Sling or no sling

[Muntjacer23]

You’ll get used to mounting the rifle on quad sticks quickly with a sling. It doesn’t take much adapting to. Here in the UK all deer stalking involves quad sticks and you soon get the knack of setting out the sticks and mounting the gun in one motion. But I presume on this occasion the PH will open the sticks for you so even less to worry about

 

[Lancaster]

Does anyone have a brand name for the rubber slings?

I put a link in my post

 

[Red Leg]

I have used a sling and not used a sling. I all depends on the terrain and what your hunting. Absolutely no sling in heavy cover. When on my shoulder and the muzzle pointed at the ground, I have my Winchester decoked for added safety. When I need to shoot, I have to just lift the bolt and recook the firing pin. This how my rifle sits in the truck when driving in the ranch as well. In all I would say 70% of the time with no sling, unless we were on an elephant march, then always a sling.

When hunting with my Thompson Contender it's in a cross the chest holster, unless the game is close then it's carried close the chest military style. So no sling for it, even though I have one for it.

If I read this correctly, you are walking and driving around with a round in the chamber and firing pin resting against the primer?

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Many of you have made sling recommendations. If I decide to use a sling, it will be this one.
View attachment 762467

A couple things for you to consider. First, those Uncle Mike quick detach swivels are pretty much junk. The locking pins are only peened/pressed into the housing. Eventually they become loose and floppy. Then it's a hassle relocking them into their receiver hole. And then one day you discover the pins have simply fallen out! Also, if you do decide to use them, be sure to add the plastic spacer when installing their swivel studs in the stock. They are not just for decoration! The spacers keep their articulated swivels from flopping against the stock and scratching the finish. I use Titan detachable sling swivels. No articulation and don't touch my stock if the sling is installed (why would anyone leave detachable swivels attached to a stock without a sling?). Also no peened together parts to fall apart.

The other thing to consider is the width of the sling. Fatter width does distribute the gun's weight more broadly but if you are wearing a back/daypack, you may find it difficult to keep a fat sling on top of the pack's padded shoulder straps. A wide sling tends to wander on top of the strap and slide off my shoulder. A narrower sling can be situated between the pack shoulder strap and my neck, or at least on that side of the shoulder strap, where it's more inclined to stay put.

 

[JG26Irish_2]

This is one method I wouldn’t remotely consider using with a hunting rifle. It looks like a great way to plug a barrel with dirt. Most hunting rifles the barrels are too long for this to be practical. Also most members aren’t in good enough shape to carry like this all day. Someone on a long track tired at the end of the day isn’t watching their barrel as closely as at the start. Barrel facing up is a lot more forgiving. Barrel bands move the rifle down on your shoulder considerably as well.

By all objective measures the African carry looks unsafe but I know of no accidents from carrying it that way. All the accidents I’ve been made aware of have occurred when someone’s finger was near the trigger when it shouldn’t be and Blaser safety’s.

To each his own and you are intitled to your opinion as much as any but, I will respectfully disagree with you. Until you try the Rhodesian carry, you cannot imagine how effective it can be. True, you could slip and jam a muzzle into the dirt but, I have never heard of anyone doing that either. Like all carry methods, there are times to adjust. When I am sliding down a steep muddy hill, I can unsling the rifle or swap to the American/Military carry with muzzle up before crossing rough terrain. My main DG rifle has a 26" bbl and the muzzle is never close to the ground. But, I am 6'2" so, there is that. I suppose if one is a little short guy it might require a shorter bbl to work. I also know that the use of suppressors adds length and can be an issue. But, my approach is aimed toward DG hunting with a sling on the rifle where it can be necessary to deploy the rifle in seconds and few hunters are currently hunting dangerous game with suppressors today. Plus when you know you are in contact with DG close by, you can unsling at any time to get ready. We were stalking Cape Buffalo a few years ago in tight thorn thickets one day and were so close we could smell them and hear them breaking branches but could not see for a shot. The rifle came off the should then.

Nothing works 100% of the time. If/when you get tired, you can always switch methods as well. As for the African carry looking unsafe? A muzzle sweep of a fellow hunter is a massive safety failure. You do not have to shoot them or kill them for it to be unsafe. It is almost impossible to negotiate a winding path thru the bush using the African carry without sweeping your muzzle from side to side and on occasion pointing it at the people in front of you. If you are hunting Buffalo, Lion, Ele there will likely be you, the PH, another PH who is getting experience on DG hunting, a tracker or three, a game officer (if certain countries), possibly a cameraman, or an observer or fellow hunter along for the hunt. Four or five of this group are likely to be armed if not more. That is a lot of muzzles to keep track of. No thanks.

