Push Feed rifles..???

Sully

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Ive seen comments on the BB here that "push feed rifles" are best left at WalMart..??.. Basically saying they are "no good" and in some cases specifically calling out the Rem model 700.

So whats wrong with them??
 

Skyline

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There are hunters who believe that dangerous game rifles should be controlled round feed and that push feed rifles should not be used for that purpose. Others will disagree. For non-dangerous game hunting I think most hunters do not have an issue with push feed actions. As far as the Remington 700's go, there are a lot of fans. I am not one of them, just don't care for them. Probably has something to do with the fact that I have guided hunters who had the extractor fall apart on them while we were in the field and I have a close friend who is a 'Model 700 Nut' that has had extractors fall apart three times that I know of.

While there is some merit to the use of CRF actions for DG, the rest is primarily personal likes and dislikes, sometimes influenced by life experience, sometimes not.
 

Sully

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Mucho thanks. What Id be using one for would NOT be dangerous game...but the extractor "thingy" is certainly nice to know. Again...much thanks
 

Skyline

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No problem. A common fix for quite a while to the extractor problem was to have the stock Remington extractor replaced by a gunsmith with a Sako extractor, which are more robust. I have heard the problem with Remington extractors has been fixed, others say it isn't. I honestly do not know where that is at these days with the new production 700's. I know some people have quality control issues with them. Opinions abound. LOL

Cheers!
 

Calle

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I have heard that one benefit of controlled round feeding is good if you have to to use the gun up side down with a lion on top of yourself.
 

One eye

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I have heard that one benefit of controlled round feeding is good if you have to to use the gun up side down with a lion on top of yourself.

LOL! I guess that is another way of looking at it ;-)
Dan
 

Bruce Fletcher

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I looked up this subject to see what people on this forum have said about control round actions. The reason being I have not bought my first African rifle yet and wanted opinions. Myself I have hunted with a Remington 700 all of my life. I bought a 30-06 when I was 14 and it's still my main rifle for Deer, Pronghorn and Elk. I have never had an extractor problem or a trigger problem. I know where the bullets are going to go. Just today I watched a video on this site with a hunter going after Elephant and was using a Remington 700 in 416 Remington magnum. The guy has hunted worldwide. Also saw a guy hunt buffalo with a model 700 on another video. I am wondering if the controlled round feeding vs non-controlled is an issue that is more invention of a problem than a real one?
 

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... I am wondering if the controlled round feeding vs non-controlled is an issue that is more invention of a problem than a real one?
For almost 50 years, most of my big game hunting has been with push feed rifles. It wasn't until I started reading internet forums that I learned that there was a big deal about push feed rifles. Most of my rifles are push feed, but I do have 2 Mark X Mausers that are control feed.

On the 4 hunts that I've done in Africa, all were done with push feed rifles. Three of the rifles were Rem 700s (including the .375 RUM in my avatar), and the fourth was a Weatherby Vanguard. I have never had an issue or problem with feeding, extracting, triggers, bolts, or safeties with any of my rifles, but I suppose that Murphy could strike anytime...
 

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I am absolutely no authority and have watched this debate with interest. I personally prefer the push feed action on my browning to the control round feed on my Parker Hale. Larry Potterfield (Midway USA) states it is best to use the action you are most familiar with
This makes sense to me.
 

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I looked up this subject to see what people on this forum have said about control round actions. The reason being I have not bought my first African rifle yet and wanted opinions. Myself I have hunted with a Remington 700 all of my life. I bought a 30-06 when I was 14 and it's still my main rifle for Deer, Pronghorn and Elk. I have never had an extractor problem or a trigger problem. I know where the bullets are going to go. Just today I watched a video on this site with a hunter going after Elephant and was using a Remington 700 in 416 Remington magnum. The guy has hunted worldwide. Also saw a guy hunt buffalo with a model 700 on another video. I am wondering if the controlled round feeding vs non-controlled is an issue that is more invention of a problem than a real one?

The controlled round feeding (CRF) concept was developed for combat - as were all the features of the original mauser 98 action and its predecessors. A number of those characteristics have been modified for sporting rifles. For instance, the large wing safety doesn't work well with a scope; the stripper clip guide and thumb cut-out have been removed from commercial actions; and things like square bridges have been added in singles and pairs. Controlled feeding was one of those things which seemed to offer added assurance in the trenches, particularly in fast feed situations involving an inbound, bayonet equipped Tommy or Poilu. The carry-over to an inbound lion or buffalo was an obvious one. And because the mauser action was deemed the best basis for sporting repeaters for two generations (whether in original German, Birmingham, Springfield, or Winchester guise), CRF became the standard by which all bolt actions were judged. Understand that none of that has anything to do with the reliability of modern push feed rifles. They work, and they work with great reliability. I would note that the US Army's primary sniper rifle for the last three decades was based on the Remington 700 in .308 and .300 WM.

If I am having a traditional rifle built in a traditional caliber, it will be actioned in a mauser derivative. That doesn't make it a "better" rifle - merely a more traditional one.
 

sestoppelman

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This idea that Rem 700 extractors fail regularly is hogwash! If that were true, they would have scrapped it years ago. I hunted with a 700 for years as have other family members and never had an issue. Rem ran all kinds of tests before they released the 700 extractor on the public and found it just as reliable as any other system. Do I prefer a Mauser system? Yes but really only for aesthetic reasons. My brother took a 700 to Namibia a few years ago, and it worked perfectly. I had a CZ 550 with Mauser system the same trip. It worked well too. Too much is made of this.
 

Velo Dog

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Excellent question and comments by all.

Old Velo's two pennies on this one are:

The most Dangerous Animal on Earth walks on its hind legs.

