SOUTH AFRICA: KoringKoppie Hunting Safaris *Warning* Stay Away

[Hogpatrol]

 

[Philip Glass]

Amazingly bad hunt! Thank you so much for sharing this as tough as it was to relive. This should never happen.
1. PHASA must make this right if they have any integrity. Donations to SCI and DSC are vetted and highly scrutinized before allowed in. If this happens in those orgs the outfitter is banned.
2. Sadly there are many stories of bad operators on small acreage in Limpopo.

 

[Hunt anything]

I completely agree. This thread can serve its purpose without insulting other hunters who are likely beyond proud of the animals they harvested.

I agree, I would give anything to take my dad (like the last hunt report on korrinkoppie) .
to Africa on any kind of hunt , full freight, auction or any type of hunt . I wouldn’t care if it was all sub-par animals . Just to hunt with my dad again, this will never happen as he is bed ridden. So I will try to never criticize a hunt or animal. At least that is never my intention.

 

[Philip Glass]

This thread has been an adventure in it's self. An abundance of topics, scenarios and speculations have been debated with most employing some form of learning experience we all could benefit from, I certainly have.

It is most unfortunate for the OP that the makings of a new experience was hendered from what seems to rooted from lack of communication and bad attitudes. And yes, it's unfortunate for the hunting lodge as their name and reputation have been devastated, was this called for? Sure would help if their side of the story was known, otherwise silents will issue guilt and humiliation.

Similar to the OP, my hunting trip was an auction win, 5 day hunt for 4 hunters in the Limpopo area. Had a wonderful time, shared those experiences in the hunting report section. Would I revisit the lodge we stayed with, absolutely, would gladly book a full price stay. Though the Eastern Cape has a draw on me too.

I do have a thought for folks to ponder on, when bashing the auctioned hunts, or the cheap way out as some have pointed out. Our trip was won at a friend's of the NRA convention, which carries a tax deduction for the doner. It is not upfront income, but helps on the back side and the lodge we stayed at is American owned so they would have benefited from this. Excuse my illiteracy on the auctioned hunts, are these generally part of a charitable event so as to claim the tax breaks. I have no knowledge on SA tax laws, but I would assume the SA owner/operators would have some form of tax breaks for donated/auctioned hunts.

Does not excuse the sour attitudes the OP had to endure, but it's a thought.

In the US to get a tax deduction it must be to a 501c3 and a the deduction is only the amount paid over the items value. No idea about RSA.

 

[Mtn_Infantry]

In the US to get a tax deduction it must be to a 501c3 and a the deduction is only the amount paid over the items value. No idea about RSA.

While I’m not an accountant or tax lawyer, I was just coming to say the same thing. The only Auction Hunts this is really relevant with are the big North American Auction Tags, bidding $200-600k on a Governors Sheep or Elk tag is a major tax write off BUT you need to have a bough income where that deduction benefits you.

 

[poco]

Hopefully this thread survives, seems like the bad ones get deleted due to the bickering
The database of terrible ouffitters seem to disappear
Like that last one on the Zimbabwean guy & obnoxious guy from Arizona last month
Bad reports are a messy but important data tool

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Bashing another member's animals that they are proud of because you think poorly of the outfitter seems pretty gross to me. I get the person was probably asked to come on and write a positive review by the outfitter who should come on here and do his dirty work himself. But, man, what a bad look for the site and what a horrible way to treat new members. Some people tell them to go post their own hunt report, but why would anyone want to write a hunt report with the comments people are making after posting a few photos.

I've also seen a lot of Blue Wildebeest posted to the site that looked just like that one or even smaller and everyone just said "congratulations".

Size and sex is not the issue being criticized. That wildebeest had a defective horn. It was a cull. Probably inbred. No one is saying the client is an idiot for shooting the thing. Seems he didn't know any better. If he doesn't know the outfitter had him taking out the garbage and paying for it, then how do we tell him he got screwed without pointing out the animals are garbage? And if he doesn't know he got screwed, he is likely to go back and get screwed again. The sad part is the outfitter obviously recruited this client to come on here and fight his battles for him, knowing full well he had him shooting culls as trophy animals. I hope the client is now wiser. He should not be upset with this forum for exposing his naivity. Being naive is what first safaris are about. It's expected. That's why we are required to have PHs when hunting. He should be upset with the outfitter, not singing his praises.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

While I’m not an accountant or tax lawyer, I was just coming to say the same thing. The only Auction Hunts this is really relevant with are the big North American Auction Tags, bidding $200-600k on a Governors Sheep or Elk tag is a major tax write off BUT you need to have a bough income where that deduction benefits you.

If they are buying the tag, how is it a tax writeoff? The "winner" purchases a product. I don't think that works up here. Shouldn't. If I buy a gun at a DU auction, I can't write off the amount paid as a gift. The donor gets the writeoff, not the buyer.

Sorry for derailment. Just curious.

Edit: I see it was explained on the next page of posts. Sorry. Thanks for explanation.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

This thread has been an adventure in it's self. An abundance of topics, scenarios and speculations have been debated with most employing some form of learning experience we all could benefit from, I certainly have.

