Quick pre-purchase review and advice

Chamaan

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Hello everyone,

I need your experienced minds to help me for a check-up before i buy and mount a scope on my .375 H&H mag, Winchester 70 Alaskan rifle.

The said scope is a Bushnell Forge 1-8x30 (34 mm tube diameter, 38 mm "true" objective diameter).
Before being a registered member, lurking AH forum helped me tremendously finding appropriate mounts and collars. Hoping i'm not mistaken, I have chosen :
- Warne maxima bases (.330 spacing, ref 902/802).
- Warne maxima quick detach collars : 34 mm, low.

1) If you don't mind, i would like your chek-up on these equipements compatibility. In particular my main worry is the length of the scope (285mm) in regard of the length of the magnum action since these collars are not deported.

2) I will be mounting the scope, and that will be the first time i do it myself. I understand Warne recommends 25in/lb for both mounting the bases on the barrel, and securing the collars around the scope. Is that correct in your experienced ? I intend to buy Warne torque screwdriver calibrated at 25in/lb, is that sufficient or should take their 65in/lb (double the price) ?

Thank you very much in advance.
 

BeeMaa

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Wheeler makes kits for mounting scopes.
And they come with an adjustable torque wrench.
Check them out.
https://www.wheelertools.com/

Use the torque recommended by Warne.
25 inch-lbs sound right for the base and ring screws.
Make sure you use some form of LocTite on the screws.

As for you having the proper rings, I'm not sure.
But I will say I've not seen a 34mm tube on a DG caliber rifle.
Bigger means more weight, means more likely to slip during recoil.

Like to see a picture of it when you are done.
 

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Chamaan

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Wheeler makes kits for mounting scopes.
And they come with an adjustable torque wrench.
Check them out.
https://www.wheelertools.com/

Use the torque recommended by Warne.
25 inch-lbs sound right for the base and ring screws.
Make sure you use some form of LocTite on the screws.

As for you having the proper rings, I'm not sure.
But I will say I've not seen a 34mm tube on a DG caliber rifle.
Bigger means more weight, means more likely to slip during recoil.

Like to see a picture of it when you are done.

Thank you very much BeeMaa for your input, i will look into the Wheeler kits.

As for this scope, it weights 732 grams. That is indeed almost double the weight of most Leupold optics. I am usually going by "heavy is good, heavy is reliable" but you are raising my concern. Do you think i'd be better looking at lighter scopes ? I am new to the world of "big" calibers and maybe this choice was my first rookie mistake.
 

BeeMaa

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I'm by no means the leading authority on what scope belongs on what rifle.
However, most choose a low power 1" or 30mm tube.
Magnification starts around 1 or 2 and up to whatever you want.
Although a 3-9x40 isn't out of bounds for a 375.
You want low power for those up close and personal DG hunts.
True 1x is preferred for a dedicated DG rifle.

Leupold VX3i 1.5-5x20 is perfectly acceptable for a 375.
It's what I had for my first safari.
Tough as nails and reliable.
The only thing it didn't have is an illuminated reticle.

There are other good scopes out there.
Trijicon and Leupold are good places to start.
Swaro, Leica, Zeiss, Kales and S&B offer better glass, but at a significant price hike.

Quick Detachable (QD) rings are a big plus.
For following up wounded (DG) animals in the thick brush.
Warne, Talley and Alaska Arms are all good sources.

I have a Z8i 1.7-13.3x42 on our 375H&H.
And a Z8i 1-8x24 on our 416RM.
 

Chamaan

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I'm by no means the leading authority on what scope belongs on what rifle.
However, most choose a low power 1" or 30mm tube.

Leupold VX3i 1.5-5x20 is perfectly acceptable for a 375.
It's what I had for my first safari.
Tough as nails and reliable.
The only thing it didn't have is an illuminated reticle.

Quick Detachable (QD) rings are a big plus.
For following up wounded (DG) animals in the thick brush.
Warne, Talley and Alaska Arms are all good sources.

Who is to refer to, if not those who tried ahah !
Your input is very appreciated and i will follow your advice. I was already hesitating with a Leupold scope but since i plan on using my rifle also in France in driven hunts for deers and boars, illuminated cross-dots are great.
So it might finally be a Leupold VXR "Hog" 1.25-4, or the VX5HD for a little more money.

I will stay on QD Warne rings, on Warne bases, and adapt to a 30mm tube.
 

fourfive8

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The scope will probably fit and work OK... stress "probably". I have a Leupold VX3 with 36mm obj mounted on a comparable Win 70 375 HH. I try to always use dual dovetail mounts on this type rifle but that is my personal preference and not an absolute. I included a photo of the set up. I added pointers to the photo to show critical areas of concern when mounting. L-R... clearance of objective bell above barrel, next 4 pointers are the limits of where the rings can be mounted on the scope body, far right pointer represents eye relief consideration. On this mounting I had to use an extended front base and an extended rear ring to accomplish the mounting for best eye relief. Each model/type of scope will have different parameters for mounting to any one rifle model. You can simplify mounting by using a one piece rail with multiple ring mounting slots but I don't like that set-up because it is in the way of open/clear loading and ejection- especially when considering a DG rifle.

