Religions, Evolution and related Sciences

[Rubberhead]

I don't know how old the Earth is and none of y'all do either. I do believe God is the God of time too and that God himself is timeless. In other words, those photons from the Andromeda Galaxy could have traveled that distance at a rate that we would now say exceeded the speed of light. Or, God could have set that stream of photons in place during the instant when he created the Universe. Like I said, I don't know and neither do any of you...

 

[mark-hunter]

Do you know any aliens from outter space? What are their names. In all seriousness, I don’t have an explanation for Bigfoot or aliens. I have never run across them.
Divine individuals is what the Bible mentions but not sure if that could be associated with aliens or not.
Funny thing is, I have never seen an alien in a museum. So at this point in my life I don’t think they are real nor ever existed but it’s possible according to interpretation in the Bible.

I have several times pointed out here, that there is no proof of extraterrestiral life.
However, this is growing in public interest.
I am fine, if you have no theory on that.
I am also fine if you do not accept modern scientific theories.

But, I have provided evidence of UFO / UAP presence from declassified govt files. The link is in my earlier posts today.
So, what say you about that? Something is out there, so what it is?

 

[RLD]

Dinosaurs all died off in the flood about 6-7000 years ago or so.
The flood created the mountains, that’s why you find fossils on mountains such as in Wyoming. Grand Canyon for instance created by massive rush of water.
all this scientific data on how old a sample of something is, hogwash and it’s basis of aging is flawed. Earth is roundish but more rounded or fatter in the middle and flatter at its poles.
Four corners are really north, south,east, west.

So particles don't decay at steady rates? Trees don't add one ring a year? Sediment does not accumulate at a steady rate under known conditions? Is that what you mean by "hogwash"?

Are you aware that the fossil record most definately does not show all the dinosaurs dying off at once?

Are you aware the mountains are not created by floods, rather other forces? Only a profound misunderstanding of fluid dynamics would lead one to conclude that mountains were created by floods.

 

[RLD]

I don't know how old the Earth is and none of y'all do either. I do believe God is the God of time too and that God himself is timeless. In other words, those photons from the Andromeda Galaxy could have traveled that distance at a rate that we would now say exceeded the speed of light. Or, God could have set that stream of photons in place during the instant when he created the Universe. Like I said, I don't know and neither do any of you...

I can't give you a precise age of the earth, but I can examine the evidence and apply one of God's great gifts (the power of reason) to our knowledge of the mechanics of the universe and come to a pretty good estimate.

Faith in the bible does not necessitate the ignoring of the evidence around us or what the laws of nature (set by God) are teaching us.

You do believe in ballistics I am assuming?

 

[Red Leg]

Red leg you are your own worst enemy , so light years prove the age of the earth? AND GOD SAID,' LET THERE BE LIGHT" and there was! Proof of our omniscient ,almighty ,everlasting ,the I AM ,Yahweh. Everything God does is Perfection, " and he saw it was good" , the perfect garden of Eden , Without faith it is impossible to please God . about everything That the Christ did on earth to show he was who he said he was ,was beyond natural science. I.E. Walking on water, commanding the wind and waves to obey him, healing a blind man, healing a sick daughter of the Roman centurion, raising a dead man, "Lazaras" Healing a leper, turning water into wine,{ instantly by the way not over months], Cursing a fig tree and it died, replacing a Romans ear that Peter cut off, And the list goes on , way more than was recorded. Can science explain these things, no because you cant explain YAHWEH, he is "OMNISCIENT " right! Was Christ both man and GOD, yep, was he creator, yep. did he do these things by his almighty power ,yep, so did he RAISE From THE DEAD by his almighty ,miraculous power, yep. can science show or explain that fact? Il wait on that.
Christ said you must have faith as a little child to enter the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 18-3,That maybe a problem for some, but not if you accept him, thats the only way you will. enter.
You keep referring to Anglican James Ussher. That sir, isnt my source , its Christ saying "in the beginning" several times, and he should know , he was there.
So then you want to believe in a billion year old creation , do so, I can recommend a preacher who believes that way, and teaches fantastic things. DR. LARRY OLLISON.
I need a fantastic Omniscient God that does the impossible , like raising the dead , and forgiving the wages of sin, instantaneously . If that makes me an "anti- Evangelist "= [ rookhawk] Who then has the problem ? Me or the unbelievers. Christ has promised a new heaven and a new earth for believers. Revelation 21-1-4. According to you he must have started working on it a long ,long time ago, to have it ready for its debut.
IF you are correct and I am WRONG, well so what, I know the man who has the keys to death and hades Revelation 1-18 , and thats what really counts. I would hope you agree. Can you prove by science the miracles he did? No! but alot of people saw and said if happened, and then there are alot who say it never did, count me on the side of the believing. If you want to believe in a billion year old earth, I dont judge you for that, as far as possible I desire to be at peace with all men., the apostle Paul said"I will destroy the wisdom of the wise," and in JOB, 38 have you commanded the morning since your days began and caused the dawn to know its place. GOD ask Job " have you understood the expanse of the earth, -where is the way to the dwelling of light"? so if Job had carbon 14 dating and knowledge of the speed of light, he could have said , sure God let me explain a few things to ya? No, no way. Or yea just let me ask GROK.
Scripture says Romans 1-20. ," since the creation of the world,, his invisible attributes ,eternal power, Devine nature have been clearly seen, being understood through what he has made. NAS. we understand this ! It was created by power ,his power! not a happenstance chance of 1 in a billion occurrence . that everything happened to come togather in just such an evolving luck of the draw way that earth got oxygen and water and light and seasons and dirt and gravity, snow ,rain tides oceans, and the moon did not.