It is most unfortunate for the OP that the makings of a new experience was hendered from what seems to rooted from lack of communication and bad attitudes. And yes, it's unfortunate for the hunting lodge as their name and reputation have been devastated, was this called for? Sure would help if their side of the story was known, otherwise silents will issue guilt and humiliation.

Similar to the OP, my hunting trip was an auction win, 5 day hunt for 4 hunters in the Limpopo area. Had a wonderful time, shared those experiences in the hunting report section. Would I revisit the lodge we stayed with, absolutely, would gladly book a full price stay. Though the Eastern Cape has a draw on me too.

I do have a thought for folks to ponder on, when bashing the auctioned hunts, or the cheap way out as some have pointed out. Our trip was won at a friend's of the NRA convention, which carries a tax deduction for the doner. It is not upfront income, but helps on the back side and the lodge we stayed at is American owned so they would have benefited from this. Excuse my illiteracy on the auctioned hunts, are these generally part of a charitable event so as to claim the tax breaks. I have no knowledge on SA tax laws, but I would assume the SA owner/operators would have some form of tax breaks for donated/auctioned hunts.

Does not excuse the sour attitudes the OP had to endure, but it's a thought.

Well articulated. Thanks.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Says the new member sent by the Outfitter in question to defend the new members sent by the outfitter in question

Ah, I didn't catch that. Good eye.

 

[Mtn_Infantry]

If they are buying the tag, how is it a tax writeoff? The "winner" purchases a product. I don't think that works up here. Shouldn't. If I buy a gun at a DU auction, I can't write off the amount paid as a gift. The donor gets the writeoff, not the buyer.

Sorry for derailment. Just curious.

Edit: I see it was explained on the next page of posts. Sorry. Thanks for explanation.

Yah it has to do with the cost paid vs actual cost.

Example: You draw the Non-Res Bighorn Sheep Tag in New Mexico. Cost to purchase the tag is $3,173. You decide to buy the same tag at the Sheep Show Auction to avoid the draw, knowing a vast majority of the money paid will go directly back into Wild Sheep conservation & research. This year that same New Mexico tag (you could’ve drawn) sold for $600,000 breaking the previous $310,000 record. You can declare the difference in tag cost vs the amount paid as the rest of the money went to a 501c3 charity benefiting wild sheep conservation and research. Since 1990 that one NM Bighorn raffle tag has generated $5,292,000 since 1990 for Wild Sheep Conservation.

 

[Randy Bo]

Agreed.
If I read a report of someone who went to Africa first time I take it with a grain of salt regardless who the outfitter is.
Same for the hunter goes to Africa multiple times but sticks with the same outfit.
What's the yardstick?
You don't know what you don't know.
I've been to Africa multiple times and just spent 2 months there between Zim and RSA but I'm still learning and not only about hunting.....

This is to all of the first time safari hunters/reporters and to members like @Mark Biggerstaff:
Please do not let comments like this dissuade you from posting your hunt reports.
I have a feeling (and hope) that this type of opinion is in the extreme minority here on AH.

 

[375Fox]

This is to all of the first time safari hunters/reporters and to members like @Mark Biggerstaff:
Please do not let comments like this dissuade you from posting your hunt reports.
I have a feeling (and hope) that this type of opinion is in the extreme minority here on AH.

I don’t think that post was written to dissuade anyone writing a hunt report. I enjoy reading most reports regardless the experience level. However, when it comes to taking a recommendation from a hunter, multiple trips to Africa where someone has had the ability to hunt multiple camps, regions, PHs is important to me. There are a few first time hunters who chose one of the best to for their first hunt. Then there are a few who could have had a much better experience than they did and don’t realize i but still make the recommendation as one of the best. I’m sorry Mark took offense to some comments made because I really respect him and appreciate his contributions. However, the “puff pieces” written in this thread are obviously first time African hunters and there are several established members who frequently present misinformation because they haven’t realized Africa is a huge continent. The hunting from one area to the next and one outfitter to the next can vary greatly. Almost everyone thinks their first African hunt is the best, when it’s really only the best they’ve done so far in most cases.

 

[Doubleplay]

This is to all of the first time safari hunters/reporters and to members like @Mark Biggerstaff:
Please do not let comments like this dissuade you from posting your hunt reports.
I have a feeling (and hope) that this type of opinion is in the extreme minority here on AH.

Really?
If you think my post is about discouraging people writing hunt reports, think again.
On the contrary I encourage people to read and write hunt reports but they should also able to differentiate a hunt report written by a first time hunter vs a hunter who has ben to Africa multiple times with different outfits.
Imagine someone being in Africa first time and complains or praises an outfit.
Would it hold the same weight for you if some other person who has been to Africa multiple times does the same thing.
I never hunted elephant, how would I know my PH(outfit) or the area I hunted is mediocre, good or best?
But I hunted buffalo in different places and countries so I have an idea...
Same for camps, food and staff.
Got my drift..
Go read some of the above hunt reports written by the friends of the outfitter.
Would you trust them?

