Suppressors for heavy game rifles

[Pete Council]

Dear all:

I recently purchased CZ 550s in 375 and 416 Rigby for future African hunts (haven't been yet ) and, at least for the 375 , use on elk here in Montana. I am having the guns customizied and one thing I have had trouble getting any good information on is the use of noise supressors for rifles such as these--- this is in contrast to muzzle breaks which do not seem like a good idea given the potential hearing loss of every one nearby. I have seen picture on this site and elsewhere of people hunting with rifles having a supressor attached and I know that supressors for these calibers actually exist but are they a good idea?--- do they reduce recoil enough to matter? I would very much appreciate comment on this topic

-pete council
Sidney, Montana

 

[BRICKBURN]

Welcome to the posting side.

That 375 will do just fine on those Elk hunts.

I'll be interested to hear if anyone has a dangerous game caliber with a suppressor attached.

 

[stug]

This has been thoroughly hammered on forums down here in NZ. Everyone with a suppressor (including me) say they have a large effect on felt recoil.
There are a couple of guys doing testing that show they reduce recoil at most 25-30% in standard calibres, whereas a muzzle brake will be upto 50-60%.
The value of suppressors is the reduction in the muzzle blast making them a lot nicer to shoot.
Most suppressors made in NZ are the overbarrel sort that would require the front sight being removed.
If you can get in touch with Robbie at Gunworks in NZ. He has made suppressors for 50BMG and a few others. His email is gunsmith@gunworks.co.nz

 

[matt85]

i imagine a suppressor would help reduce the blast a little but its still going to be very loud. the other thing to keep in mind is the suppressor is going to add alot of weight to the muzzle of the rifle. increased muzzle weight changes the way a gun recoils and can make the gun less comfortable to shoot. the suppressor would have to made of steel to withstand the blast of the heavy cartridges which means your adding a couple pounds to your muzzle.

a muzzle heavy gun recoils strait back rather then up and back which means the felt recoil will be sharper. this might not make a big difference on the light recoiling 375 but i imagine the 416 would be fairly uncomfortable if not balanced properly.

-matt

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

i imagine a suppressor would help reduce the blast a little but its still going to be very loud. the other thing to keep in mind is the suppressor is going to add alot of weight to the muzzle of the rifle. increased muzzle weight changes the way a gun recoils and can make the gun less comfortable to shoot. the suppressor would have to made of steel to withstand the blast of the heavy cartridges which means your adding a couple pounds to your muzzle.

a muzzle heavy gun recoils strait back rather then up and back which means the felt recoil will be sharper. this might not make a big difference on the light recoiling 375 but i imagine the 416 would be fairly uncomfortable if not balanced properly.

-matt

I've always felt like less muzzle jump was better on felt recoil. Reason being that when the barrel jumps it's concentrating the recoil energy on a smaller spot at the top of the butt pad. Whereas straight back the energy or more evenly spread out across the butt pad. No?

 

[matt85]

I've always felt like less muzzle jump was better on felt recoil. Reason being that when the barrel jumps it's concentrating the recoil energy on a smaller spot at the top of the butt pad. Whereas straight back the energy or more evenly spread out across the butt pad. No?

ive played around with weight and balance a fair bit with heavy recoiling guns and in the end its actually better to be slightly "butt heavy" then "muzzle heavy". my theory on why this is happens is that some of the recoil is being used to lift the gun rather then all the recoil being delivered strait into your shoulder. however you cant be too "butt heavy" because this would mean the recoil has less weight to lift and would cause too much muzzle flip and wouldn't reduce recoil properly. a proper balance is needed of just enough weight in the front to keep muzzle flip down to manageable levels but not enough weight to prevent the muzzle flip all together.

its really amazing how the balance of a gun can effect felt recoil. ive fired a 450 NE 3.25" that was MUCH less comfortable then my 505 Gibbs firing heavy loads. it weighed the same as my Gibbs and had the same LOP but the weight was all in the barrel. the 450 NE delivered a sharp hit strait into the shoulder while the 505 Gibbs just gives a heavy shove despite firing a bullet thats 120gr heavier and 200fps faster.

ill take a balanced 577 NE over a muzzle heavy 416 any day of the week.

-matt

 

[stug]

Here is a video of a 50BMG suppressor

 

[Bruce]

NOT for me... I want as FEW things capable of going wrong to be around when hunting DG... especially in THICK bush, where this suppressor gadget MAY cause the rifle to get caught up in branches and jesse etc... I even remove the rifle sling in these conditions... and on my 458 WM I have swing off scope mounts so that I can remove the scope in a flash and hand it to the tracker or porter to carry while in the thick stuff!!
Recoil on both 375 and 458 does NOT bother me in the bush shooting... and I am sure that by the time the BIG BANG goes off, it won't bother the animal for much longer either!!

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

I know very little about silencers or suppressors, but have noticed they are becoming more noticeable. Also seeing more articles written on them. There's a video on the website that shows a guy shooting various rifles without a suppressor and then shooting the same rifle suppressed. They give comparative data on noise and recoil. They don't mention that some of the recoil reduction comes from the weight of the suppressor.
http://silencerco.com/products/harvester/

One of the better articles I've read lately was on Realguns.com. The article deals with a silencer on a pistol, but the physics should be the same for a rifle.
Advanced Armament Corporation's Ti-Rant 45M Part 1: http://www.realguns.com/articles/753.htm
Advanced Armament Corporation's Ti-Rant 45M Part 2: http://www.realguns.com/articles/754.htm

One thing I'd be interested in, can you shorten a barrel of a rifle to accommodate the suppressor and not add to the overall length? If the suppressor is 8 inches long, can you trim a 24 inch barrel to 16, screw on the suppressor and not lose too much velocity? Or would this violate the "No free lunch" law of physics?

