well as the chamber .....the reamer is on it`s way..

    6.5 x 55 Swedish (SAAMI) Chamber Reamer -
    Choose Pilot Type : Solid Pilot, Choose
    Reamer Type : Finisher
    $105.00 1 $105.00


    Total Products $105.00
    Shipping Cost $10.60
    Total (Tax excl.) $115.60
    Total $115.60
    It is on it`s way ....I already commence working on the Carl Gustafson action..will blueprint it , bend the bolt handle and do some cosmetic upgrades to the action
     

  4. bruce moulds

    bruce moulds AH Elite

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    the 6.5x55 is a very tapered case and as such will gain significant capacity by improving it.
    this is unlike the 308 more parallel case.
    tapered cases grow more and as such require more trimming than improved parallel ones.
    this will lead to earlier incipient separations.
    the increase in capacity gain will give a worthwhile velocity increase.
    the improved shoulder angle will also assist direct flame back from the throat, reducing erosion.
    the drawback is the pain in the azz fireforming.
    with regards the m96 action, it lacks the safety lug of the m98, is cocking on the closing stroke, and has longer locktime.
    while some of these things can be dealt with, it is expensive, and is still second prize.
    if at all possible, use a floating pilot reamer.
    sorry this sounds negative, but is intended to be constructive.
    bruce.
     

  5. Gert Odendaal

    Gert Odendaal AH Elite

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    Thank you Bruce, info is much appreciated..Bruce, I already bought the 6.5 x 55 Swedish reamer, it is not improved, and is a solid pilot reamer..this have to do for a hunting rifle..there is really a great difference in price between the premium reamer and solid pilot reamer that made me purchase the solid pilot reamer (y)
     

  6. Butch Lambert

    Butch Lambert AH Senior Member

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    A pilot does not a benchrest , accuracy rifle make. If set up properly and good machinist practices are used, the lack of a pilot has no affect on a chambering job.
     
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  7. Gert Odendaal

    Gert Odendaal AH Elite

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    Butch I believe you are correct...I do have access to a lathe , Johan Greyling will assist me in chambering the 6.5 x 55 Swede when I receive the barrel and reamer in July..
     

  8. Gert Odendaal

    Gert Odendaal AH Elite

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    Bruce, I noticed the performance of the 6.4 x 47 Lapua caliber shooting a 140 gn bullet...it really has great performance compare to the 6.5 Creedmoor it is faster than the creedmoor ...is it a barrel burner???the 6.5 x 47 Lapua , is it a hunting caliber as well???
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2019

  9. bruce moulds

    bruce moulds AH Elite

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    gert,
    go for the swede for hunting.
    the creedmoor will shoot 140s faster than the x47 as it has a little more capacity.
    the swede will go a little faster again when all are loaded to sane pressures.
    swede brass seems to be cheaper than x47 for some reason, even when both are made by lapua.
    bruce.
     

  10. Gert Odendaal

    Gert Odendaal AH Elite

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    Thank Bruce for this advice..I already bought the 6.5 x 55 Sede reamer, barrel you got me , a lot of Lapua brass from HWL (92 cases and a RAM Inline rifle stock )the action Johan Greyling gave me, re-loading dies I will purchase as well. Tthe rifle build is completed telescope ( I currently have a 5- 25 x 50 , first focal plain ) I might just be able to get this combination working for me..will upload a photo of this scope).
    This process is changing all the time...I do have an Israeli Mauser in a 7.62 /308 caliber but unfortunately the rifling twist is a 1:14 which according to the people who do long range shooting and hunting at longer ranges than the 100 meter bush veld shots ...the 1:14 twist will not be a great long distance shooter /longer distance hunting rifle..
    So I now have a choice ; Sell the Israeli Mauser use the funds to finance the 6.5 x 55 Swede build.
    or
    Remove the barrel, use the Mauser action for the Swede 6.5 x 55 cal rifle..