For same, in the mechanized countries we commonly use push-feed rifles: (FAL, M-16, M-700 Remington, etc), shotguns: (Rem M-870, Benelli semi auto, etc.) sub machineguns: H&K MP-5, Beretta, Uzi, etc.), and handguns: (Sig, Glock, Beretta, Colt & copies of 1911, etc).

Personally, I would not hesitate to bring a dreaded push feed to Africa.

I rather like the older Sako "African" model (push feed), such as the former Hollywood Actor, Gerald McRaney uses in many of his Africa adventures, as Host of the TV Show; "World of Beretta".

Once I had an extremely accurate Model 721 Remington (push feed) in .300 H&H and would not have been the least bit embarrassed to have taken to Africa (sold it to help pay off my first safari).

Here in Alaska, many hunters successfully use push feed rifles to hunt grizzly and believe me, grizzly can be quite dangerous to people - veritable land sharks sometimes (fortunately the huge majority of them are noticeably shy of humans in areas where they are hunted very often).

Be that as it may, it seems like most PHs these days prefer CRF / old time full length extractor designs for DG repeaters and I too prefer them somewhat over the push feed but only somewhat (the reason I am broke today is that I like 'em all).

The original Model-98 Mauser, along with some of the not too far "streamlined/shaved-down" copies, such as the full length extractor Model-70 Winchester, Brno ZKK and 602, the CZ Model 550, 1903 Springfield, Patterns 14 and 17 Enfield, plus others that escape my 61 year old brain right now...have always been very much to my liking.

I have generally always preferred Mauser CRF designs, even way back at the stage in my life when I would read articles about Africa in outdoor magazines only after I ran out of other subject matter to read, in those often redundant and elementary / best for out house fodder publications.

Another thing to consider is that many PHs tend to elevate you in their "first impression department" a little, right from the git-go, if you show up in camp with a not too gussied-up CRF (as opposed to a mirror shiny, muzzle braked, over-powered scope with several turrets, levers and bubble level, mounted on extra-high aluminum rings, sea shells inlaid into the buttstock and chambered for some ultra galactic velocity/light bullet caliber).

Cheers,
Velo Dog
 

Bruce Fletcher

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Funny you mention a 721. Thats the rifle in my display image. One of my hobby's is buying 721's in unloved shape and if the bore and action are in good shape, I clean them up and refinish the stock and restore them back to former glory. I have found the 270 win models with the 24 inch barrel to be really accurate. I inherited one from my father and was thinking about glass and pillar bedding it and passing it on to my son until I took it to the range and zeroed a new scope for it. No need to mess with it. The rifle was so accurate I decided not to mess with it. I have a 30-06 on the way and as soon as that is done I am going to look for a 300 H&H to add to the collection.
 

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I agree that often times too much is made of minor differences.

Having said that, if I were building or buying a bolt rifle specifically for DG, it would make sense ( to me) to spec controlled round feed.

I guess my Number 1 rifles are CRF! Thumb and forefinger! ;)
 

Velo Dog

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I agree that often times too much is made of minor differences.

Having said that, if I were building or buying a bolt rifle specifically for DG, it would make sense ( to me) to spec controlled round feed.

I guess my Number 1 rifles are CRF! Thumb and forefinger! ;)

Yes to the single shots, and I guess then that the same same applies to the doubles and drillings, very controlled round feeding indeed.
 

Velo Dog

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Funny you mention a 721. Thats the rifle in my display image. One of my hobby's is buying 721's in unloved shape and if the bore and action are in good shape, I clean them up and refinish the stock and restore them back to former glory. I have found the 270 win models with the 24 inch barrel to be really accurate. I inherited one from my father and was thinking about glass and pillar bedding it and passing it on to my son until I took it to the range and zeroed a new scope for it. No need to mess with it. The rifle was so accurate I decided not to mess with it. I have a 30-06 on the way and as soon as that is done I am going to look for a 300 H&H to add to the collection.

Hello Bruce Fletcher,

I always thought Remington should have kept their Model 30 (sporterized Pattern 17 Enfield) as well as their Models 721 / 722 in their production lineup but evidently the public wanted flashier looking rifles and the Model 700 was born.
Even when I was kid, I thought them too shiny for me, and the BDL hinged floor plate is one more moving part I do not need.
But, I am just a nostalgist and definitely in the minority of consumer taste in rifle styles evidently.

One of these days, I will run across the right deal on a Mod-722 in .222 Remington caliber and drag it home, because I have all the brass, bullets and dies for it (used to have a Model 660 in .222) and I like to plink around with that cartridge sometimes (Remington never saw fit to chamber it in the Hornet, unfortunately, probably too much hand work required to make feeding the little rimmed cartridge feed reliably).
Someday, I might even get the notion to book a prairie dog / jack rabbit trip to the Great Plains states and a scoped .222 would be fun for me, just for old time sake.

As for deer/elk size game, here or over seas, the Model 721 in .300 H&H will be hard to beat.
I have shot deer and caribou with it, plus jack rabbits, coyote, prairie dogs, California ground squirrels with the 721 I once had, plus a dozen African animals in Namibia with a Mauser I had built for me in .300 H&H.
I believe the 721 / 722 were both designed by a champion bench rest shooter, for Remington and there is the answer as to why they were rather stout barreled (sort of a "heavy sporter contour") and usually quite a bit more accurate than the Model 70 Winchesters in the same calibers.

Cheers,
Velo Dog.
 

JTEX

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I have fired thousands of rounds through 700's many different calibers, broke exactly one extractor. I've had several issues with the Mauser type extractors. I rarely shoot upside down though..........
 

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