Rifle/ammo failure on Elephant

[sureshot375]

I sent a link to this video to a friend, but he couldn't watch it. Access to the video is currently limited. This is probably the right thing to do.

Looks like it’s been made private.

I’m assuming some negative stuff got back to the client or the publisher of the video.

 

[JHT]

I would personally like to thank Safari Classics for this brave decision and congratulate the hunter and PH on such a remarkable bull.

 

[375Fox]

When people who don't know how to drive get behind the wheel and cause accidents, it wins money on America's Funniest Videos. There is nothing to be learned from this shitshow. Elephant suffered horribly and unnecessarily. I know I never want to hunt with either of those guys. You'd think they would have edited out the client's fumble-fest reloading his double rifle ... multiple times. I've shot one round out of a double rifle once in my life and I could have handled it better than that. Doubt he would have done any better with a bolt rifle. I honestly don't think he knew anything about guns or hunting. But boy he sure was dressed for the part.

I skipped to minute 35. Where were they hunting? Looked like the back side of the moon. Elephants acted like they just escaped from the San Diego Zoo. Overall it was a horrible video. What I saw of it anyway. One of the worst I've seen. I hope the safari operator reads this.

Anyone who can afford a fancy Heym double rifle can afford to lose a few pieces of brass ... or a whole box.

Anyway, trackers usually pick up my brass for me. They can spot a 30-06 case at thirty yards in an acacia thicket.

Very bad shooting and VERY bad taste publishing the video. Gad, I would not want my friends and family seeing me screw up like that. And the poor elephant. Tsk tsk. Nothing to be proud of there. But I honestly think the hunter knows so little about hunting that he didn't realize how bad he looked. I guess the PH is stuck in the middle. Client pays the big bucks for the video production. Is PH going to tell his client publishing this disaster is not smart? That would mean telling him it was a disaster. Bye-bye big tip! During my lifetime afield I've had several offers to get involved in guiding hunters. I'm smart enough to know that line of work is not for me. My skin isn't thick enough.

You really don’t miss an opportunity to prove yourself a fool with some of your comments. The client’s gun handling skills are very unfortunate. If you had taken time to watch full video or think before you write you’d realize it looks like a lunar landscape due to massive overpopulation of elephants in Botswana and western Zimbabwe. There is a need for culling that will unfortunately never get approved today. That’s why they sadly find dead calves in water and emaciated cows and not a major tree to be seen. The video was also not published by the client or the outfitter. It was published by the film company as an attempt at advertising. There is one price for private videos and a lower rate for videos allowed to be made public.

I also think you are the only individual on this forum that believes you were ever offered guiding positions. The fact you get a different PH every time you return to the same outfitter says something about you as a client.

 

[Quest#1]

 

[sgt_zim]

I still recall some of the lessons Coach Randow imparted to us in high school basketball practice way back in the 1980s: "Practice doesn't make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect."

If you practice bad habits, you're going to express those habits in the game.

To that end, I see even an awful lot of PHs with magazine rifles who drop their rifle off their shoulder to work the bolt and reload. I can't be the only guy in the universe who reloads with his rifle still shouldered. Perhaps I am overly anal about such things, but further wisdom from Coach Randow: take care of the little things, and the big things will take care of themselves. It's a terrible thing to lose the war because of one poorly-shod horse.

 

[Altitude sickness]

The one I like and use.
“ there are no advanced tactics. Only the fundamentals mastered”

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I still recall some of the lessons Coach Randow imparted to us in high school basketball practice way back in the 1980s: "Practice doesn't make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect."

If you practice bad habits, you're going to express those habits in the game.

To that end, I see even an awful lot of PHs with magazine rifles who drop their rifle off their shoulder to work the bolt and reload. I can't be the only guy in the universe who reloads with his rifle still shouldered. Perhaps I am overly anal about such things, but further wisdom from Coach Randow: take care of the little things, and the big things will take care of themselves. It's a terrible thing to lose the war because of one poorly-shod horse.

I always work the bolt off my shoulder and do it well enough to take this gemsbuck in two rapid fire shots through the heart incoming at very close range (>25 yards).

I shoot skeet or clays low gun and often come off the gun and remount before shooting the second target of true pair. I practice this way because 1) it makes me shoot instinctively rather than aiming the shotgun; 2) it provides me with an unobstructed view of moving target; 3) it keeps me from "overthinking" the shot; 4) I have better control of the rifle during reloading. The objective when shooting moving targets is to mount and shoot all in one fluid motion. No overthinking or trying to aim. Let automatic hand to eye reflexes take over. Last Friday I shot two rounds of clays with a new guy. He was lucky if he broke one target at each station. But he was having a good time so I just rolled with it. The last targets on second to last station for the night was an overhead true pair that fell fast into the trees. He acquired late but still broke both clays. Hmmm. Next station is probably the most difficult with rabbits and flyers. I told him to shoot it low gun. He drops the gun off his cheek. "No, I said low gun. Get it down to your gut." Really? "Yep. Hey, whatta ya got to lose? Give it a try." He broke all but one of eight on that station! Snap shooting the true pair on previous station told me high gun on the shoulder gave him too much time to screw up. Also told me he really could shoot. He asked me why I didn't say something earlier. It's a ticklish thing dishing out advice unless asked.