    What choice would you and other members make in regards to this scenario??
     

  11. Shootist43

    Shootist43 AH ENABLER GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    Sell the Israeli Mauser as a complete rifle. Use the Carl Gustav action to build the Swede. That action is called the small ring Mauser for a reason. It was designed by Paul Mauser. I suspect you enjoy building rifles, but wouldn't it be cheaper to just buy a Swedish Mauser, providing they are available? Sporterized Swedes are available for about $400 in the States. Rifles in their original Military configuration run $600 - $700.
     
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  12. Gert Odendaal

    Gert Odendaal AH Elite

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    Shootist43, yes , you are correct , I like to build rifles for myself and learn about the process along the while building...I know I can buy a HOWA 6.5 x 55 Swede for a cheap price in South Africa..but it is a new rifle..I do not buy new rifles , I either get an old rifle for free or build an old rifle caliber I like..learning all the way while doing it..I am fortunate to have access to a great gunsmith shop , JS Gunsmit owner Johan Greyling, a good friend and always there to assist me...HWL was fortunate to have work in this gun smith shop with Johan Greyling, he will have memories of how great this gun smith shop is...you can build anything in this gunsmith shop.....I am even going to build two black powder , front loading canons in the near future..then I will build three other cannons to sell...accumulating funds for other building projects..(y)(y)(y)

    9b38a1e6-3a4c-4ba4-880b-34030032bb07.jpg
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 16, 2019
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  13. 375 Ruger Fan

    375 Ruger Fan AH ENABLER GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    @Gert Odendaal , you mentioned the barrel for your new build is a 28 inch Shilen. Is this the purchased length to which you will cut to length or is this the finished length you plan to install? Seems a bit long to me.
     

  14. Gert Odendaal

    Gert Odendaal AH Elite

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    375Ruger Fan, it is 28" but I am sure I would need to machine it down to 26.5 " inches..will see how it will be done when it arrive ....
     

  15. Gert Odendaal

    Gert Odendaal AH Elite

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    Members, I am currently reading a lot about the Swedish Mauser here is some info I got about the pressures the Swedish Actions are proofed at:
    "All Swedish Mausers were chambered for the 6.5×55mm cartridge, and all Swedish-made actions were proof-tested with a single 6.5×55mm proof round developing approximately 455 MPa (65,992 psi) piezo pressure (55,000 CUP).[4][5] Swedish Mausers were manufactured by Waffenfabrik Mauser AG in Oberndorf a/N in Germany and in Sweden by Carl Gustafs stads Gevärsfaktori and Husqvarna Vapenfabriks Aktiebolag. All Swedish Mausers, whether built in Germany or Sweden, were fabricated using a Swedish-supplied high grade tool steel alloyed with nickel, copper, and vanadium, a product then noted for its strength and corrosion resistance."
     

    Attached Files:


  16. Gert Odendaal

    Gert Odendaal AH Elite

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    More info:
    Americans would define the shoulder angle at alpha/2 ≈ 25.6 degrees. The common rifling twist rate for this cartridge is 220 mm (1 in 8.66 in), 4 grooves, Ø lands = 6.50 mm (0.256 in), Ø grooves = 6.73 mm (0.265 in), land width = 2.5 mm (0.098 in), and the primer type is large rifle.

    According to the official C.I.P. (Commission Internationale Permanente pour l'Epreuve des Armes à Feu Portatives) rulings the 6.5×55mm can handle up to 380.00 MPa (55,114 psi) P piezo pressure. In C.I.P. regulated countries every rifle cartridge combo has to be proofed at 125% of this maximum C.I.P. pressure to certify for sale to consumers. This means that 6.5×55mm chambered arms in C.I.P. regulated countries are currently (2013) proof tested at 475.00 MPa (68,893 psi) PE piezo pressure.[6]

    The German 6.5×57mm Mauser and the American .260 Remingtoncartridges are probably the closest European and American ballistic twins of the 6.5×55mm. The .260 Remington being a post World War II .308 Winchester-derived cartridge developed by Remington to provide 6.5×55mm performance in a short bolt action format. In the 21st century cartridges like the 6.5×47mm Lapua and the 6.5mm Creedmoor have entered the market that also provide similar performance.