When I was taught gun handling, rule #1 was: "Never point a loaded weapon at anyone or anything you do not plan to shoot". Rule #2 was: "All guns are to be treated as loaded". If chambers are verified empty, you might carry African style but you would not be ready to hunt if a surprise opportunity stepped out. It would be an OK method to use at the end of the day when all hunting has ended and you are hiking back to the Bakkie with an unloaded rifle, but if you are hunting truly wild country were you could encounter DG unexpectedly somebody should have a loaded gun. Same would apply to bear country in North America.

I have one hunting rifle that I use without a sling. It is a big bore, 16" bbl lever rifle. It is very short and light and generally, I carry it muzzle down or up in my left hand but generally, I only use it when I am alone. It is for when I am hiking or fishing in bear country or deer hunting in thick cover using a stalking method. It has iron ghost ring sights and while it shoots well, it is only a 100y or less rifle.

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

My first DG hunt was with John Sharp in the BVC. In the contract for the hunt, it was specifically stated that the client's rifle must have a sling and must use it. Two or three people (trackers, PH, etc) are typically in front of the client while stalking in the bush. For their safety, the best thing a client can do is keep the rifle shouldered with a sling.

 

[migrabill]

A couple things for you to consider. First, those Uncle Mike quick detach swivels are pretty much junk. The locking pins are only peened/pressed into the housing. Eventually they become loose and floppy. Then it's a hassle relocking them into their receiver hole. And then one day you discover the pins have simply fallen out! Also, if you do decide to use them, be sure to add the plastic spacer when installing their swivel studs in the stock. They are not just for decoration! The spacers keep their articulated swivels from flopping against the stock and scratching the finish. I use Titan detachable sling swivels. No articulation and don't touch my stock if the sling is installed (why would anyone leave detachable swivels attached to a stock without a sling?). Also no peened together parts to fall apart.

The other thing to consider is the width of the sling. Fatter width does distribute the gun's weight more broadly but if you are wearing a back/daypack, you may find it difficult to keep a fat sling on top of the pack's padded shoulder straps. A wide sling tends to wander on top of the strap and slide off my shoulder. A narrower sling can be situated between the pack shoulder strap and my neck, or at least on that side of the shoulder strap, where it's more inclined to stay put.

The detach swivels are an optional purchase. I can buy the sling and purchase my own swivels. I will probably go with Titans.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

To each his own and you are intitled to your opinion as much as any but, I will respectfully disagree with you. Until you try the Rhodesian carry, you cannot imagine how effective it can be. True, you could slip and jam a muzzle into the dirt but, I have never heard of anyone doing that either. Like all carry methods, there are times to adjust. When I am sliding down a steep muddy hill, I can unsling the rifle or swap to the American/Military carry with muzzle up before crossing rough terrain. My main DG rifle has a 26" bbl and the muzzle is never close to the ground. But, I am 6'2" so, there is that. I suppose if one is a little short guy it might require a shorter bbl to work. I also know that the use of suppressors adds length and can be an issue. But, my approach is aimed toward DG hunting with a sling on the rifle where it can be necessary to deploy the rifle in seconds and few hunters are currently hunting dangerous game with suppressors today. Plus when you know you are in contact with DG close by, you can unsling at any time to get ready. We were stalking Cape Buffalo a few years ago in tight thorn thickets one day and were so close we could smell them and hear them breaking branches but could not see for a shot. The rifle came off the should then.

Nothing works 100% of the time. If/when you get tired, you can always switch methods as well. As for the African carry looking unsafe? A muzzle sweep of a fellow hunter is a massive safety failure. You do not have to shoot them or kill them for it to be unsafe. It is almost impossible to negotiate a winding path thru the bush using the African carry without sweeping your muzzle from side to side and on occasion pointing it at the people in front of you. If you are hunting Buffalo, Lion, Ele there will likely be you, the PH, another PH who is getting experience on DG hunting, a tracker or three, a game officer (if certain countries), possibly a cameraman, or an observer or fellow hunter along for the hunt. Four or five of this group are likely to be armed if not more. That is a lot of muzzles to keep track of. No thanks.

