Purdey new bolt action rifle

[lockingblock]

To be fully honest...I love custom rifles and I have a bunch...but it has been hard for me to pull the trigger on a new DG bolt gun. The reason is simple...performance.

Full disclosure...by way of profession, I spent years of my life in the desert with a rifle. I'm a math nerd and I run a ballistic solver religiously while at the range. My rifles will prove themselves on paper or they will not stay with me.

I expect a custom rifle to perform better than a factory gun...IE a Model 70 or 700. I love the Model 70 and have examples from the 1950s to recent SC production guns. I don't have any of the overseas models.

My Model 70s are all 1 MOA or close, with quality hunting ammo. Ammo is often limiting on them...as better hunting bullets may not be the most accurate. That's not the rifle's fault. My standard for it is 3 rounds (ideally 5, but 3 is ok) in a 1 MOA circle at 100, 200, and maybe 300 yards...assuming I have an optic and whatnot that will get me there without me becoming the limiting factor.

So...when I see custom bolt guns that are 1.5 MOA shooters...and cost 25-30K...that's hard to justify. Very hard...

I saw an article some time back where the author opined that too many talented gunsmiths confused their work with art...the rifle can be beautiful, yes...but it must perform first and foremost. If it doesn't perform, the beauty is irrelevant.

In pointing this out, I've had smiths who build those 30K rifles scoff at accuracy standards..."it's a close range DG rifle, it doesn't need to be 1 MOA capable"..."bedding is for people that can't inlet"..."pillars weren't used on Bell's rifle, I don't use them on my rifles"..."trueing a Mauser is a waste of time, just run a tap through it"...and their rifles are 1.5 MOA at best.

That's not ok. If your $30K custom rifle is being out performed by a factory model 70/700...you are doing something wrong.

Purdey is correct on this rifle. Performance matters. We live in an age where performance will be public, on the internet as will complaints. The optics are capable and ammo is good. The rifle has to keep up...

 

[CTDolan]

It’s a question of what a person values and what they can afford. I’m strictly an open sight, close-in hunter. It’s my method; it’s my philosophy. For me, I’d take a 1.5 (or even 2.0) MOA rifle over a sub-1 MOA that is otherwise plain. Hell, a friend of mine shoots a Savage Axis and that routinely groups less than 1 MOA with his handloads. It’s a shooter but I’d rather have a 100 year old, handmade masterpiece that would likely never be capable of the same.

 

[Red Leg]

To be fully honest...I love custom rifles and I have a bunch...but it has been hard for me to pull the trigger on a new DG bolt gun. The reason is simple...performance.

Full disclosure...by way of profession, I spent years of my life in the desert with a rifle. I'm a math nerd and I run a ballistic solver religiously while at the range. My rifles will prove themselves on paper or they will not stay with me.

I expect a custom rifle to perform better than a factory gun...IE a Model 70 or 700. I love the Model 70 and have examples from the 1950s to recent SC production guns. I don't have any of the overseas models.

My Model 70s are all 1 MOA or close, with quality hunting ammo. Ammo is often limiting on them...as better hunting bullets may not be the most accurate. That's not the rifle's fault. My standard for it is 3 rounds (ideally 5, but 3 is ok) in a 1 MOA circle at 100, 200, and maybe 300 yards...assuming I have an optic and whatnot that will get me there without me becoming the limiting factor.

So...when I see custom bolt guns that are 1.5 MOA shooters...and cost 25-30K...that's hard to justify. Very hard...

I saw an article some time back where the author opined that too many talented gunsmiths confused their work with art...the rifle can be beautiful, yes...but it must perform first and foremost. If it doesn't perform, the beauty is irrelevant.

In pointing this out, I've had smiths who build those 30K rifles scoff at accuracy standards..."it's a close range DG rifle, it doesn't need to be 1 MOA capable"..."bedding is for people that can't inlet"..."pillars weren't used on Bell's rifle, I don't use them on my rifles"..."trueing a Mauser is a waste of time, just run a tap through it"...and their rifles are 1.5 MOA at best.

That's not ok. If your $30K custom rifle is being out performed by a factory model 70/700...you are doing something wrong.

Purdey is correct on this rifle. Performance matters. We live in an age where performance will be public, on the internet as will complaints. The optics are capable and ammo is good. The rifle has to keep up...

It’s a question of what a person values and what they can afford. I’m strictly an open sight, close-in hunter. It’s my method; it’s my philosophy. For me, I’d take a 1.5 (or even 2.0) MOA rifle over a sub-1 MOA that is otherwise plain. Hell, a friend of mine shoots a Savage Axis and that routinely groups less than 1 MOA with his handloads. It’s a shooter but I’d rather have a 100 year old, handmade masterpiece that would likely never be capable of the same.

Lol - I agree with both of you! I carried an ugly rifle to work for a long time. I hunt with art (though my eyes do demand optics on a rifle); and I expect that art, regardless when conceived, to be uncompromisingly accurate.

 

[Hank2211]

I stopped in at Purdey's on South Audley Street this morning. Apart from lots of stuff for sale, the place is a museum and well worth a visit just to look at the memorabilia.

But the guns. They have a nice selection of new and used shotguns, retailing for a low (that I could see) of about £38,000 to almost (again, that I could see) about £200,000! This is for shotguns . . .