With all the caps and exclamation points you read like you are raving, not discussing a subject about which we are largely in agreement. I would suggest again reading what I actually wrote.

I fully agree in the all powerful and all knowing nature of God. However, the latter of those attributes is just as important as the first or he would not be God. I absolutely agree with you that the universe is his creation - the product of his intelligent design.

But, and it is an important distinction, it is why I have no problem understanding that his design of the universe entailed billions of years and is still going on. God gave mankind the means to understand the breath and majesty of such a creation. Because he is all knowing, omniscient, he knows we would grow in our understanding of that creation - we are still growing in that understanding. That knowledge in turn frees believers from the literal bonds of cultural lore to a belief grounded in both faith and knowledge.

I would argue that a faith based solely on literal acceptance of such easily disproven cultural beliefs such as a young age of the earth is a prescription for denominational suicide as younger better educated members move away from the church. That can only occur because a portion of the community of belief is offering them a false choice between believing an impossibility or denial of faith. That is a choice created by man, not by God. Our all powerful and all knowing creator expects us to grow in our understanding of his creation, not lock ourselves away in the ignorance of the 17th century.

And yes, the 6,000 year old age of the earth was first calculated by an Irish Anglican Archbishop named James Ussher. Because of his reputation, his chronology was inserted into the King James version of the bible in 1701 by Anglican Bishop William Lloyd. As a result, for more than two-centuries whenever an everyday reader opened his bible they saw printed next to Genesis 1:1 "4004 BC." Lay readers came to accept that notation as literally as the rest of the Genesis story.

I am simply suggesting that in the 21st century it is no challenge to our belief to move beyond the mankind imposed chains of the 17th.

 

[3chunter]

So particles don't decay at steady rates? Trees don't add one ring a year? Sediment does not accumulate at a steady rate under known conditions? Is that what you mean by "hogwash"?

Are you aware that the fossil record most definately does not show all the dinosaurs dying off at once?

Are you aware the mountains are not created by floods, rather other forces? Only a profound misunderstanding of fluid dynamics would lead one to conclude that mountains were created by floods.

No one can possibly comprehend the fluid dynamics that happen during the flood.
Except GOD and the witnesses that were on the ark.
Quick instant water pressure does all kinds of crazy things. Throw in other factors and then you understand why layers of sediment can occur and form in very quick time under the right conditions. The layers scientist think are from millions of years ago could have and did occur at a very quick rate and time period. The flood was not a normal condition, thus the scientist explanations and what not are merely guesses based of assumptions stemming from belief and based on other scientific assumptions that earth is millions of years old. Which it isn’t.

 

[Rubberhead]

I can't give you a precise age of the earth, but I can examine the evidence and apply one of God's great gifts (the power of reason) to our knowledge of the mechanics of the universe and come to a pretty good estimate.

Faith in the bible does not necessitate the ignoring of the evidence around us or what the laws of nature (set by God) are teaching us.

You do believe in ballistics I am assuming?

Do you believe that God can supernaturally touch a bullet in motion and cause it to "break" the laws of physics as we understand those laws?

 

[RLD]

Do you believe that God can supernaturally touch a bullet in motion and cause it to "break" the laws of physics as we understand those laws?

If he chose to, sure.

 

[Rubberhead]

If he chose to, sure.

Then God could have chosen to "break" those laws during Creation?

 

[RLD]

No one can possibly comprehend the fluid dynamics that happen during the flood.
Except GOD and the witnesses that were on the ark.
Quick instant water pressure does all kinds of crazy things. Throw in other factors and then you understand why layers of sediment can occur and form in very quick time under the right conditions. The layers scientist think are from millions of years ago could have and did occur at a very quick rate and time period. The flood was not a normal condition, thus the scientist explanations and what not are merely guesses based of assumptions stemming from belief that earth is millions of years old. Which it isn’t.

Actually we can perfectly understand fluid dynamics at many different volumes. Including potential world wide flood levels.

And they still don't create mountains.

I think you invest a lot of energy into irrational mental gymnastics to try and ignore the evidence in front of you that does not at all contradict with the bible, but rather with certain human corollaries from it. That speaks to me of some pretty profound fear.

Scientists don't assume any particular age of the earth, the evidence leads them to the conclusion of an old earth.

You, on the other hand, assume a young earth and simply ignore all evidence to the contrary. You need to assume a God with a drunken or inconsistant hand on the time throttle to make your worldview work. That is a pretty bizarre assumption.

