Sideclips or not on double rifles..do they matter much..?

[Pondoro]

For instance..the early Holland & Holland large bore doubles did not have them..plenty .375Flanged´s, .450/400´s, .500/450´s and .500/465´s out there and .600´s. Other makes as well of course..

Later they were added on Holland´s and others. How important are they..?

Is the lateral stress really so large when low pressure cartridges are used..?

 

[coreydb]

The reason the clips were added was to limit lateral barrel movement when the gun was fired. I honestly don't know if it ultimately proved to be an ineffective good idea, but that was the essence of its purpose.

 

[Green Chile]

I see side clips referenced far more often on shotguns than rifles…in Champlin’s descriptions as an example but also in many standard reference materials.

 

[rookhawk]

For instance..the early Holland & Holland large bore doubles did not have them..plenty .375Flanged´s, .450/400´s, .500/450´s and .500/465´s out there and .600´s. Other makes as well of course..

Later they were added on Holland´s and others. How important are they..?

Is the lateral stress really so large when low pressure cartridges are used..?

I can't quote the source, but I remember reading in one of my books 20 years ago that they did a ton of testing on this topic. Sideclips have ZERO benefit, they are merely a sign of a best gun as a placebo.

The third bite is where the strength comes from, not from preventing the barrels from splitting port and starboard.

 

[Nevada Mike]

They can be dangerous as well. I've seen some side clips that were SHARP.

I do not agree that there is a lot of added strength due to a 'third bite'. The real strength is in the Purdey double under lug. Look at most Best Guns... they have no third bite, it's a relic of 19th century marketing and they are seldom well fitted enough to make any difference.

 

[Sideshow]

Okay did the goggle search but still no answers, so I’ll ask here what are side clips? Could I have a pic with the description please…thanks.
Found a few very some very nice pics on the Westley Richards sight but it just shows the whole rifle, not a description of where it is or what it dose.
Is it what is more commonly known as side plates on a shotgun?
Thanks.
Here’s the link. It’s on the .600 about 17 pictures down on the page.

Westley Richards 'Gun Archive' - The Sidelock Double Rifle / The Explora - Premier Online Field Sports & Gun Journal

So we come to some of the more rarified of Westley Richards weapons manufacture - sidelocks. Whilst the hand detachable lock (droplock) h

www.westleyrichards.com

“ A beautiful .600 with a wonderful elaborate scroll design. This rifle has side clips on the fences. These huge .600 actions were based on a vintage pre-war P.Webley of the same calibre. Often these larger calibres are built to light and on inappropriate action sizes.”

 

[Sideshow]

Are found an image. Not what I was thinking at all.

 

[Sideshow]

Here’s a pic from the website of the 600. Take a look at the engraving.
Don’t make gun bearers like they used to

 

[PCC600]

For instance..the early Holland & Holland large bore doubles did not have them..plenty .375Flanged´s, .450/400´s, .500/450´s and .500/465´s out there and .600´s. Other makes as well of course..

Later they were added on Holland´s and others. How important are they..?

Is the lateral stress really so large when low pressure cartridges are used..?

Not sure I have ever seen an H&H double rifle with side clips but I have one with bolsters on the action . I think they were introduced about the same time as the hand detachable locks . Purdey on the other hand do have side clips and bolsters on double rifles . My Purdey certainly does .Daniel Fraser doubles have side clips but not a bolstered action . WR double rifles have neither bolsters nor side clips - at least not on mine . Rigby Shikari doesn’t have clips or bolsters and I don’t recall either of them on Jeffery DRs .

 

[rookhawk]

They can be dangerous as well. I've seen some side clips that were SHARP.

I do not agree that there is a lot of added strength due to a 'third bite'. The real strength is in the Purdey double under lug. Look at most Best Guns... they have no third bite, it's a relic of 19th century marketing and they are seldom well fitted enough to make any difference.

