Re-introducing Extinct Species

[RTG]

When I was a young man, a group of Russian scientists announced they were going to clone, or bring back the woolly mammoth! Wow I thought, this means by the time I am an old fud (like about now) I'll be able to hunt them. Well talk is cheap, no mammoth yet.

I hate to root against Texas but I won't hold my breath to see those hunts advertised anytime soon.

 

[elephantmaster29]

I'd be down for tuskless nammoth

 

[rookhawk]

As an aside, surely the tusks and their extreme length and curvature were designed to allow the mammoth to forage properly? Creating anything without the tusks seems rather cruel.

As one example, if any of you have seen a "Shademaster" Locust aka a Honey Locust tree, you'll note that they are a sexed tree and one of the sexes has the nastiest thorns you can imagine on them. (I think the males but don't quote me which gender of the tree) At any rate, the tree evolved in North America to have those thorns to prevent browsing by the mammoth. The mammoth likely evolved the extreme length and curvature of their tusks to circumvent a nasty thorn to the face while trying to eat locust trees. A bit of an arms race between the two.

So in conclusion, making a fake mammoth is dumb, making a fake mammoth without all the adaptations to flourish is bonus-round cruel.

 

[Safari Dave]

When my son was about 4, he asked me if I thought God would let us hunt dinosaurs in heaven.

I told him I thought that he would if that would be what made us truly happy!

(Wonder how I can get a really big DR up there???)

 

[Red Leg]

As an aside, surely the tusks and their extreme length and curvature were designed to allow the mammoth to forage properly? Creating anything without the tusks seems rather cruel.

As one example, if any of you have seen a "Shademaster" Locust aka a Honey Locust tree, you'll note that they are a sexed tree and one of the sexes has the nastiest thorns you can imagine on them. (I think the males but don't quote me which gender of the tree) At any rate, the tree evolved in North America to have those thorns to prevent browsing by the mammoth. The mammoth likely evolved the extreme length and curvature of their tusks to circumvent a nasty thorn to the face while trying to eat locust trees. A bit of an arms race between the two.

So in conclusion, making a fake mammoth is dumb, making a fake mammoth without all the adaptations to flourish is bonus-round cruel.

It is why all those American antelope with all that incredible unnecessary speed keep looking over their shoulders for the North American cheetah. They were around 150 lbs and likely didn't vanish until as late as 15,000 years ago. There is a lot of latent Darwinism out there. I have always wondered if the antelope didn't develop too much speed.

 

[Captain Munro]

Read this yesterday as I follow cryptozoology. I am of the opinion the tazzy tiger is still alive, probably on the mainland.

What would be interesting decades from now (should the clones be released into the wild) would be testing the DNA of the offspring to see how it compares to the original DNA strain.

However, I think this research company would be better off putting its millions of dollars to use trying to capture the never extinct thylacine. That would certainly be one of the highlights of the 21st century

I'm a crypto guy too. Fun to think about.

 

[CoElkHunter]

It is why all those American antelope with all that incredible unnecessary speed keep looking over their shoulders for the North American cheetah. They were around 150 lbs and likely didn't vanish until as late as 15,000 years ago. There is a lot of latent Darwinism out there. I have always wondered if the antelope didn't develop too much speed.

I theorize that as the Ice Age marched forward, heavier snow and colder temperatures in North America prevented the cheetahs from being successful enough in pursuing the pronghorn or other game and meeting their food needs. Starvation and/or disease (like distemper) doomed the cheetah here. I read something awhile ago, where every cheetah's DNA in Africa can be traced to ONE female there that survived the Ice Age. Desperate times for mammalian survival.

 

[curtism1234]

70k years ago the human population crashed to several hundred to several thousand. Hard times

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

Actually, the Earth’s human population got down to 8 a little over 4k years ago. The population began to grow from the original 2 around 6k years ago . And Evolution is a farce

 

[Nevada Mike]

I think it is highly likely that mammoths and mastodons used their tusks in much the same way that African elephants do.

Those long curving tusks would be excellent at clearing snow from the underlying grasses, thus helping them to survive ice age winters.

How many of you would like to hunt mammoth the "authentic" way - with an atlatl tipped with short shafts and Clovis points? Or perhaps you would prefer the 458 Lott?

 

[CEO]

Found it: https://www.themeateater.com/listen/meateater/ep-075-cloning-mammoths

Dr. Beth Shapiro on the Steve Rinella podcast.