When I was taught gun handling, rule #1 was: "Never point a loaded weapon at anyone or anything you do not plan to shoot". Rule #2 was: "All guns are to be treated as loaded". If chambers are verified empty, you might carry African style but you would not be ready to hunt if a surprise opportunity stepped out. It would be an OK method to use at the end of the day when all hunting has ended and you are hiking back to the Bakkie with an unloaded rifle, but if you are hunting truly wild country were you could encounter DG unexpectedly somebody should have a loaded gun. Same would apply to bear country in North America.

I have one hunting rifle that I use without a sling. It is a big bore, 16" bbl lever rifle. It is very short and light and generally, I carry it muzzle down or up in my left hand but generally, I only use it when I am alone. It is for when I am hiking or fishing in bear country or deer hunting in thick cover using a stalking method. It has iron ghost ring sights and while it shoots well, it is only a 100y or less rifle.

Okay, for the heck of it I tried playing with the "Rhodesian carry" method as illustrated on page one of this thread. First, I don't care for my bolt jabbing me in the side, getting caught in clothing, and pushing the gun away from my body. Second, I can find NO reason to believe a rifle slung this way can be deployed any faster than one slung on my shoulder with barrel up. Or is the guy in the photo left-handed shooting a right-handed rifle? Okay, apparently that was the case. So try it from the left shoulder. 1) Grab the gun barrel with left hand and pull it up to dislodge rifle from shoulder. 2) Reach across my body with right hand and catch the stock's pistol grip as rifle is leaving the left shoulder (while left hand is still hanging onto skinny gun barrel). 3) Let go of gun barrel and reattach left hand to fore end. 4) Bring gun across my body with two hands and mount it on my right shoulder. Did I get it right? Now, let's see how I dislodge and mount a normal barrel-up rifle from right shoulder. 1) Right hand is gripping sling strap at front of shoulder. That's how the rifle is carried. 2) The gun is pulled off my shoulder with that hand. No repositioning of the hand is needed. It's already there and ready to go. 3) Left hand comes across my body and grabs the fore end. 4) Right hand then releases the sling and grabs the pistol grip. 5) Gun is mounted to shoot. So the differences are: A) The left hand must leave the sling strap at shoulder and find the barrel to get the Rhodesian method started. B) Both arms must reach across the body to complete the Rhodesian maneuver. C) The left hand has to be repositioned twice: from shoulder sling strap to barrel and then to fore end. D) The rifle must be transferred from left side of body to right side to deploy Rhodesian method. For standard shoulder carry deployment takes place entirely on my right side (I am right-handed). Swapping sides, even for a skinny guy like me, involves some tricky gun aerobatics. For a typically more rotund client it could be even more tricky. I am not convinced Rhodesian carry can deploy quicker. Actually, the opposite. If Newton's Laws are valid, it would seem the extra motions involved with Rhodesian carry = extra energy expended. If the same energy is applied to both methods to get the gun to shoulder and mounted (assuming shooter has fixed amount of energy available to deploy both methods), the Rhodesian method would require more time to deploy. And of course there is the added advantage of potentially sticking the muzzle in the mud. It seems to me this was just another case of Jeff Copper trying to fix something that wasn't broken.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

In regard to sling getting in the way on sticks or a cradle in a blind. One can pull the sling back tight against the stock. It actually acts like a cushion. Here is the sequence.

First picture is getting ready to go on sticks.
View attachment 762438

On the sticks, you can see the sling flat against the gun.

View attachment 762439

That's the way I carry in hand a rifle with a sling. Helps keep it from rattling/squeaking.

 

[uplander01]

I like the Murray leather 1.25". Slides and adjusts easy. When carrying I reach back with my hand and keep a couple 2-3 fingers under the recoil pad for additional control over the gun. If you are in a situation where you may have a fast burst of activity your hands are probably already on the rifle.

My experience has been PH's don't like the nostalgic should carry of express rifle point forward....I've never found that to be very comfortable anyway and it's definitely not faster to get shouldered up and ready to fire....

 

[Grumpy gumpy]

In regards to a plugged barrel, does anyone put a bit of tape or a small ballon over the end of the barrel, I know a lot of deer hunters do it and it doesn’t affect the rifle or shot, just blows off as it’s not a tight fixture
Gumpy

Oh, and as to the original question, I have just fitted a sling to my 8x68 as it’s not a light rifle and having lugged it around for several hours I found that I was able to carry it ok across my body, but when I went to mount it for a shot I got a cramp in my arm, which was most likely caused by the muscle damage in my shoulder (motor bikes and trees don’t mix) and made it difficult to hold steady, I’m hoping that the sling will help me with that

 

[dgr416]

I have slings on all of mine.I have had all day walks and with a spongy sling it feels half as much .I do like the sling swivel on a barrel band so it does not knock the crap out of your finger when you shoot .I found 338 win mag and up need a barrel band .I had kids whine in Alaska toting a gun 5 miles without a sling even a ruger 1022.