    The SAAMI maximum average pressure (MAP) for this cartridge is 51,000 psi (351.6 MPa) piezo pressure (46,000 CUP).[8][9]

    All Swedish Mauser bolt actions were proof tested with a single 6.5×55mm proof round developing approximately 455 MPa (65,992 psi) piezo pressure (55,000 CUP).[10][11]

    Chamber differences rumour
    Some historians have assumed that there was a difference in cartridge blueprint measurements between Swedish and Norwegian 6.5×55mm ammunition, but this may be unintentional. Due to different interpretations of the blueprint standard, i.e. the standards of manufacturing using maximum chamber in the Krag vs. minimum chamber in the Swedish Mauser, a small percentage of the ammunition produced in Norway proved to be slightly oversize when chambered in the Swedish Mauser action, i.e. requiring a push on the bolt handle to chamber in the Swedish arm. A rumour arose not long after the 6.5×55mm cartridge was adopted that one could use Swedish ammunition in Norwegian rifles, but not Norwegian ammunition in Swedish rifles.[7] Some even alleged that this incompatibility was deliberate, to give Norway the tactical advantage of using captured ammunition in a war, while denying the same advantage to Sweden. However, after the rumour first surfaced in 1900, the issue was examined by the Swedish military. They declared the difference to be insignificant, and that both the Swedish and Norwegian ammunition were within the specified parameters laid down. Despite this finding, the Swedish weapon-historian Josef Alm repeated the rumour in a book in the 1930s, leading many to believe that there was a significant difference between the ammunition manufactured in Norway and Sweden.[7]

    Military ammunition
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Swedish 6.5×55mm skarp patron m/94/cartridge, ball m/94 ammunition
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Swedish 6.5×55mm skarp patron m/94 med projektil m/41 prickskytte/cartridge, ball, sniper m/41 ammunition
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Swedish 6.5×55mm lös patron m/95 blank ammunition with red wooden projectile
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Norwegian Krag–Jørgensen Model 1892 prototype rifle (not identical to the Model 1894 adopted for military use)
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Swedish Mauser Model 1896 rifle
    The militaries of Sweden and Norway loaded their 6.5×55mm skarp patron m/94 projektil m/94 (live cartridge m/94 projectile m/94) service ammunition with a 10.1 grams (156 gr) long round-nosed m/94 (B-projectile) bullet fired at a muzzle velocity of 725 m/s (2,379 ft/s) with 2,654 J (1,957 ft⋅lbf) muzzle energy from a 739 mm (29.1 in) long barrel up to the early phase of World War II and Norwegian occupation by Germany in 1940.

    From 1941 onwards, Sweden, which remained neutral during World War II, adopted skarp patron m/94 prickskytte m/41 (live cartridge m/94 sniping m/41) ammunition loaded with a 9.1 grams (140 gr) spitzer bullet (D-projectile) fired at a muzzle velocity of 800 m/s (2,625 ft/s) with 2,912 J (2,148 ft⋅lbf) muzzle energy from a 739 mm (29.1 in) long barrel.[12]Besides a pointed nose the m/41 D-projectile also had a boat tail. Originally developed for the m/41 sniper rifle, this new cartridge replaced the m/94 ammunition loaded with the M/94 projectile for general use.[13] Besides the two skarp patron (live full metal jacket ball cartridge) variants various other military 6.5×55mm ammunition types like enhanced precision, armor piercing, tracer, blank, inert and training cartridges were available. Swedish blanks or lös patron were loaded with bullet shaped wooden projectiles that were painted red. To fire these blanks the Swedish military used a Blank Firing Attachment (BFA). These adapters were mounted on the muzzle and designed to shred the wooden projectile as it exited the muzzle to prevent injuries to nearby people and to allow functioning of automatic weapons.

