Politics

[badsection]

And I thought this was a hunting site!

 

[Hogpatrol]

And I thought this was a hunting site!

It is! If of no interest, upper right corner "Unwatch Thread" will prevent notices to it.

 

[Saul]

Someone here called the Israeli "my people"....... I call all Americans "my people" and no others.

I don't care what any other country does with it's own people or what laws they choose to adhere to. I don't care what their opinion is about what we do. I have never flown any flag other than the one of the USA on my property and I will have nothing to do with anyone who flys any other flag on US soil.

This horse apple stuff with the negros has been started by the Democrats of that I am sure...... the same way I'm sure "OJ" was one speedy negro as well as a murderer.

I believe that this will all come to a head before the election and the negros will be duped into being slaves of the Democrats and targets for people who just aren't going to allow them to bring violence into their communities.

As of late the idea of buying a lot of ammo has taken on a new meaning. Instead of people wanting to purchase a case of ammo, some people are looking for drums of ammo and are not looking to pay with a check or a credit card...... cash and lots of it.

Maybe these people heard one of the riot leaders say, "give us what we want or we'll burn everything you have to the ground"?

You are referring to my post. Israel is the Jewish homeland, regardless of what some in the muslim communities would have you believe. As a Jew, these are my people. I disagree with your insinuation that I am somehow un-American for recognizing this.

I must also say that I take exception to your use of the word "negro." I am sure that you are aware that this is a derogatory term for black people and it has no place on this forum. It makes all of us hunters look bad when we use racist language.

What we now have in the U.S. is 2% of the population determining how the 98% should act. It's the tail wagging the dog.

Are you referring to progressives or to the electoral college? Sorry, I could not resist. While the "2%" might control the debate on twitter and college campuses, they do not control governance because THEY DO NOT VOTE.

Politicians have no moral compass. They only say what they need to say to get votes to keep A JOB. Love him or hate him, Trump is one of the few elected officials who says what he wants and lets the chips fall where they may.

While there are certainly many politicians without a moral compass, I believe that there are still a good number who get into politics because they want to make the country better. Trump has not demonstrated to me that he has a moral compass, and a lot of what he says seems to be to fire up his base and get him more votes instead of actually translating into policy solutions.

And I thought this was a hunting site!

This is a site for a diverse group of individuals from around the world, united in the love of hunting and a passion for hunting in Africa. One of the benefits of being a member of such a group is being able to discuss a variety of topics with other upstanding gentlemen. You may participate in any discussion you like and ignore the ones you do not if you so choose.

 

[BSO Dave]

I will admit to occasionally playing the devil's advocate, or at least sometimes exaggerating a certain point, in order to stimulate discussion because I think it is healthy to have one's beliefs challenged from time to time, if only to sharpen one's reasoning. However, now is not one of those times. I sincerely believe that Trump has not demonstrated the temperament, intelligence, or leadership necessary to earn my vote again.

The more I read of your posts, the more I think ... The challenges posed here in argument of your beliefs have not seemed to help sharpen your reasoning.

A vote for Biden or not voting at all is a vote closer to the destruction of the USA as we know it. This is not opinion. This is not hyperbole. This is fact for anyone who has bothered to open their eyes and look around the last 3 weeks. In all seriousness, I really don't understand how that is not crystal clear to anyone who doesn't have their head firmly up their own arse..?

 

[Hogpatrol]

They MAY get in to politics with good intentions but one term in the swamp and the heady living of power, money and influence soon overtake them. After that, it's all about their themselves, their patrones and their circle of family and friends.
The voters are a mere two or four year inconvenience met with nothing more than the same pontificating.

 

[Saul]

The more I read of your posts, the more I think ... The challenges posed here in argument of your beliefs have not seemed to help sharpen your reasoning.