 

[Rare Breed]

I have previously posted pictures of my new (to me) Dakota 76 African in .416 Rigby. I am taking this rifle to SA for my first Cape Buffalo hunt. I have read conflicting guidance on Sling or no Sling. The pro sling guys say that these rifles are heavy (mine is at 11 1/2 pounds) and after long foot stalks lugging this around without a sling I will be that much more tired from carrying it without a sling and the less winded I am when I shoot the better. The no sling guys say that when the rifle goes up on the sticks the sling sometimes gets in the way and you lose valuable fractions of a second. So.. convince me... sling or no sling.

To me it is about what am I hunting? DG no sling especially if hunting in thick jess. If PG I always use a sling for comfort. Just me

 

[Russ16]

My double rifle doesn’t have a sling stud in the stock. It came with studs and has plugs in the spot on the bbls where I can attach the front stud. But I’d need to find someone to drill a hole in the buttock. I’d actually like to do it but don’t have a smith I trust to take a drill to the very nice looking wood.

 

[Sideshow]

I have never left home without the rifle having a sling attached. Slings are for Shooting. Secondary for carry.

This is how I carried my rifle in the field, every step of the way. It is far more comfortable than you might think, and you keep 100% control of your rifle all of the time.

You can give the other arm a rest from time to time as well.........

The rifle is already in position for shooting, and stability...........

Above is what I would call double wrapped, extremely stable with my off arm going over the sling and to the rifle...........

Below is without that.........

Getting on sticks is not a problem, just practice a few times like anything else............

It is hard to see in this photo, but I definitely have that sling wrapped and using it for stability....... dead steady........

Can't see it, using the sling on the off side, and a tree on the right to keep steady...........

And again they are taking photos from the right side, but I am again wrapped in the sling for this series of shots........

And yes, on occasion one can even take a break, use the sling like this...............

If you do not use a sling to shoot, give it a try sometime, and I think you will find your rifle is far more steady, you are able to get on target and stay on target easier, longer, and the sling will be a great aid in controlling your rifle during recoil as well. Basically the sling gives you more control over your area used properly. What I have shown you is what works for me when I was in the field, there may be little tweaks that make it easier for you. I have never suffered any of the other issues that some bring up like getting hung up in brush or what have you, and I have been in the thick stuff many times, and rifle has always had a sling.

Even on very serious Dangerous Game Hunts, I always use a sling................

What’s was the cost of getting your T Rex back into the states? Was it dip and pack or did you get it mounted there? And did you pack your own chainsaw to claim the tail our use the PH’s

 

[steve white]

I have never left home without the rifle having a sling attached. Slings are for Shooting. Secondary for carry.

This is how I carried my rifle in the field, every step of the way. It is far more comfortable than you might think, and you keep 100% control of your rifle all of the time.

You can give the other arm a rest from time to time as well.........

The rifle is already in position for shooting, and stability...........

Above is what I would call double wrapped, extremely stable with my off arm going over the sling and to the rifle...........

Below is without that.........

Getting on sticks is not a problem, just practice a few times like anything else............

It is hard to see in this photo, but I definitely have that sling wrapped and using it for stability....... dead steady........

Can't see it, using the sling on the off side, and a tree on the right to keep steady...........

And again they are taking photos from the right side, but I am again wrapped in the sling for this series of shots........

And yes, on occasion one can even take a break, use the sling like this...............

If you do not use a sling to shoot, give it a try sometime, and I think you will find your rifle is far more steady, you are able to get on target and stay on target easier, longer, and the sling will be a great aid in controlling your rifle during recoil as well. Basically the sling gives you more control over your area used properly. What I have shown you is what works for me when I was in the field, there may be little tweaks that make it easier for you. I have never suffered any of the other issues that some bring up like getting hung up in brush or what have you, and I have been in the thick stuff many times, and rifle has always had a sling.

Even on very serious Dangerous Game Hunts, I always use a sling................