    The Swedish 6.5×55mm military ammunition was loaded to 320 MPa (46,412 psi) piezo pressure. The maximum pressure (P) for Swedish military ammunition was 330 MPa (47,862 psi).[14] That is significantly below the civilian (P) standards.

    Norwegian service
    The 6.5×55mm cartridge was used by Norway in the Krag–Jørgensen bolt-action rifle and in the Madsen machine gun, as well as in several prototype self-loading rifles.

    Swedish service
    In Swedish service, the 6.5×55mm cartridge was used in the Swedish Mauser family of bolt action arms comprising the m/94 (Model 1894)carbine, m/96 (Model 1896) long rifle, m/38 (Model 1938) short rifle and m/41 (Model 1941) sniper rifle and the Ag m/42 semi-automatic rifle.[15]The Swedish Mauser arms had a relatively tight 200 mm (1 in 7.87 in) twist rate optimized for stabilizing the relatively long heavy bullets used in the Swedish 6.5×55mm military service ammunition. It was also used in several light, medium and heavy machine guns such as the Schwarzlose, Browning BAR, Kg/1940 Light machine gun, Bren Gun, Browning M1917, Browning M1919 and FN MAG. The FN MAG was eventually returned to its original 7.62×51mm NATO chambering when the Swedish armed forces switched to that cartridge as its standard during the post-World War II era.

    Sporting use
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Expanding bullet loaded in a 6.5×55mm before and after expanding. The long base and small expanded diameter show that this is a bullet designed for deep penetration on large game. The bullet in the photo traveled more than halfway through a moose before coming to rest, performing as designed.
    The 6.5×55mm cartridge is highly esteemed as a hunting round in Europe (particularly in Scandinavia), and North America. It is used for killing most kind of game including reindeer and moose in Scandinavia, while in most other countries it is used for killing deer and other medium-sized game. Sportsmen who favor the round laud the combination of low recoil coupled with the cartridge's inherent accuracy and superb penetrative qualities due to the high obtainable sectional density. Despite its enduring popularity amongst a devoted niche of American sportsmen, U.S. rifle manufacturers have, for the most part, ignored the cartridge. There are, however, at present at least four mainstream American arms manufacturers, Thompson Center, Barrett Firearms (Fieldcraft), Remington (Model 700), and Ruger producing a sporting rifle in chambered for the 6.5×55mm.[16]

    European rifle makers including Blaser, CZ, Sauer & Sohn, Steyr, and Mauser Jagdwaffen GmbH offer sporting rifles chambered for this cartridge, as does the Finnish arms manufacturer SAKO/Tikka, and Japanese manufacturer Howa, while ammunition manufacturers such as Norma, Lapua, Prvi Partizan, RUAG Ammotec, Remington Arms, and Hornady offer loadings of the 6.5×55mm round that are designed for use only in modern hunting rifles that can tolerate higher chamber pressures. Finnish powder manufacturer Vihtavuori warns modern 380.00 MPa (55,114 psi) P piezo pressure loadings should never be used in the Krag–Jørgensen or Swedish Mauser or similar older rifles.[17] This warning is relevant as the Danish, Norwegian and Swedish national shooting organizations strive to keep the costs of participating in their shooting events reasonable. Their rulings restrict the use of very expensive highly specialized target rifles by allowing only the use of their respective (historic) military service rifles and the Sauer 200 STR rifle.