Rifles are more reasonable. And the new bolt action rifle looks to be very reasonable given what these functional works of art cost (note that I am not going to argue about the high cost of these any more than I would argue about the high cost of a Porsche vs a Ford. They do the same thing, but they are not the same thing). The two main differences between this rifle and the 'traditional' rifle (around £70,000) seems to be that the new rifle has a free floated barrel while the traditional is set into the wood (although I believe still free floating, but the tolerances are incredible) and the scope mounts - the new rifle has Recknagel mounts (which I have on my .404 and which are excellent) rather than Smithson.

I am going to have to give this some serious thought . . .

 

[cem rona ergin]

http://www.sportingshooter.co.uk/features/holland-or-purdey-1-2179796
I kinda agree with him ..

 

[geoff rath]

I've just noted aFarquharson-actioned falling block rifle, by J Harkom and Sons for sale out here in Oz in 275 Rigby caliber, asking AU$14,600 (about US$10,500). A long way out of my reach, but the photos nearly gave me a heart attack. Under the right circumstances I could imagine carrying it into the hunting fields anywhere in the world.... hope the attachment comes through....
http://pics.usedguns.com.au/pics/4714-2017-11-19_06-20-20-PM.jpg Does such an item come into our consideration, when talking of Rigbys?

 

[sierraone]

Rigbys and Westleys in the next life maybe!!!

 

[geoff rath]

Amen, friend.

 

[lockingblock]

http://www.sportingshooter.co.uk/features/holland-or-purdey-1-2179796
I kinda agree with him ..

I want a Purdey shotgun in a big way...

The big question is whether to buy used and refurbish or to buy new. Vintage Guns UK has a set for sale, I think.

Buying new would be a great experience, but I understand the wait is measured in years and the cost is double to tripple what a used model goes for...you could have a pair of lightly used ones for the price of one new shotgun that takes 2 years to get.

The British shotgun market is saturated with great used guns. I have read good things about the program that

Atkin, Grant, and Lang has a program to buy up used AGL guns and then rebuild them to new owners specs. For the money, you are getting a nearly new gun with a ton of history from the golden age of British gunmaking. Much reduced costs...and a like new shotgun to your specs. https://www.agl-uk.com/gun-making/refurbished-agl-guns

I just wish I knew more about the various action styles and whatnot as there is a substantive price difference and I'm sure there is a reason behind it.

 

[CTDolan]

Atkin, Grant & Lang uses almost the exact same action as the Purdey (the Beesley self-opener), the difference between the two being in the ejector mechanism.

 

[CTDolan]

Atkin, Grant & Lang

James Purdey & Sons

 

[CTDolan]

A better image of a Purdey lock. The similarities between it and the Atkin, Grant & Lang are obvious.

 

[lockingblock]

As some of the older AGLs are from prior era guns when the three were not together, I wonder what the difference is among the various locks? Some must be better as the costs vary so widely.

Thanks for the pics, very informative. It's an intriguing subject as there are so many variations of sidelock designs and the features can have impact on the performance in a specific application. Plus...the cost difference between makers.

 

[geoff rath]

When we look at the complexity and precise fit of the sidelocks that we can understand their cost; especially considering the hand-fitting involved. THEN comes the stockwork.... I muchly admire artisans who create such pieces of functional art.

 

[CTDolan]

As some of the older AGLs are from prior era guns when the three were not together, I wonder what the difference is among the various locks? Some must be better as the costs vary so widely.

Thanks for the pics, very informative. It's an intriguing subject as there are so many variations of sidelock designs and the features can have impact on the performance in a specific application. Plus...the cost difference between makers.

Henry Atkin served his apprenticeship at Purdey so his guns were the ones to feature the Beesley action. My guess is that the guns of Stephen Grant and Joseph Lang featured the more traditional bar action sidelock (the guns of Grant often using the lovely and graceful sidelever opening mechanism).

 

[CTDolan]

When we look at the complexity and precise fit of the sidelocks that we can understand their cost; especially considering the hand-fitting involved. THEN comes the stockwork.... I muchly admire artisans who create such pieces of functional art.

Quite a nice video:

Sorry if I’ve hijacked the thread (gotten away from the Purdey bolt gun).

 

[geoff rath]

I don't care; it's all well worth the reading.....

 

[lockingblock]

I don't care; it's all well worth the reading.....

Agree...the best part of the forum is sharing knowledge. Knowledge is only valuable when it is shared and we have so many people with tremendous background that posses the kind of knowledge that is hard to find in books.

The information could save someone from making a costly mistake...as in buying a double that they may not like.

I've often thought how great it would be to have a basic synopsis with photos of the various double and bolt actions, common to dangerous game hunting. There is a century of learning in there somewhere.

 

[CTDolan]

If you're interested in becoming acquainted with some of the terminology this is a good place to start (many of the words feature a photo as an accompaniment).

http://www.hallowellco.com/abbrevia.htm

 

[nztimb]

I've just noted aFarquharson-actioned falling block rifle, by J Harkom and Sons for sale out here in Oz in 275 Rigby caliber, asking AU$14,600 (about US$10,500). A long way out of my reach, but the photos nearly gave me a heart attack. Under the right circumstances I could imagine carrying it into the hunting fields anywhere in the world.... hope the attachment comes through....
http://pics.usedguns.com.au/pics/4714-2017-11-19_06-20-20-PM.jpg Does such an item come into our consideration, when talking of Rigbys?

Now that is sweet and the dreams that must have been had over it would inhabit a thousand hunts