A vote for Biden or not voting at all is a vote closer to the destruction of the USA as we know it. This is not opinion. This is not hyperbole. This is fact for anyone who has bothered to open their eyes and look around the last 3 weeks. In all seriousness, I really don't understand how that is not crystal clear to anyone who doesn't have their head firmly up their own arse..?

Would you care to elaborate more on where my reasoning fails? May I suggest pointing to some facts or breaking down one of my arguments? Arguing that those who disagree with you need to "open their eyes" or "have their heads firmly up their own arse" is far from a convincing rebuttal.

They MAY get in to politics with good intentions but one term in the swamp and the heady living of power, money and influence soon overtake them. After that, it's all about their themselves, their patrones and their circle of family and friends.
The voters are a mere two or four year inconvenience met with nothing more than the same pontificating.

So are there any politicians that you do not believe have been corrupted by the "swamp?"

 

[Hogpatrol]

Would you care to elaborate more on where my reasoning fails? May I suggest pointing to some facts or breaking down one of my arguments? Arguing that those who disagree with you need to "open their eyes" or "have their heads firmly up their own arse" is far from a convincing rebuttal.

So are there any politicians that you do not believe have been corrupted by the "swamp?"

Knew a guy who was running for state office. It's a six month legislative term in this state. He would keep his job and full salary for that job. All he talked about was the extra money he was going to have to spend. He lost.
As far as the D.C. swamp, MAYBE the first term pols aren't corrupt but they will be.

 

[BSO Dave]

Would you care to elaborate more on where my reasoning fails? May I suggest pointing to some facts or breaking down one of my arguments? Arguing that those who disagree with you need to "open their eyes" or "have their heads firmly up their own arse" is far from a convincing rebuttal.

I think you are missing my point of the post. I have no desire or interest in debating you. I am making observations, not contending anyone's arguments in particular. Big difference. Furthermore, I never mentioned you directly. I made a general observation in regard to anyone having their head up their own arse if they are in denial of what is happening all around us. If it struck a personal chord, that is on you.

 

[Saul]

Knew a guy who was running for state office. It's a six month legislative term in this state. He would keep his job and full salary for that job. All he talked about was the extra money he was going to have to spend. He lost.
As far as the D.C. swamp, MAYBE the first term pols aren't corrupt but they will be.

Do you ever vote for incumbents? I also assume you are in support of term limits.

 

[Saul]

I think you are missing my point of the post. I have no desire or interest in debating you. I am making observations, not contending anyone's arguments in particular. Big difference. Furthermore, I never mentioned you directly. I made a general observation in regard to anyone having their head up their own arse if they are in denial of what is happening all around us. If it struck a personal chord, that is on you.

You replied to my post by calling it BS and saying that I have failed to use reasoning. You then posted a series of opinions and asserted that anyone who did not take them as fact was diluted. If you have no interest in having a discussion with me, then are you just posting to hear people agree with you?

 

[BSO Dave]

You replied to my post by calling it BS and saying that I have failed to use reasoning. You then posted a series of opinions and asserted that anyone who did not take them as fact was diluted. If you have no interest in having a discussion with me, then are you just posting to hear people agree with you?

From the collective reading all of your posts in this thread, I have made the observation that I think you are, for the most part, full of BS... You contradict yourself and even admit to posting exaggerations and hyperbole for the sake of "stimulating discussion" to use your own words. It is my opinion that you are trolling, naive, or both.... I tried earlier on in having a discussion with your contentions until I felt that you ventured off the rails of common sense.

If other members participating in this thread care to agree or disagree with me, that is also their call. I'm not commenting to seek anyone else's approval. I simply hate abiding BS when I hear it, and I will call it out every time. If you feel that I have mis-characterized you, my apologies in advance. Have a great day!

 

[Von S.]

You are referring to my post. Israel is the Jewish homeland, regardless of what some in the muslim communities would have you believe. As a Jew, these are my people. I disagree with your insinuation that I am somehow un-American for recognizing this.

I must also say that I take exception to your use of the word "negro." I am sure that you are aware that this is a derogatory term for black people and it has no place on this forum. It makes all of us hunters look bad when we use racist language.