Anyway, you were apparently coached to reload on your shoulder and apparently it works for you. Two guys who were shooting clays with us pull their targets high gun and shoot much better than me (but they're half my age and not blind in one eye ). They've been doing it that way since teenagers. However, I can almost guarantee in the field chasing uplands their shooting would not come close to keeping up with mine (but not much chance of that as both are smokers and overweight = they would never keep up with me walking). Shooting moving clays high gun is totally different than walking behind dogs and jump shooting live birds.

For followup on incoming dangerous game, the rifle is coming off the sticks anyway. Are you going to wait till it's back on the shoulder to reload? Why? Practicing reloading and then remounting the gun to acquire and fire makes a lot more sense to me.

 

[Huvius]

Now that the video is down I think it's worth discussing the episode without the spectacle of it all...

First, the terrain is terrible. Looked to be nigh impossible to get a clean line of fire.

Second, the gun. Aren't Heym 89s ejectors? Why wasn't it ejecting? I know they can be ordered as extractor only but I wouldn't think anyone today would order one.
A question to those here whom own one, can the rifle be opened enough to extract the cases but not cocking the action? That sort of looked like it could have been what happened here.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Now that the video is down I think it's worth discussing the episode without the spectacle of it all...

First, the terrain is terrible. Looked to be nigh impossible to get a clean line of fire.

Second, the gun. Aren't Heym 89s ejectors? Why wasn't it ejecting? I know they can be ordered as extractor only but I wouldn't think anyone today would order one.
A question to those here whom own one, can the rifle be opened enough to extract the cases but not cocking the action? That sort of looked like it could have been what happened here.

I think you may be onto it. I have seen guys at skeet breaking open their O/U just enough to pull out the top barrel hull when shooting single shot and the gun doesn't cock for next round. Again, really dumb for him to be fretting about flying brass when chasing after wounded elephant.

I will say watching that video and the other one a while back of PH trying to reload while dodging a buffalo's horns has convinced me I'll never hunt with a double rifle.

 

[Wildwillalaska]

Late to this party gents, and link didn’t work when I saw the thread yesterday and moved on, but reading through tonight, the reference to the misfires and the barren trees…had to ask if this was the video with a somewhat mature looking client, taller, (think safari hat) who did not appear overly steady as he tried to keep up with the PH? Watched a video that came up in my random YouTube que like Friday I think. Gent got a first shot as a some sort of shoulder shot, late in the day, then what seemed like lots of chaotic follow-up, couple misfires and elephant going down close to last light. Huge bodied (to my absolute lay eyes) bull with heavy ivories, both sides seemingly broken off (not smooth worn down).

Is that the video folks are referencing…hate to assume but hard not to here.

If in fact the same, what was the general consensus on the misfires? That is what puzzled me in watching. Certainly could armchair critique things, but I’ve not had the chance to hunt elephant and have very, very little experience with a double. BUT…that is what had me wanting to go back and watch what portion the video showed of his reloading and miss-firing. I maybe unfairly assumed at first view that he had only had the chance to load one round then pulled the wrong trigger. As someone who is giving serious thought to dipping a toe into the double pool, it’s still tickling my brain. As was the Dr. Seuss looking landscape. Really wanted to find the video again to show the misses who isn’t the greatest fan of my intent on hunting elephant in the near future. It was truly insane just how completely barren and broke up that once-forest really was.

If anyone comes across any video or photos of that landscape or similar, please share (links to PM are wonderful)

Cheers,
W

 

[mrpoindexter]

That is indeed the video we have been discussing. As somebody whose only "doubles" are U/U shotguns, I will leave it to experts to interpret the comments for a consensus.

We can educate people about protecting the environment, but we cannot educate wildlife about protecting their own environment or other species. It is almost as if we would have to do that for them.

 

[MacJenkins]

Now that the video is down I think it's worth discussing the episode without the spectacle of it all...

First, the terrain is terrible. Looked to be nigh impossible to get a clean line of fire.

Second, the gun. Aren't Heym 89s ejectors? Why wasn't it ejecting? I know they can be ordered as extractor only but I wouldn't think anyone today would order one.
A question to those here whom own one, can the rifle be opened enough to extract the cases but not cocking the action? That sort of looked like it could have been what happened here.