I absolutely agree with the "sharp" comment on sideclips. I should clarify that when I say "third bite" I conglomerate it with "crossbolt". A crossbolt of the third bite on a double rifle that is made with a monobloc or chopper lump, it does make a difference. That rib is braised (not soldered) through to the action. It helps give rigidity to the action.

 

[Sideshow]

Cheers guys learned a load. Thanks for this absolutely fascinating for me!

 

[Pondoro]

I have a WW1 era .475 double made by John Wilkes for Midland Gun Co. It has both a dolls head extention and sideclips.. Not sure how common that was..

 

[rookhawk]

I have a WW1 era .475 double made by John Wilkes for Midland Gun Co. It has both a dolls head extention and sideclips.. Not sure how common that was..

Not common or uncommon. The dolls head is a mark of quality with little benefit…. But really hard to fit. Side clips are really hard to make. It sounds like a lovely gun. Post a pic please.

 

[Pondoro]

After a restock..it cracked in the wrist after 100+ years..

 

[Pondoro]

Cal Pappas .600 Wilkes was also made with both dolls head and sideclips, btw..

 

[Hunter-Habib]

Hi, @Pondoro

It’s very much a matter of individual gun maker’s philosophy. I believe that it was James Purdey & Sons who first pioneered them in 1872, in order to reinforce the breech against any lateral movement generated by cartridge pressures.

Many gun makers gradually adapted them over the years, while others insist that the rifle’s three bites are ample reinforcement and that side clips are redundant.

Belgium’s Liege School Of Gun Making in 1996 came to the conclusion that side clips aren’t strictly necessary on a well made double rifle.

My 1912 built Auguste Schuler clamshell ejector action .600 Nitro Express (made for R.B Rodda & Co.) used to have a really impressive pair of side clips. As well as a huge Greener style cross bolt. Good old fashioned German engineering at it’s finest. If it wasn’t for the undersized bore diameter, I never would have let that one go.

 

[MacJenkins]

Cal Pappas .600 Wilkes was also made with both dolls head and sideclips, btw..

Just made a 120 Rounds for that gun last month. A friend owns it and just got back from hutning Buff in Tanzania with it.

 

[MacJenkins]

Hi, @Pondoro

It’s very much a matter of individual gun maker’s philosophy. I believe that it was James Purdey & Sons who first pioneered them in 1872, in order to reinforce the breech against any lateral movement generated by cartridge pressures.

Many gun makers gradually adapted them over the years, while others insist that the rifle’s three bites are ample reinforcement and that side clips are redundant.

Belgium’s Liege School Of Gun Making in 1996 came to the conclusion that side clips aren’t strictly necessary on a well made double rifle.

My 1912 built Auguste Schuler clamshell ejector action .600 Nitro Express (made for R.B Rodda & Co.) used to have a really impressive pair of side clips. As well as a huge Greener style cross bolt. Good old fashioned German engineering at it’s finest. If it wasn’t for the undersized bore diameter, I never would have let that one go.
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Very cool! How small was the bore?

 

[PCC600]

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After a restock..it cracked in the wrist after 100+ years..

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What a pity . That would really piss me off .

 

[Pondoro]

Hi, @Pondoro

It’s very much a matter of individual gun maker’s philosophy. I believe that it was James Purdey & Sons who first pioneered them in 1872, in order to reinforce the breech against any lateral movement generated by cartridge pressures.

Many gun makers gradually adapted them over the years, while others insist that the rifle’s three bites are ample reinforcement and that side clips are redundant.

Belgium’s Liege School Of Gun Making in 1996 came to the conclusion that side clips aren’t strictly necessary on a well made double rifle.

My 1912 built Auguste Schuler clamshell ejector action .600 Nitro Express (made for R.B Rodda & Co.) used to have a really impressive pair of side clips. As well as a huge Greener style cross bolt. Good old fashioned German engineering at it’s finest. If it wasn’t for the undersized bore diameter, I never would have let that one go.
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These actions is called muschelversluss by the germans...I have seen a few..