I am actually quite fond of the word negro and have seen with my own eyes Martin King say it quite a few times.......once in person.

Saul.... you have no realistic thoughts on any of what has been written here so you are attempting to discredit those who aren't afraid to simply tell the truth.

Will you have that warm and fuzziness towards rioting negroes when they run up your street burning and looting or will you do what "your people" did in Germany and just lay there?

Saul....... you are all for the removal of Confederate flags, statues of Confederate soldiers, re naming military bases that bare confederate people...etc.

It will change nothing as there will be Democrat dissents who will constantly remind the entire negro population how there relatives came here in chains.....of course the part about being sold to the whites by their own people will be left out.

My people are all americans and have the jungle -bobs to stand up for what it right. And burning parts of America ain't part of it.

 

[Saul]

From the collective reading all of your posts in this thread, I have made the observation that I think you are, for the most part, full of BS... You contradict yourself and even admit to posting exaggerations and hyperbole for the sake of "stimulating discussion" to use your own words. It is my opinion that you are trolling, naive, or both.... I tried earlier on in having a discussion with your contentions until I felt that you ventured off the rails of common sense.

If other members participating in this thread care to agree or disagree with me, that is also their call. I'm not commenting to seek anyone else's approval. I simply hate abiding BS when I hear it, and I will call it out every time. If you feel that I have mis-characterized you, my apologies in advance. Have a great day!

It seems that you have made up your mind. I do not believe that I have contradicted myself. I do most of my replies in between emails so sometimes my attention is a little divided and maybe I am not as clear as I could be. That is my fault. To be clear, I have not been hyperbolic in my dislike of Trump. I really do dislike him that much! I apologize if I missed a point of discussion you made earlier, it was not my intention. If you ask me a straight question, you will get a straight answer. I do take offense to you calling my posts "BS" or that I have "ventured off the rails of common sense" when I dissent. In what has been a pretty civil and productive discussion on a variety of topics, I fail to see how these comments bring anything to the table. You are certainly within your rights to decline a further discussion, but I do hate when any voice does not feel heard in a discussion.

 

[Saul]

I am actually quite fond of the word negro and have seen with my own eyes Martin King say it quite a few times.......once in person.

Saul.... you have no realistic thoughts on any of what has been written here so you are attempting to discredit those who aren't afraid to simply tell the truth.

Will you have that warm and fuzziness towards rioting negroes when they run up your street burning and looting or will you do what "your people" did in Germany and just lay there?

Saul....... you are all for the removal of Confederate flags, statues of Confederate soldiers, re naming military bases that bare confederate people...etc.

It will change nothing as there will be Democrat dissents who will constantly remind the entire negro population how there relatives came here in chains.....of course the part about being sold to the whites by their own people will be left out.

My people are all americans and have the jungle -bobs to stand up for what it right. And burning parts of America ain't part of it.

In my opinion, the word is no longer acceptable for a person to say. MLK said it because of the point in time in which he was speaking and because he is black. I am totally against censorship of language, I do not believe in reporting people for things, or getting triggered. I just know that many Americans, myself included, find such a word to be derogatory, and I feel that it is my responsibility to point this out on such a forum, especially because there are a lot of antis out there that have a particular view of hunters and adding more fuel to the fire is not always the smart play. With that out of the way, I would like to hear about your experience seeing MLK in person. I am sure that it was quite the experience and you are incredibly lucky to have been able to witness such a pivotal part of American history.

May I ask what you mean by "realistic thoughts?" I reread my last few posts and I do not interpret them as "attempting to discredit" others. If I have been less than civil, that is a surprise to me. I would be keen to know more about this "truth" of which you speak.

I do take offense to your characterization of the Jewish people as lying there and taking it during the Holocaust. To me, this statement minimizes the millions of lives lost and ignores the resistance efforts. If you think that I would not take up arms a moment's notice to fight against the persecution of the Jewish people again, you are sorely mistaken.