 

[matt85]

One thing I'd be interested in, can you shorten a barrel of a rifle to accommodate the suppressor and not add to the overall length? If the suppressor is 8 inches long, can you trim a 24 inch barrel to 16, screw on the suppressor and not lose too much velocity? Or would this violate the "No free lunch" law of physics?

the suppressor will not give you the extra velocity, so a 16" barrel will give the same velocity with or without a suppressor.

-matt

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

Matt,

I know a supressor won't give extra velocity. But my question is will 8 inches of suppressor act similar to 8 inches of barrel? If it does, then by cutting off 8 inches of barrel and screwing on an 8 inch suppressor will give you similar velocity and a similar overall length rifle. That was the point I was trying to make. As Bruce pointed out, nobody really wants to carrying a hunting rifle in the bush that has over 30 inches of barrel+suppressor. Or when Pete is elk hunting in Montana, he might want to put the rifle in a scabbard on the horse. Chopping the barrel off might be a reasonable option if you plan to shoot the rifle all the time with the suppressor. Otherwise, you end up with a low performance and loud 375 H&H carbine

 

[Philip Glass]

Yes they are available (anything you want these days and custom made as well), yes they reduce recoil by more than a third. The added 2 plus pounds is he only downside as well as trouble exporting for the safari. I was told (by ATF) you need a letter from the State Dept to take it with you.
Philip

 

[stug]

I have a suppressor on my 7 08. I cut the barrel from 24" to 18". With my load of 2209/H4350 I lost nearly 200fps with a 140 corelokts. I have since switched to 110gr TTSX and H335. I get nearly 3000fps wih this combination.
The best rifles to suppress are ones like 308 and 338 federal. You nead an efficient cartridge to ensure you lose the least velocity per inch of barrel.
Putting a suppressor on gives about a 50fps velocity increase.

 

[matt85]

Matt,

I know a supressor won't give extra velocity. But my question is will 8 inches of suppressor act similar to 8 inches of barrel?

no, you will lose velocity.

-matt

 

[Odinsraven]

Have an 8mm Remington Magnum which I have suppressed it came standard as a 22" barrel .......

Bearing in mind the 8mm kicks harder than the 375 HH its parent cartridge and delivers north of 4000ft lbs ........

The suppressor makes things a lot more pleasant all around. I use this rifle for plains game culling so a day with a dozen shots is not unheard off .........

I find the main advantage is time to second shot which improves dramatically .........

Will be at the range soon so will run before and after to get some FPS data ..........

The suppressor is a Swedish design which comes in 2 parts - part one is a muzzle brake and part two is suppression.

But yes if you do not need iron sights they work ! But on a DG hunt would prefer to retain my Irons.

Muzzle brakes are for 105mm and upwards IMHO

 

[DM Shooting]

I've shot 375 H&H and other heavy calibres especially 338 Lap Mag the moderator makes a significant difference to the felt recoil. however it also effects the handling making the rifle less pointable fine on the 338 as its a long range rifle the 375 lost its ablity to be brought to bear quickly on the target and hard to shoot off hand for and period requiring sticks for most shots.

This was even with light moderators light the Aimzonic and Hardys, I run both of these on 222/243/308&30-06

 

[BWH]

I have several suppressors. 22, 223, .30 & .45 cals. Long story.... Friend at silencerco, gun trust, etc.... Here's my data.

Less recoil... Yes, some
More Velocity.... No, not really
Better accuracy... I think so.
Less painful.... Hell yes!!! (Ears)

People that are not familiar think you just "put" them on your gun..... WRONG! You must have a threaded barrel to start with.

 

[BWH]

Personally, not sure there is any science behind it. However, IMHO.... I think there is a direct corollary between sound/noise & felt recoil. I think the noise causes more jump than any "push" from a gun. If guns didn't make noise, be a lot more bullseyes.

 

[ArmyGrunt]

I only have one suppressor in my collection. I have not, YET, fired any large bore guns. (that's coming next week with the new 375 Ruger!) I have the can mounted on my SIG SSG3000. http://www.sigsauer.com/CatalogProductDetails/ssg-3000-24-patrol.aspx I never had the ugly muzzle device seen in that stock photo. Its a heavy gun at 12 lbs before a scope, but still has a very sharp recoil at the shoulder. It's also been on my 30-06. With both rifles I was incredibly impressed with the change in felt recoil. It has an adapter for placement on a number of weapons including the smaller 5.56.
http://www.griffinarmament.com/Recce-7-Silencer-p/garec7.htm
I don't have the mod 3, but an earlier model. I've fired both guns with the regular barrel, muzzle brake adapter, and the can. Just using the brake adapter reduced a fair amount of impulse. I feel putting the suppressor on the end of the rifle makes my 308 feel like shooting a 5.56 with a buffer. A fascinating change, indeed. I'm starting to look into finding a large suppressor for the new magnum. If anyone has a hint, I'll gratefully follow the guidance!

I have read, in my original suppressor search, that occasionally one can get small gains in velocity with suppression.

 

[enysse]

I would personally learn to shoot without one. A 375 H&H is not bad to shoot with practice. I honestly don't think suppressors would be fun to carry around in the brush.