What I've done in situations like yours when unsure about fit for length between mounting areas on scope, clearance for bolt throw and front bell and best eye relief, is to get the scope first. See and measure how it will best fit on the rifle, THEN get the mounts (bases and rings) that will accomplish the mounting within the best parameters. Note on this mounting, to get the eye relief correct, the front ring is right up against the obj bell and that includes using an extended front base. To mount this way using dual dovetails, I had to mix and match two different ring/base sets.

When first mounting a scope in a new set of rings/bases, I use alignment and lapping bars to ensure front-to-rear alignment of rings. Doing so offers the best chance at secure mounting without damage to scope. I then use blue loctite on screws and cinch the screws by feel to probably something more than 25 inch lbs by feel. The mounts on my DG rifles use size 8 screws, so they can be tightened down a little more than the size 6s.

vx3 on Win  70.JPG
 
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machinistbutler

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The forge seems heavier than my razor 1-6? Maybe on the 375 will be fine , but no way would I put it on a heavier recoiling rifle.

Had warranty done after my 458 did a number on my Warne rings on my 458 Lott. Warne warranty was great, but I would rather not ever have to use a warranty.

I would wait for a used Leupold 1-6, or a new one if you can swing it.
 

Newboomer

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I have Leupolds on all my rifles. On your 375 just make sure you have adequate eye relief. A bush tattoo is not an enjoyable experience.
 

Fabnosh

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Hello.

Just a quick comment on torque settings. These are determined by the manufacturer of the equipment and, as such, will be fit for purpose as long as they as used within the defined operational parameters of the equipment and should not require the use of additional bonding compounds. I've mounted many scopes using a variety of rings and bases I do not recall any suggesting using loctite (or similar) but all cite torque settings. Additionally, before investing in expensive 'made for the job' equipment to torque your fittings, do take a quick trip into your local bicycle store. Bicycles are getting really rather sophisticated and many cyclist torque everything and there are loads of good quality preset breaking torque wrenches at really good prices into which you can slot your desired sized socket/driver/torx piece. Do go with a inch/lb to nm conversion card though as most come from Europe.

Hope that helps

FN
 

Chamaan

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Thank you very much for all your advices.
What i thought was a quick check-up was actually mandatory. Here are my take-home points :
- The Bushnell Forge scope is too heavy, and what i thought would be an advantage for managing recoil is actually problematic.
- I will pursue with a Leupold optic since most of their products seem to be reliable and affordable. I will probably choose the VX5HD.
- I will first get the scope, then opt for the appropriate mount although i would like to use the Warne maxima QD mounts and collars.
- I will lurk around for the torque screwdriver if o don't get a wheeler kit with it.

I may add that Warne recommend that we do NOT lap maxima rings.
 

BeeMaa

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If you don’t want to use LocTite, that’s your choice.
But having a heavy recoiling DG rifle is not the same as a NA deer rifle.
Even then, an ounce of prevention will be better than a loose scope base in the field.

BTW - You will only notice the loose scope base after missing a shot.
Probably after missing 2 or 3.
Then having to figure out what screw is loose.
Find a wrench to tighten it.
Rezero your scope.
This doesn’t sound like a good way to spend a hunt to me.

And you will likely do it all over again when you get home.
Because you will want to add the LocTite you didn’t add the first time.
 

Skinnersblade

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If you don’t want to use LocTite, that’s your choice.
But having a heavy recoiling DG rifle is not the same as a NA deer rifle.
Even then, an ounce of prevention will be better than a loose scope base in the field.

BTW - You will only notice the loose scope base after missing a shot.
Probably after missing 2 or 3.
Then having to figure out what screw is loose.
Find a wrench to tighten it.
Rezero your scope.
This doesn’t sound like a good way to spend a hunt to me.

And you will likely do it all over again when you get home.
Because you will want to add the LocTite you didn’t add the first time.

In a pinch stealing a bottle of acrylic clear nail polish from the Misses will also work.
 

Hogpatrol

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As @fourfive8 posted, I have used double dove tails on a heavy recoiling rifle and they are solid. On the same rifle the scope was mounted in Burris signature rings with inserts and nothing ever moved. As far as loctite, I've used it only on the bases, never on the rings.
 

fourfive8

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Good idea to get the scope first, then double check and measure for the best mount height and configuration.