Honorable mention unrelated: You have to listen to the meateater podcast about animal weapons. By far the most amazing content I've heard on his show about how evolution resulted in the extinction of various species. Also, how animals adapt spontaneously to up-end the arms race of animal weapons with other tactics and features. That one is with Dr. Doug Emlen and can be found here: https://www.themeateater.com/listen/meateater/ep-180-teeth-horns-and-claws

Started listening to the Beth Shapiro episode yesterday. Very interesting, but also brings you back down to earth when discussing the "de-extinction" of species. Thanks for the recommendation.

 

[mark-hunter]

not a new idea.
Nazis tried to reintroduce wild bovine, auroch.

I remember watching an old black and white documentary, seeing some of experimental specimens being released in thirties, but all was done based on selective breading of different bovines, and based on historic drawings and rough idea how that animal should look and behave like.

When the Nazis Tried to Bring Animals Back From Extinction

Their ideology of genetic purity extended to aspirations about reviving a pristine landscape with ancient animals and forests

www.smithsonianmag.com

This project we know, was not successful.

Now known as tauros program today

Tauros | Rewilding Europe

rewildingeurope.com

 

[Hogpatrol]

How about cloning the American Chestnut Tree with the genes necessary to be resistant to blight. These trees could be used to feed mammoths in the wild.

There is a hybrid, blight resistant chestnut available for transplant, Dunstan.

Dunstan Chestnut History – Chestnut Hill Nursery

chestnuthilltreefarm.com

 

[rookhawk]

There is a hybrid, blight resistant chestnut available for transplant, Dunstan.

Dunstan Chestnut History – Chestnut Hill Nursery

chestnuthilltreefarm.com

Thanks @Hogpatrol I'll definitely be buying some of those for my new orchard when I move. I'm also monitoring the science closely on a new hybrid Ash tree to plant since America has lost all the green and white ash to beetles in the past decade.

 

[Hogpatrol]

Getting off topic here but many years ago, while deer hunting in the middle of Pennsylvania, I spotted a native chestnut tree about six inches in diameter at the base. IIRC, I snagged a couple chestnuts from it and called Penn State university forest department and was told some will sprout from old roots but never make it more than several years. @rookhawk , Checked out some tree stands yesterday and saw at least fifty mature white ash trees dead. Now we're dealing with spotted lantern flies, another Chinese import.

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

not a new idea.
Nazis tried to reintroduce wild bovine, auroch.

I remember watching an old black and white documentary, seeing some of experimental specimens being released in thirties, but all was done based on selective breading of different bovines, and based on historic drawings and rough idea how that animal should look and behave like.

When the Nazis Tried to Bring Animals Back From Extinction

Their ideology of genetic purity extended to aspirations about reviving a pristine landscape with ancient animals and forests

www.smithsonianmag.com

This project we know, was not successful.

Now known as tauros program today

Tauros | Rewilding Europe

rewildingeurope.com

It’s been a little while ago but I saw where that rewilding group had introduced asiatic water buffalo to the Danube delta

 

[Elite17]

Pretty interesting, but if I could choose which extinct species to bring back, I'm not sure that's the one I'd select.

 

[crs]

Amid all the speculation, we should remember the Rule of Unintended Consequences.

 

[Traveler1]

As for the Tasmanian Tiger, I don't believe it "fully" extinct. Some 40 years ago while hunting in the Northern Territory, we heard whines and soft growls over several nights that our PH Barry Lee swore it had to be a Tasmanian Tiger as it nothing he had ever heard before. He grew up the bush in NT and there would no reason for him to make this up. Over the years we hunted several more times with Barry all over Australia and he become part of our family. He moved to Texas when he partially retired and opened and Australia restaurant in one building on the beach in Corpus. Years later after we heard the TT in the bush and the internet was still in it's infancy we pulled up some the only known recording of TT and he we like that is what we heard.

As for bring them back why not..... They would help keep the smaller mammals in check particularity the feral cat and rabbit problem !

 

[Hunter4752001]

Interestingly there's research that suggests that the Thylacine only became extinct only went extinct in the late 1990s or early 2000s.

The research method was to examine the rate claimed sightings. The reasoning is that if the sightings are due to mistakes, drunks, looney tunes etc, then the rate over time should be relatively constant. However if there is a significant variation then its more likely to be reflecting something changing in the environment. The sightings significantly dropped during that period and haven't recovered.