I've had 7 Heyms and still have 3. One being a 89B. I've never tried opening one to pull the brass before it ejected. I would think it would be tough to time that. I always let my brass fly everytime. Really bad habit to get in catching or pocketing brass IMO.

And yes 89B are standard with ejectors.

 

[ACE (in CT)]

That was all operator error.

The hunter would have been better off with a reliable bolt gun that he could handle.

He kept lowering his rifle and reloading rather than shooting the second barrel.

I don’t believe there were any actual misfires. He was loading the left barrel and pulling the front trigger.

At one point it looked like he started to open the gun but then remounted and tried to shoot with the lever half engaged.

His reloads were obviously a problem. I think he may have dumped a number of live rounds on the ground.

When he did finally get a shot off at the side brain it looked like he hit about a foot forward.

I think his shoulder shots were a bit forward too.

 

[Wildwillalaska]

This is what I keep thinking: “The hunter would have been better off with a reliable bolt gun that he could handle” when I think of going afield with a double. I absolutely think we should talk about those times when everything goes wrong. Reality it that’s how we learn, by screwing up sometimes or better watching a buddy screw up and helping fix it. And the more embarrassing, inconvenient or downright painful, the better the lesson stuck in the forefront of our memories. I won’t do that again.

If you hunt enough, or any other passion for that matter, chances are you e totally f’d something at some point and maybe beyond repair. Hopefully fixable enough wheee no one was seriously injured and game wasn’t lost…but that too happens.

 

[Wildwillalaska]

The whole “The hunter would have been better off with a reliable bolt gun that he could handle” keeps ringing true in my mind. I want to drink the cool-kid-aid and join the double rifle club, but also know I have a lot of learning ahead of me. A double rifle is foreign and certainly not smooth and slick with its operation.

I’ve run a boot gun since my old man decided a kick should have the snot kicked out of him at 9yo and got me a strait grained Remington ADL with hard butt plate in 30-06. Ran them ever since. I love bolt guns and am overly comfortable with them, which is what had me delaying a double for so long. I can rapidly reload any of my bolt guns under stress in the pitch black night, even eyes closed. Unfortunately, I’ve had first hand experience in this twice with brown bears northeast of Kotz trying to run off with moose quarters middle of the night in camp. The standard MO is to empty your gun into it quickly, gather yourself, reload, repeat. I can see a double having those two shots as faster, but with a bolt gun I can make 3-4 shots before reloading.

End of the day, I want to hang with the cool kids and the double club…and don’t want any unnecessary unnevexxiry

 

[Est.1970]

Once it’s on the internet it’s on the internet so you’ll not get that wish.

This reminds me of the same issue with the K2 summit industry. Just because you’re slick enough to afford something doesn’t mean you should partake.

We also have to think of the guides in both industries that help to further these situations.

 

[Russ16]

The whole “The hunter would have been better off with a reliable bolt gun that he could handle” keeps ringing true in my mind. I want to drink the cool-kid-aid and join the double rifle club, but also know I have a lot of learning ahead of me. A double rifle is foreign and certainly not smooth and slick with its operation.

I’ve run a boot gun since my old man decided a kick should have the snot kicked out of him at 9yo and got me a strait grained Remington ADL with hard butt plate in 30-06. Ran them ever since. I love bolt guns and am overly comfortable with them, which is what had me delaying a double for so long. I can rapidly reload any of my bolt guns under stress in the pitch black night, even eyes closed. Unfortunately, I’ve had first hand experience in this twice with brown bears northeast of Kotz trying to run off with moose quarters middle of the night in camp. The standard MO is to empty your gun into it quickly, gather yourself, reload, repeat. I can see a double having those two shots as faster, but with a bolt gun I can make 3-4 shots before reloading.

End of the day, I want to hang with the cool kids and the double club…and don’t want any unnecessary unnevexxiry

Funny this is part of why I want a double. I’ve alway shot a bolt rifle and handle one decently.

But I’ve shot thousands of rounds through a SxS shotgun including in some pretty rapid high volume situations. They feel like a part of my body. When I pick up a double rifle it feels very much the same and I’m confident that with a little practice I would adapt to one.

 

[Sika98k]

When most of us are in peak physical shape, good eyes and stamina we don’t have the money, when we have the money we don’t have the eyesight or stamina to track Buffalo or elephant all day. Realities of growing old and maturing as hunters.

Sadly more than a grain of truth in this ☝

 

[Hunt anything]

Sadly more than a grain of truth in this ☝

Now that I’m older, I have the time and maybe the money but the eyes and back not so much. When I was young I had eyes of an Eagle the stamina of an eland and the strength of a bull but no time or money.