    Because 6.5 mm (.264") bullets have relatively high ballistic coefficients, the 6.5×55mm has seen success in long range target matches of 300 m (328 yd) – 1,000 m (1,094 yd). The 6.5×55mm cartridge was widely used in biathlon competition until 1975 (when it was replaced by the .22 Long Rifle(.22 LR) rimfire cartridge), because of its inherent accuracy and historical popularity with the Scandinavian nations who have dominated this sport.The 6.5×55mm was and is used for 1,000 yd (914.4 m) target shooting disciplines like F class and benchrest.[18] The cartridge is also used by Scandinavian target shooters that use the Sauer 200 STR (Scandinavian Target Rifle) as their competition rifle. Metallic silhouette shooters also use the 6.5×55mm.[19] In North America the 6.5×55mm was the third most frequently mentioned caliber for hunter rifle at the 2003 Metallic silhouette Nationals.[20]

    Wildcats
    The 6.5×55mm case is also used as the parent case for modified variants that are not officially registered with or sanctioned by C.I.P. or its American equivalent, SAAMI. Such cartridges which use commercial factory cases are generally known as wildcats. By changing the shape of standard factory cases (decreasing case taper or changing the shoulder geometry) the wildcatter generally increases the case capacity of the factory parent cartridge case, allowing more propellant to be used to generate higher velocities. Besides changing the shape and internal volume of the parent cartridge case, wildcatters also can change the original calibre. A reason to change the original calibre can be to comply with a minimal permitted calibre or bullet weight for the legal hunting of certain species of game. Because the 6.5×55mm offers a relatively wide short cartridge case that can be relatively easily reloaded and hence be reused several times it has been used by wildcatters. With the 6.5×55mm as the parent case wildcatters have created the 6.5×55mm Ackley Improved In the 6.5×55mm Ackley Improved the cartridge case capacity is raised to approximately 4.03 ml (62.2 grains HO). The Ackley Improved family of wildcat cartridges are designed to be easily made by rechambering existing firearms, and fireforming the ammunition to decrease body taper and increase shoulder angle, resulting in a higher case capacity.
     

  17. Shootist43

    Shootist43 AH ENABLER GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    Yes Gert that is true. The 1896Swedish Mausers were built out of better steel than the "revered" K 98(s). The original Swedes had 29" barrels. A good number of them were shortened to 24 ". The Husqvarna (M 38) versions were all 24 ". The Swede that I get the 2775 FPS from and that I took to Africa had a 24" barrel. The 1896 Swedish Mauser is a "modern rifle" and can be loaded as such. The 1894 Swedish Mauser actions are not as robust as the later 1896 versions and require the use of lower pressure cartridges. The anemic pressures and velocities of SAMMI spec. 6.5 x55 are necessary because they are used in Craig Jorgensons and the 1894 model Swedes.
     
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  18. Gert Odendaal

    Gert Odendaal AH Elite

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    Shootist, please read the following article...in this article the author has a different view on the strength
    of the Swedish Mauser action Carl Gustafson 1917...in relation to the Mauser action strength ...P .O Auckley suggest also "by bending the straight bolt of the Swedish action and cut it into the receiver frame will create a third lug that will bring the two lug Swedish Mauser action on the same level as the Mauser action 98K...
     

  19. Gert Odendaal

    Gert Odendaal AH Elite

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    The action I want to use is a Carl Gustafson 1917 action..were there any actions build after 1917??
    [​IMG] [​IMG]
     

  20. Shootist43

    Shootist43 AH ENABLER GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    Gert, I believe that 1917 was the last year the 1896 Mauser Action was produced. However the Actions of the M-38 rifles produced by Husqvarna are identical. From memory they were produced from 1938 through 1942. That last article you posted was terrific. If you read through the whole thing the "two lug" Swede failed a 100,000 psi. That confirms an article that I read many years ago supposedly written by the head of VV's Ballistics Department that stated that VV's Proof Barrel for the 6.5 x 55 was good for 81,000 PSI and that the action used to fire it was that of an 1896 Swedish Mauser. Some more food for thought is that there is no "pressure relief" hole in the Swede whereas there is one in the K 98.
     

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