Can you share with us the make and model of your sling with the series of leather thongs running through it?
Had not seen your carry method before,.,very interesting

 

[Red Leg]

In regards to a plugged barrel, does anyone put a bit of tape or a small ballon over the end of the barrel, I know a lot of deer hunters do it and it doesn’t affect the rifle or shot, just blows off as it’s not a tight fixture
Gumpy

Oh, and as to the original question, I have just fitted a sling to my 8x68 as it’s not a light rifle and having lugged it around for several hours I found that I was able to carry it ok across my body, but when I went to mount it for a shot I got a cramp in my arm, which was most likely caused by the muscle damage in my shoulder (motor bikes and trees don’t mix) and made it difficult to hold steady, I’m hoping that the sling will help me with that

Only in snow.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

With Rhodesian carry I think I would be as much if not more concerned about buggering the barrel's bluing or damaging the front sight. A bit of debris lodged temporarily in the muzzle would be the least of my worries. I hunt hard in rough country and my rifle's butt stock has taken the brunt of more than a few tumbles. But I can usually clean up the damage at the end of season with a steam iron, some steel wool, and a bit of Linspeed oil finish.

 

[Red Leg]

To each his own and you are intitled to your opinion as much as any but, I will respectfully disagree with you. Until you try the Rhodesian carry, you cannot imagine how effective it can be. True, you could slip and jam a muzzle into the dirt but, I have never heard of anyone doing that either. Like all carry methods, there are times to adjust. When I am sliding down a steep muddy hill, I can unsling the rifle or swap to the American/Military carry with muzzle up before crossing rough terrain. My main DG rifle has a 26" bbl and the muzzle is never close to the ground. But, I am 6'2" so, there is that. I suppose if one is a little short guy it might require a shorter bbl to work. I also know that the use of suppressors adds length and can be an issue. But, my approach is aimed toward DG hunting with a sling on the rifle where it can be necessary to deploy the rifle in seconds and few hunters are currently hunting dangerous game with suppressors today. Plus when you know you are in contact with DG close by, you can unsling at any time to get ready. We were stalking Cape Buffalo a few years ago in tight thorn thickets one day and were so close we could smell them and hear them breaking branches but could not see for a shot. The rifle came off the should then.

Nothing works 100% of the time. If/when you get tired, you can always switch methods as well. As for the African carry looking unsafe? A muzzle sweep of a fellow hunter is a massive safety failure. You do not have to shoot them or kill them for it to be unsafe. It is almost impossible to negotiate a winding path thru the bush using the African carry without sweeping your muzzle from side to side and on occasion pointing it at the people in front of you. If you are hunting Buffalo, Lion, Ele there will likely be you, the PH, another PH who is getting experience on DG hunting, a tracker or three, a game officer (if certain countries), possibly a cameraman, or an observer or fellow hunter along for the hunt. Four or five of this group are likely to be armed if not more. That is a lot of muzzles to keep track of. No thanks.

When I was taught gun handling, rule #1 was: "Never point a loaded weapon at anyone or anything you do not plan to shoot". Rule #2 was: "All guns are to be treated as loaded". If chambers are verified empty, you might carry African style but you would not be ready to hunt if a surprise opportunity stepped out. It would be an OK method to use at the end of the day when all hunting has ended and you are hiking back to the Bakkie with an unloaded rifle, but if you are hunting truly wild country were you could encounter DG unexpectedly somebody should have a loaded gun. Same would apply to bear country in North America.

I have one hunting rifle that I use without a sling. It is a big bore, 16" bbl lever rifle. It is very short and light and generally, I carry it muzzle down or up in my left hand but generally, I only use it when I am alone. It is for when I am hiking or fishing in bear country or deer hunting in thick cover using a stalking method. It has iron ghost ring sights and while it shoots well, it is only a 100y or less rifle.