 

[Randy Bo]

@375Fox and @Doubleplay
I am certain there are probably disingenuous reports posted here but those reports are not what I am referring to.
I am referring to the honest and genuine reports posted by first timers and long established members like Mark, MDWEST and Tom Leoni (who have hunted with same outfitter several times).
I have not read in any honest hunt report:
- This outfitter is the best.
- My PH is the best.
- The animals here are the best.

What I have read:
- The staff made me feel like family.
- My PH and trackers worked really hard.
- I am 100% satisfied with my experience here.
I mean what else is a first time or returning hunter supposed to say if that is the experience they had?

 

[Ontario Hunter]

@375Fox and @Doubleplay
I am certain there are probably disingenuous reports posted here but those reports are not what I am referring to.
I am referring to the honest and genuine reports posted by first timers and long established members like Mark, MDWEST and Tom Leoni (who have hunted with same outfitter several times).
I have not read in any honest hunt report:
- This outfitter is the best.
- My PH is the best.
- The animals here are the best.

What I have read:
- The staff made me feel like family.
- My PH and trackers worked really hard.
- I am 100% satisfied with my experience here.
I mean what else is a first time or returning hunter supposed to say if that is the experience they had?

Exactly. If the first timer enjoys himself, that's what counts. And it can go a long way towards bringing him back. I have read some first timer reports on here that described great hunts. Most included photos of at least acceptable trophies, by my standards anyway. I have read way too many comments from the ubiquitous Stewart Granger types demanding that everyone treat their judgment like the Fifth Gospel just because they've made the circuit to different outfits and/or countries. That turns me right off.

I do hope we haven't soured the newbie on African hunting who posted praises of this outfitter with photos of cull animals. I mean really, at some point someone will tell him the things on his wall were only worth the $/lb meat price. I think he might then be upset having come onto this forum thinking his trophies are praiseworthy and no one in the prestigious community of experienced African hunters said anything to set him straight. He got ripped off. It happens. Get back in the saddle with some other outfitter. He's still got a spot on the wall waiting for a kudu.

 

[Sabre]

Says the new member sent by the Outfitter in question to defend the new members sent by the outfitter in question

It's funny you say this because my first few posts to the site were actually during this thread when a bunch of members turned on OP and were bashing him for how he handled the situation. If I recall correctly I was saying that from the pictures he posted no one sticking up for the outfitter would be thrilled to have the waterbuck, impala, and warthog he posted as trophies. So my first posts to the site were to criticize the outfitter for taking smaller animals than he should and calling them trophies. But I did it without resorting to being a jerk about other people's animals they were happy about. You actually agreed with those posts, liked them, and replied in agreement.

It is just now that I have said a comment, that we shouldn't bash other members trophies they are proud of, that you were taking part in, now I am a corporate spy from the outfitter. Which is silly. I have never hunted with that outfitter, I have never once in this thread stuck up for the outfitter. I just had the radical opinion that we should stick to what I've seen for years on this forum and that is to not put down other member's trophies they are happy with.

The only thing I have said that could be warped to be construed as me defending the outfitter would be that I said it would be good to hear both sides of the story. I still think that would be good.

I really didn't think saying that people shouldn't be "mean girls" would be controversial. In the 2-3 years that I have read threads on this site, I haven't really seen people do it before.

New member, not new to the site, and not new to hunting. I have been reading the site for years. I, in part, joined to share my hunting stories in the trip reports. But there is about a 0% chance I will be interested in doing that now.

 

[Sabre]

Ah, I didn't catch that. Good eye.

Not a good eye, and nothing to catch. Person jumped to conclusions despite evidence showing the exact opposite in earlier posts just because they disagreed with a recent post.

 

[Sabre]

Size and sex is not the issue being criticized. That wildebeest had a defective horn. It was a cull. Probably inbred. No one is saying the client is an idiot for shooting the thing. Seems he didn't know any better. If he doesn't know the outfitter had him taking out the garbage and paying for it, then how do we tell him he got screwed without pointing out the animals are garbage? And if he doesn't know he got screwed, he is likely to go back and get screwed again. The sad part is the outfitter obviously recruited this client to come on here and fight his battles for him, knowing full well he had him shooting culls as trophy animals. I hope the client is now wiser. He should not be upset with this forum for exposing his naivity. Being naive is what first safaris are about. It's expected. That's why we are required to have PHs when hunting. He should be upset with the outfitter, not singing his praises.

Genuinely curious what you are referring to as a "defective horn". I am not arguing with you, I am just asking for clarification. The wildebeest in the picture seriously looks like many other wildebeest I have seen on the site where everyone said it looked great. In the Judging Wildebeest thread, this wildebeest posted seems to match the characteristics outlined in that thread.

 

[.300RUM]

I respect the end decision for any hunter, it's a choice of what the hunter sees in their sights and what their PH is telling them what they see. Do you research and homework BEFORE YOU GO. Do not become a victim of your on ignorance, mistakes will be made, I did. My first take was the Gemsbok in my profile that had to be tracked for quite some time. You can blame jetlag, lack of sleep, anxiety, it was a piss-poor first shot. I credit my PH and tracker for finding it, was a sinking feeling until they did track it down and was able to put a finishing round in it.