 

[RLD]

Then God could have chosen to "break" those laws during Creation?

Sure. But there is no evidence he did so. Nor is there a scriptural suggestion he did. There is only your bizarre theory. And I don't think a rational person would choose to build their understanding of the cosmos around your unfounded assumptions.

I could posit a million counter-science scenarios where God chose to do something contra-science, but why would any rational person chose to believe them? There would be no scriptural or evidentiary reason to do so?

You would be asking me to have faith not in reason, nor in scripture, but in your fear filled God-of-the-gaps approach. And I don't. And won't without some rational reason to do so.

 

[3chunter]

Actually we can perfectly understand fluid dynamics at many different volumes. Including potential world wide flood levels.

And they still don't create mountains.

I think you invest a lot of energy into irrational mental gymnastics to try and ignore the evidence in front of you that does not at all contradict with the bible, but rather with certain human corollaries from it. That speaks to me of some pretty profound fear.

Scientists don't assume any particular age of the earth, the evidence leads them to the conclusion of an old earth.

You, on the other hand, assume a young earth and simply ignore all evidence to the contrary. You need to assume a God with a drunken or inconsistant hand on the time throttle to make your worldview work. That is a pretty bizarre assumption.

I would rather have my beliefs mirror the Bible then to not. I am banking on the Bible friends. Put my soul on the Bible and take my chances not believing in all the other made up crap.

 

[Rubberhead]

What bizarre theory? I plainly said, "I don't know"...The age of the Earth has no bearing on my faith in God.

 

[Red Leg]

Then God could have chosen to "break" those laws during Creation?

And created all those false core samples, the fossil record, a radio carbon timeline, plate dynamics, and a host of other evidence at the same time? That isn't God, that is a human construct of a Loki-like prankster.

What bizarre theory? I plainly said, "I don't know"...The age of the Earth has no bearing on my faith in God.

Exactly! So why embrace what is patently a human construct. Why demand a false choice between reason or a spiritual life. It’s a tragic, self-inflicted wound for communities of faith—and a division entirely created by locking human understanding into the limitations of the 17th century,

 

[Rubberhead]

And created all those false core samples, the fossil record, a radio carbon timeline, plate dynamics, and a host of other evidence at the same time? That isn't God, that is a human construct of a Loki-like prankster.

Exactly! So why embrace what is patently a human construct. Why embrace a false choice between reason and a spiritual life.

I didn't say that the core samples were faked. I said, time could have been different or even non-existent back then. If so, we'd never know it. Again, God is the God of time. So, arguing 6,000 years or 6 billion years is meaningless. That's my only point. The larger point is that it doesn't and shouldn't affect one's faith in God and desire for salvation through Jesus Christ.

 

[Odinsraven]

I am with Epicurus - he figured it our 2000 and change years ago - so why question his teachings !

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?"

 

[Odinsraven]

I didn't say that the core samples were faked. I said, time could have been different or even non-existent back then. If so, we'd never know it. Again, God is the God of time. So, arguing 6,000 years or 6 billion years is meaningless. That's my only point. The larger point is that it doesn't and shouldn't affect one's faith in God and desire for salvation through Jesus Christ.

Reading this I hope proton decay is real !

 

[Rubberhead]

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?"

Here's how I try to understand it - For God to "prevent evil" would be to forcibly control the actions of those willing to do evil. But, forcibly controlling the free-will of others is the basic definition of evil so God, being Holy cannot. But he has offered an eternity to those who believe in his Grace where evil no longer exists.

In the Garden of Eden in Genesis, the first book of the Bible, two specific trees are mentioned - the Tree of Life and the Tree of Knowledge. The tree of life is a source of eternal life. The Tree of Knowledge is the symbol for moral choice and free will - which always leads to evil.

In Heaven as described in Revelation, the Bible's last book, there are two specific trees both are Trees of Life. I take this to mean that with the completion of Christ's works and the establishment of Heaven, there will no longer be evil (or sin) and those that are in heaven made the choice to be there by accepting the Grace of Jesus Christ.

 

[Rubberhead]

Reading this I hope proton decay is real !

Photon or Proton?

 

[fourfive8]

Giving Man free will leads to an assumption of imperfection… IMO, a common argument used by atheists and agnostics. That assumption is where I see many fall into a logic trap.

As to observations and mathematical theories of the cosmos as expressed by some physicists, I conversely see a similar trap. I understand and can do the math involved in quantum physics. Understanding string theory and the math involved in quantum entanglement is way beyond me. The problem with a lot of this is that it requires fabrication of constants and factors that have no supporting scientific building block foundation. To make the math and physics work right and square with observations, fudge factors have to be added. To explain and make the math work for the expansion acceleration of the universe, physicists have to add dark matter and dark energy into their equations. On this point I will defer credit of possibility to those locked into a literal interpretation of their biblical views. Not saying absolutely one side is wrong and one side is right… simply deferring to open minded possibilities. IMO, no one has the absolute answer any more than they can explain what came before the singularity.