Okay, for the heck of it I tried playing with the "Rhodesian carry" method as illustrated on page one of this thread. First, I don't care for my bolt jabbing me in the side, getting caught in clothing, and pushing the gun away from my body. Second, I can find NO reason to believe a rifle slung this way can be deployed any faster than one slung on my shoulder with barrel up. Or is the guy in the photo left-handed shooting a right-handed rifle? Okay, apparently that was the case. So try it from the left shoulder. 1) Grab the gun barrel with left hand and pull it up to dislodge rifle from shoulder. 2) Reach across my body with right hand and catch the stock's pistol grip as rifle is leaving the left shoulder (while left hand is still hanging onto skinny gun barrel). 3) Let go of gun barrel and reattach left hand to fore end. 4) Bring gun across my body with two hands and mount it on my right shoulder. Did I get it right? Now, let's see how I dislodge and mount a normal barrel-up rifle from right shoulder. 1) Right hand is gripping sling strap at front of shoulder. That's how the rifle is carried. 2) The gun is pulled off my shoulder with that hand. No repositioning of the hand is needed. It's already there and ready to go. 3) Left hand comes across my body and grabs the fore end. 4) Right hand then releases the sling and grabs the pistol grip. 5) Gun is mounted to shoot. So the differences are: A) The left hand must leave the sling strap at shoulder and find the barrel to get the Rhodesian method started. B) Both arms must reach across the body to complete the Rhodesian maneuver. C) The left hand has to be repositioned twice: from shoulder sling strap to barrel and then to fore end. D) The rifle must be transferred from left side of body to right side to deploy Rhodesian method. For standard shoulder carry deployment takes place entirely on my right side (I am right-handed). Swapping sides, even for a skinny guy like me, involves some tricky gun aerobatics. For a typically more rotund client it could be even more tricky. I am not convinced Rhodesian carry can deploy quicker. Actually, the opposite. If Newton's Laws are valid, it would seem the extra motions involved with Rhodesian carry = extra energy expended. If the same energy is applied to both methods to get the gun to shoulder and mounted (assuming shooter has fixed amount of energy available to deploy both methods), the Rhodesian method would require more time to deploy. And of course there is the added advantage of potentially sticking the muzzle in the mud. It seems to me this was just another case of Jeff Copper trying to fix something that wasn't broken.

I absolutely believe @JG26Irish_2 has this exactly correct. A fellow by the name of Len Taylor in Zimbabwe would heartily agree.

@Ontario Hunter I read this twice and have no clue what you are trying to do or say.

Right handed, opposite if left handed, the only two carries that immediately set the forearm in position to fire as the rifle is mounted is either port arms, again very tiring very quickly, or the muzzle down left shoulder carry. Again, opposite for left handed use with a properly configured rifle. The bolt is away from the body in such a carry. The left hand palms the rifle forearm during carry. And because the rifle is tight against the left side of the body, it is, to me at least, far and away the easiest and quietest way to move through brush.

Because these are screen shots, This is not the best photography. We are hunting cape buffalo and I am using an R8 with standard profile barrel. I am right handed and six feet tall. Note the muzzle barely reaches past the knee.

Nothing faster and I know of no other carry better to maneuver a rifle in the thick stuff.

 

[michael458]

Can you share with us the make and model of your sling with the series of leather thongs running through it?
Had not seen your carry method before,.,very interesting

Yes Steve, I am more than happy to share these, but there is just one issue, they are not available, sorry. I had these custom made several years ago, I had a Leather "Artist" that was located in California. He was a true Artist, and did the finest leather work I have ever seen, and I kept him damn busy making slings, holsters, belts, cartridge holders and anything else I could think of. I was fortunate, I had my own elephant and buffalo leather from my previous hunts, I always had the leather processed. He even got us some stamps so he could put the B&M Logo (or close) on the leather. Most of the stuff he designed himself and added extras once he knew the basics of what I was after.

The slings he did, some were elephant, some buffalo. He was also a dye expert, he would dye some of my elephant black, and then lace it with gray elephant. Brown or gray slings, he would lace with black buffalo leather....... just incredible....... I had a pile of them made, would give away for gifts and such as that....... Sometimes people that I really didn't know wanted one I would sell them one. I wish I had every one of them back......... LOL

They were adjustable as well, you could unlace the bottom and add length if needed, I needed to do that for my lever guns....

The cartridge slides he made for me were incredible. He lined the inside with pig leather, telling me that it would not stretch and get out of shape.... and it didn't, I used them for many years.

These are 10 round, the shorter ones are 5 round....he gave them a big of a round so they would wrap around you without trouble.

Sometimes he would just make something for me out of the blue, like these canteen wraps.......

He even made some Key fobs and sent......

And then one day he told me........."I am quitting the Leather business, closing shop and doing something else".............I begged, pleaded, told him I would be happy to pay more, but no, he was done, finished and out. That has been over 10 years ago now, and I have not found anyone to work with since......... He quit just when I got some hippo leather in too..... I never got anything made from the hippo...... OH, and some of the holsters... I nearly forgot them... OMG......

Terrible photos, sorry.... I need to do some new ones..........