You assume that I am for the removal of Confederate flags, statues, renaming bases, etc. and you are only partially correct. I do not believe that any flag other than the flag of the United States should be flown on any government property. What people do on their own property is their prerogative. I oppose the removal of Confederate statues as I see this as an attempt to whitewash history. Just as Auschwitz stands today as a reminder of the atrocities that took place inside, so too should Confederate statues remain as a reminder of our national history. If a plaque is required to add some historical context, so be it, but the statue should remain. Renaming military bases is a question for the military to answer. I have not served but I have the deepest respect for those who have. I will defer to them on such an issue.

I agree with you that it is harmful to continue the narrative of slavery in today's society. Yes, there is still a lot of work to be done to free ourselves of racism, but to accomplish this work, we must all all recognize past injustices and then moving forward together. I would go so far as to say the incessant reminders of slavery serve as a form of racist oppression, reminding black Americans of their historical subservience and continuing the narrative that they still inhabit such a position.

 

[wesheltonj]

I suspect most never Trumper just are closing their eyes to what is happening around them, thinking they will be spared because they opposed Trump. I just does not work that way with this group. Soros, spent a lot on money electing DA in major cities and he did not do that for nothing. Those DA, are refusing to charge for "minor" crimes like Criminal Trespass, etc. as they see fit. These protestors are getting a free pass, or at worst PR bonds or $10 bonds and they are back out on the streets doing the same things again and again. They are showing up at folks houses. If you think that electing Biden and this will all go away, you are wrong, you just need to look at Facebook and Twitter and you will see quickly it will not be over. And that's not the postings of just the crazies.

Thoreau wrote in Civil Disobedience that you had to be prepared to pay the price, and those folks are not paying.

 

[Saul]

If you have the time, this is an interesting watch. I normally do not like Tucker, but I think he makes a lot of good points.

 

[Von S.]

And I thought this was a hunting site!

In my opinion, the word is no longer acceptable for a person to say. MLK said it because of the point in time in which he was speaking and because he is black. I am totally against censorship of language, I do not believe in reporting people for things, or getting triggered. I just know that many Americans, myself included, find such a word to be derogatory, and I feel that it is my responsibility to point this out on such a forum, especially because there are a lot of antis out there that have a particular view of hunters and adding more fuel to the fire is not always the smart play. With that out of the way, I would like to hear about your experience seeing MLK in person. I am sure that it was quite the experience and you are incredibly lucky to have been able to witness such a pivotal part of American history.

May I ask what you mean by "realistic thoughts?" I reread my last few posts and I do not interpret them as "attempting to discredit" others. If I have been less than civil, that is a surprise to me. I would be keen to know more about this "truth" of which you speak.

I do take offense to your characterization of the Jewish people as lying there and taking it during the Holocaust. To me, this statement minimizes the millions of lives lost and ignores the resistance efforts. If you think that I would not take up arms a moment's notice to fight against the persecution of the Jewish people again, you are sorely mistaken.

You assume that I am for the removal of Confederate flags, statues, renaming bases, etc. and you are only partially correct. I do not believe that any flag other than the flag of the United States should be flown on any government property. What people do on their own property is their prerogative. I oppose the removal of Confederate statues as I see this as an attempt to whitewash history. Just as Auschwitz stands today as a reminder of the atrocities that took place inside, so too should Confederate statues remain as a reminder of our national history. If a plaque is required to add some historical context, so be it, but the statue should remain. Renaming military bases is a question for the military to answer. I have not served but I have the deepest respect for those who have. I will defer to them on such an issue.

I agree with you that it is harmful to continue the narrative of slavery in today's society. Yes, there is still a lot of work to be done to free ourselves of racism, but to accomplish this work, we must all all recognize past injustices and then moving forward together. I would go so far as to say the incessant reminders of slavery serve as a form of racist oppression, reminding black Americans of their historical subservience and continuing the narrative that they still inhabit such a position.