I don't understand the warning to not lap Warne rings?? If nothing else, a scope lapping bar will indicate misalignment before any damage is done, no matter if there is need to lap or not. Most modern rifle D&T alignment or groove alignement and scope rings and bases tend to be pretty true, but it is not 100%.
 

machinistbutler

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Warne uses a coating on their qd mounts that I have, it is quite thick. I think if you lapped too much of this coating away it may change the size enough that scope slippage could be a problem. If they were a blued finish it wouldn't be an issue.

I kind of like the self aligning insert set up some rings offer . They don't seem to mark the scope, hold well and no need for lapping.
 

Chamaan

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Good idea to get the scope first, then double check and measure for the best mount height and configuration.

I don't understand the warning to not lap Warne rings?? If nothing else, a scope lapping bar will indicate misalignment before any damage is done, no matter if there is need to lap or not. Most modern rifle D&T alignment or groove alignement and scope rings and bases tend to be pretty true, but it is not 100%.
Warne uses a coating on their qd mounts that I have, it is quite thick. I think if you lapped too much of this coating away it may change the size enough that scope slippage could be a problem. If they were a blued finish it wouldn't be an issue.

I kind of like the self aligning insert set up some rings offer . They don't seem to mark the scope, hold well and no need for lapping.

Warne acknowledges lapping as a valid practice. However, they disaprove lapping for their QD vertical mounts. Here is the justification : (https://warnescopemounts.com/is-lapping-needed/)

"Since vertically split rings need to slightly flex around the tube to tighten, lapping is difficult to impossible to do correctly. Since the ring is designed to be slightly flexed at the correct torque around the scope tube, to properly lap the ring, it would need to be in that tight flexed state. This would make it so the lapping bar cannot move, so to be able to lap a vertically split ring, the ring must be loose. This can be a problem because the ring will have material removed, changing the shape of the interior surface of the ring. When the ring is then tightened, and flexed around the tube, it is not the correct shape. This can cause high and low spots, as well as uneven pressure on the scope tube."
 

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Forrest Halley

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Hello everyone,

I need your experienced minds to help me for a check-up before i buy and mount a scope on my .375 H&H mag, Winchester 70 Alaskan rifle.

The said scope is a Bushnell Forge 1-8x30 (34 mm tube diameter, 38 mm "true" objective diameter).
Before being a registered member, lurking AH forum helped me tremendously finding appropriate mounts and collars. Hoping i'm not mistaken, I have chosen :
- Warne maxima bases (.330 spacing, ref 902/802).
- Warne maxima quick detach collars : 34 mm, low.

1) If you don't mind, i would like your chek-up on these equipements compatibility. In particular my main worry is the length of the scope (285mm) in regard of the length of the magnum action since these collars are not deported.

2) I will be mounting the scope, and that will be the first time i do it myself. I understand Warne recommends 25in/lb for both mounting the bases on the barrel, and securing the collars around the scope. Is that correct in your experienced ? I intend to buy Warne torque screwdriver calibrated at 25in/lb, is that sufficient or should take their 65in/lb (double the price) ?

Thank you very much in advance.
I have two scopes for my Model 70 Safari Express .375. It is one of my favorite rifles and I have it setup for a lot of things. I use a a Leupold FX-II 2.5x24 Ultralight and a VX-3i 4.5-14x40. both are mounted in their respective Low QD vertical rings on the Warne .330 mount. They are low with the big bell being millimeters off the barrel. I don't notice the sights in the scope. I used blue loctite for the screws in the mount and rings. I have had no trouble so far.

The 1-8 sounds like everything one could ever want. You have selected everything perfectly for the mounting.

My only complaint about the system is a small one and that is that the mount base extends over the forward portion of the action and might get in the way of reloading with a scope dismounted.
 

Chamaan

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I have two scopes for my Model 70 Safari Express .375. It is one of my favorite rifles and I have it setup for a lot of things. I use a a Leupold FX-II 2.5x24 Ultralight and a VX-3i 4.5-14x40. both are mounted in their respective Low QD vertical rings on the Warne .330 mount. They are low with the big bell being millimeters off the barrel. I don't notice the sights in the scope. I used blue loctite for the screws in the mount and rings. I have had no trouble so far.

The 1-8 sounds like everything one could ever want. You have selected everything perfectly for the mounting.

My only complaint about the system is a small one and that is that the mount base extends over the forward portion of the action and might get in the way of reloading with a scope dismounted.

Forrest Halley that is quite exactly the answer i was hoping for. Thanks to you I am set on the Warne QD bases and collars, and i am conforted that i should be able to mount them myself.

As you said the 1-8 scope has everything going for it, but i was not aware that heavy scopes were not optimal and since it's more than 730 grams (versus around 330 for most lightweight scopes) i will change accordingly.

I shall add that your advice is very precious because big calibers are practically non existent nor used in France (where i live and hunt actually) so even buying the appropriate equipement is a challenge (using a 375 on the field without raising eyebrows even more of a challenge !)
 

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