Sako 85 Or CZ

i have bought 2 rifles over the years that would not shoot. one was a ruger, and the stock split as well, so after being told by the agent that they would do nothing about it, sold it off as spare parts.
the other was a sako 30/06.
the agent told me that the 30/06 was not noted for accuracy and refused to help in any way.
both rifles could not be relied upon to hit a foolscap page at 100 yds.
the sako was rebarreled with a hart match stainless barrel and shot like you would not believe.
it won a number of ssheutzen matches up against schultz and larson and rem 40x target rifles.
so much for 30/06 not being accurate.!!!!!
ruger seem to have improved over the years.
i would never buy another sako, believing them to be overpriced for what they are, and that part of what you pay for is the name.
i also understand that their extractor cam system has all but gone by the board, and that their recoil lugs are bolt on cheap and nasty.
then someone might know whether they are now 3 lug bolts.
this further minimizes extraction camming ability.
if they are 3 lug, far better just go buy a tikka for less money.
bruce.
 
My Finnbear from 60 years ago disagrees. Out f their custom shop it has the most unique bird's eye maple stock with gold, silver and ivory that I ever saw. Engraving with gold and silver on metal.

264, shoots great and my youngest son laid claim to it already so I wouldnt sell it.

Got it from an Italian immigrant sailor for a $150 in the late 60s.

I never killed anything with it and fired it 3 times. It looks like something a king would use. It is too beautiful to possibly damage trudging through the bush.
 
so much for 30/06 not being accurate.!!!!!

I think that this claim of 30-06 not being accurate, originates from long range matches in seventies, where 30-06 for some reasons could not beat 308 win.
But, this is for looong raaaange matches. Extreme application.

The difference in accuracy (or lack of accuracy) on hunting distances, I was not able to determine.
Hunting aplication, today, moa or sub-moa rifles in 30-06 are nothing unsusal. Average user cannot see the difference when compared with other ordinary calibers.

then someone might know whether they are now 3 lug bolts.

sako 85 - 3 lug bolt, (advertised as) controlled feed action
sako a7 - 3 lug bolt, push feed action
tikka t3 - 2 lug bolt, push feed action.

Which sako model did you have?
 
finnbear 2 lug.
another thing happened to it as well.
it refused to cock and it transpired that the trigger had seperated from the receiver.
replacement with a m70win solved the problem.
bruce.
bruce.
 
Well...just few comments from my own personal experiences. I had a new Sako Kodiak. Over $2100 CDN. Beautiful rifle, fit and finish, the usual Sako quality, i.e. impeccable. The rifle would not feed blunt nose bullets, ejected cases or cartridges would end up back in the receiver when mounted with scope, the CRF was anything but that and the stock kicked me like a mule. Traded it on a CZ 550 and a VZ24. Never looked back. All my ZKKs and CZs were smooth from the get-go, with no feeding or ejection issues, some did get smoother yet with time but my current 9.3x62 CZ 550 and many before it have been butter-smooth from the factory.

The 3 position safety is really not needed on a Mauser-style action. To empty the magazine safely and quickly, just push and pull the bolt back and forth, let the claw do the work. No need to close the bolt, so quite safe IMHO. Except when you drop the cartridge in the chamber and then want to use the bolt to retrieve it. In that case closing the bolt may be easier than pushing forward to get the extractor over the rim. But that too depends on the rifle. The original Mauser has the middle position to facilitate taking out the firing pin assembly more than to be able to unload rifle safely, I think. So there the 3 positions are great. And yes, firing pin blocking would be great (one more reason I like original Mauser over even the CZs), though should the pin break anywhere but forward of the spring, even those rifles will fire. Not sure if that ever happened anywhere, though.

As to safety locking the bolt...I like that feature. I have a Brno 21H where that bolt opens way too easily when on safe (so much so, that when carried barrel up, the bolt can open, slide down and eject the round that was loaded in the chamber. Even when that does not happen, it's a mental exercise to always remember to close the bolt fully when getting ready to shoot. One drawback to an otherwise stellar rifle.
 
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I have been searching around for info and trying to find some info on the Sako 85 and the CZ.
The CZ has been regarded as one of the trusted rifles for Africa. And I have been itching for a 375 CZ.
Then I started exploring the Sako 85. I have found some info. But know i stuck between the two.
If im not mistaken the Sako 85 features a Control Feed Action?
I have been looking at the Brown Bear 375. But i have found very little info on it. Has someone had some expierence hunting with it? Is it worth spending the extra few dollars?
The CZ I have hunted with before. And know it quite a bit having used the CZ 458 lott also.
Any advice on the Sako 85 375 h&h Brown Bear? Its it worth it?

Sako is not a true control feed operation.
I have 4 Sakos and they are really great.
Only thing Eva large caliber is that in ejecting an empty case, it may hit the low mounted scope and fall into the action causing a jam.
So you need to be careful.
Sako has a very slick bolt and to me they are simply magnificent.
 
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A few thoughts on CZ and CRF...

Roughness / Smoothness of the CZ / ZKK

If you are observant of contact points on the CZ/ZKK (these are iterations of the same action coming from the same plant, before and after the fall of communism), and if you are willing to spend two hours with the appropriate fine grit sand paper and valve grinding compound, you will be positively amazed at how slick a standard CZ 550 will become for a grand expenditure of about a few pennies (excluding your time).

Check specifically:

1) how the central edge of the magazine follower plate binds inside the grove for the ejector blade in the under side of the bolt (solved by rounding the central edge of the follower);

2) how the burrs of the ejector blade grind inside the ejector grove of the bolt (solved by deburring/polishing the ejector blade);

3) how the burrs of the lower rear bridge machining grind against the bolt (solved by deburring/polishing the machining of the lower rear bridge);

4) how the forward edge of the extractor collar binds inside the upper rear bridge (solved by rounding the edges of the extractor collar and polishing the inside of the rear bridge);

5) how the machining burrs on the inside and lower faces of the feeding lips grind against the feeding cartridges (solved by polishing carefully - but NOT REMOVING MATERIAL from - the feeding lips).