Saul

You appear to have deliberately forgot to answer why "Untied Negro College Fund" is ok, but me using the word negro is racist. How about "National Association for the Advancement of colored People"? Is that racist too?

I don't know how old you are, but I have been around to have seen the "negro" change what they wanted


If so.....why haven't the negroes and colored changed it?

You appear to take offense to many things written here. Could it be that most of it tells the truth that you just don't want to hear or be known to many who simply don't give it much thought?

So what will you do when the democrats of this country incite riotous action from the negroes on your street? Will you just lie down and take it?

 

[Saul]

Saul

You appear to have deliberately forgot to answer why "Untied Negro College Fund" is ok, but me using the word negro is racist. How about "National Association for the Advancement of colored People"? Is that racist too?

I don't know how old you are, but I have been around to have seen the "negro" change what they wanted


If so.....why haven't the negroes and colored changed it?

You appear to take offense to many things written here. Could it be that most of it tells the truth that you just don't want to hear or be known to many who simply don't give it much thought?

So what will you do when the democrats of this country incite riotous action from the negroes on your street? Will you just lie down and take it?

I understand your reluctance to giving up the word. I personally will not use it. You do not appear to be using it to be intentionally derogatory, and you do not use the N-word, so I will not mention it again.

With regard to the UNCF and NAACP, these are old names chosen by the members and I will use those words in the context of the name. I personally believe that certain words should be used by anyone, though it is their right to do so. I cannot speak for them and I will not try.

Would you please elaborate on what truths you are telling? Using the word "negro" does not seem to tell a "truth" and saying that the Jews just lied down and took it during the Holocaust is an untruth.

I understand why people in this country are upset. I understand why they are protesting. I even understand why some are rioting. I do not understand why some are looting. The protesters, the looters, and the rioters are three separate groups of people, even though it is politically advantageous to lump them all together. It is also incorrect to characterize them all as "the negroes." We have seen most of the violence being carried out by white rioters and agitators, some of whom are certainly aligned with ANTIFA.

 

[CJW]

If you have the time, this is an interesting watch. I normally do not like Tucker, but I think he makes a lot of good points.

Even after hearing these points do you still plan to vote for a democrat?


Do Trump's inadequacies warrant a vote for Biden? Who may I point out has proven himself a pathological liar, a cheater, to be corrupt, to be unstable and to also be currently suffering from dementia.

He's also possibly a pedophile and sexual predator.

 

[Saul]

Even after hearing these points do you still plan to vote for a democrat?


Do Trump's inadequacies warrant a vote for Biden? Who may I point out has proven himself a pathological liar, a cheater, to be corrupt, to be unstable and to also be currently suffering from dementia.

I would argue that all of those descriptors apply equally well to Trump. I will hold off diagnosing either Biden or Trump with dementia as I am not their doctor. I will say, though, that both seem to be showing at least some mental decline, which is to be expected giving the advanced ages of both men.

The way I see it, Trump's inadequacies make it so he does not deserve a second term, but that does not mean that it warrants a vote for Biden. Biden still has a few months to lose my vote. In a sense, the 2020 election is a wash. Either we get four more years of what I would argue is failure under Trump, or we get four years of Biden. Either way, we are going to get a fresh round of candidates from both parties in 2024, and that is where my interest lies. With Clinton's loss in 2016, we saw the democrats take a nosedive to the far left, arguing that her loss demonstrated that a moderate could not win. The resounding rejection of Bernie and his ilk in the primaries against Biden seems to have tempered a lot of calls for more progressive policies within the democratic party. With Trump's win, we saw a rise in extremely far-right candidates, which seems to have been mirrored on the democrat side, leading to even greater political polarization. I do not want a far right candidate any more than I want a far left candidate. If anything, I would hope that a Trump defeat or a Biden victory would motivate more centrist or even independent candidates to run in 2024.