6) coat liberally the bolt with valve grinding compound and cycle the bolt one thousand times while watching TV.

Again, you will be amazed at the results...

Let us keep in mind that Rigby themselves used ZKK/CZ actions for years for their own rifles when Mauser stopped the production of true magnum-length actions. This is not faint praise for the action.

CZ safety

Regrettably, the ZKK/CZ does not offer a true safety, i.e. a safety that blocks the firing pin (either with 2 positions as on the Weatherby Mark V, or 3 positions as on the Winchester 70 and derivatives - sideways, or as on the original Mauser - "flag safety"). This is its only true shortcoming of the CZ, and where a Win 70 Classic has a true advantage over it. Instead, they offer a sear blocking safety WHICH CANNOT PREVENT THE PIN FROM FIRING THE GUN SHOULD THE SEAR SLIP for whatever reason (e.g. the gun falling, or a defective trigger "tuning").

Aftermarket firing-pin blocking safeties are widely available for the CZ (Lapour, Gentry, American Hunting Rifles, etc.) and the machining to install one is mostly limited to drilling one small hole in the bolt handle with a carbide bit and fine-tuning the engagement of the camming surfaces, which is a little tricky.

Installing a firing-pin blocking safety is probably the one "mandatory" upgrade someone needs to make on a CZ in addition to an action job.

CRF

Yes that monster extractor is reassuring, but this is NOT the primary advantage of a CRF.

The primary advantage is that a CRF prevents double feed, or in other words, it avoids unwittingly loading the chamber. A push feed bolt will chamber a cartridge and NOT EXTRACT THIS CARTRIDGE IF THE BOLT IS NOT CLOSED, i.e. if the extractor is not snapped over the rim when closing the bolt. The consequence is that one can actually load the chamber without turning/closing the bolt; pull the bolt back; see no cartridge (if there is no other round in the magazine); and close the bolt on a loaded chamber while believing the rifle is empty.

The importance of this was illustrated 3 years ago in the Eastern Cape when one person inadvertently loaded a gun by pushing into the chamber the one cartridge that was in the magazine; forgot about it in the flow of the discussion; and handed the rifle, bolt open, to someone else who, seeing no cartridge in the magazine, closed the bolt on the loaded chamber and put the rifle on the back seat of the truck. The next person who grabbed the gun from the back seat depressed the trigger while doing so, and the gun fired. One woman died. I personally know the people involved, this is a true story.

A CRF bolt would have been carrying that cartridge back out of the chamber even if the bolt had not been closed during gun manipulation. THAT is the primary benefit of a CRF on a hunting gun.

Of course there were a long list of gun safety violations along the way, but CRF would likely have prevented them from resulting in a death. I personally ALWAYS cycle the bolt and dry fire my rifle in a safe direction 3 times before putting it back in the case. In my military days, during the 3 year officer training at the Special Military Academy the violating the '3-safety-manipulations-and-dry-firing-in-a-safe-direction' rule was worth walking back from the firing range to the barracks, and this was a long 3 hour walk. We learned quickly and for life ;-)
This is a very informative response. I am not technical on guns at all. I own various guns build on a CZ 550 action. I frequently hunt DG. I never knew the safety is not reliable. Whilst hunting in DG territory, you always have one up the spout, safety engaged. I have been hunting DG for 20 years, never had any issues. I have the following guns on CZ 550 or Brno 602 actions: .375 H&H, .416 Rigby, .404 Jeffrey, .458 WM and .505 Gibbs. Had been in a tight spot or 2 over the years, no issues what so ever. Now I'm not sure if I need to change the safeties on my CZ/Brno rifles or not
 
I prefer the CZ 550 action. It it so solid, locks up like a bank vault. With minor but important enhancements done by Wayne Jacobson at AHR (3 pos Mod 70 type safety, match grade single stage trigger) it feels more like a custom rifle that one bought off of the shelf. Maybe a tad too heavy for a 375 H&H, but comes into it's own when you step up to the 416s, the 458s and the 500s
 
CZ550 ( or if you can get your hands on one, the BRNO ZKK602 which is the predecessor to the CZ550). Unfortunately, both are now discontinued.
 
My money would be on the Sako as it more resembles a modern custom benchrest action. Fully supported case head(model 75) and 3 lug lock-up. I'm sure either have the potential to be deadly accurate with a good barrel. IMO the barrel is by far the most important component to accuracy.
 
This is a very informative response. I am not technical on guns at all. I own various guns build on a CZ 550 action. I frequently hunt DG. I never knew the safety is not reliable. Whilst hunting in DG territory, you always have one up the spout, safety engaged. I have been hunting DG for 20 years, never had any issues. I have the following guns on CZ 550 or Brno 602 actions: .375 H&H, .416 Rigby, .404 Jeffrey, .458 WM and .505 Gibbs. Had been in a tight spot or 2 over the years, no issues what so ever. Now I'm not sure if I need to change the safeties on my CZ/Brno rifles or not

Agree been using Brno ZKK actioned rifles all my life and currently own 5 on these actions never ever had an issue with the safety.....the best safety is between the users ears....
 
My money would be on the Sako as it more resembles a modern custom benchrest action. Fully supported case head(model 75) and 3 lug lock-up. I'm sure either have the potential to be deadly accurate with a good barrel. IMO the barrel is by far the most important component to accuracy.

That is the same argument Remington used when their 700 series came out and it's a good one. Still seems like the DG rifles of choice are CRF.
 

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