Politics

[Tundra Tiger]

I've been biting my tongue not to answer, but I couldn't resist any longer.

Poverty in North America = Car, home with electricity, may even have heat and air, roof doesn't leak, running water, sewer, TV, and I'm sure a cell phone.

Poverty south of the border. Wood or metal shack, no running water, no electricity, no sewer, leaky roof.

Those who have never gone outside our borders, don't know what true poverty is. Poverty is not an excuse, but it's used every day, instead of pointing at the true issue. Personal accountability!

Preach it boet!!!!!

 

[RLD]

Thomas Sowell identifies that prior to the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and the creation of welfare, black two-parent households were in higher percentage than whites. Even with the prejudice of that era, black crime and perhaps ghetto poverty was not nearly as high as that of today.

As I stated above, those of us whose father’s had to re-align our thinking are better today because of it. As a young enlisted Marine, the last thing I or my peers wanted was to be summoned to present ourselves to the Sergeant Major (senior enlisted person in the command). If that Sergeant Major was black, in general he was much scarier than most white Sergeant Majors. Perhaps it was their James Earl Jones voice that would shiver our timbers! The black senior enlisted leaders seemed to me to be not only fierce, but also more caring and mentoring to us Marines who would take our heads out of our asses.

Most young men need older good men to guide them. Without fathers in the home, who does that?
For my liberal-leaning AH colleagues, didn’t your father ever have to correct your thinking or behavior?

Fatherless statistics:

https://wifitalents.com/fatherlessness-statistics/

https://www.nolongerfatherless.org/statistics

https://politifact.com/factchecks/2...hn-duncan-jr-says-90-percent-felons-grew-fat/

Statistics do lie but rates of 85% or better USA prisoners coming from fatherless homes doesn’t change to less than 50%.

If poverty is the mother of crime, fatherlessness is the mother of poverty. Or maybe fatherlessness causes together both poverty and criminal behavior?

I am not liberal leaning but I will take on the issue.

Fatherless and broken homes are a huge problem.

But, if the reason the families break down is economic or educational (or both) than it is better to treat the root cause rather than the symptom?

Also, for practical purposes, it is much easier for government or society to work on the problem of poverty or education rather than homelessness. You can create economic opportunity and facilitate access to education, I struggle to think about how any organization can reduce the problem of fatherlessness in a practical way, but I would be intrigued to hear any ideas you have.

And I am with you that aspects of the welfare state are part of the problem. However I don't lump the Civil Rights Act in with the broader welfare state. I think black people should be allowed to vote and support their right to eat at the same restaurants and use the same washrooms as the rest of us.

 

[RLD]

I've been biting my tongue not to answer, but I couldn't resist any longer.

Poverty in North America = Car, home with electricity, may even have heat and air, roof doesn't leak, running water, sewer, TV, and I'm sure a cell phone.

Poverty south of the border. Wood or metal shack, no running water, no electricity, no sewer, leaky roof.

Those who have never gone outside our borders, don't know what true poverty is. Poverty is not an excuse, but it's used every day, instead of pointing at the true issue. Personal accountability!

I have been to Mexico and several african countries I have a good idea of what poverty is.

But when you study violent crime in America, you will find it is primarily carried out why people who are poor.

And you miss the whole argument. No one is suggesting poverty is an excuse. Poverty is a cause. A cause that can or should be reduced as best we can.

Poverty or education are ideas that can be defined, studied, understood and worked on.

How do you run similar programs for personal accountability? It's a much more nebulous concept and I bet it is hard to figure out how well it links to violent crime.

 

[Tanks]

Now, that CCW is "shall issue" CA cities are finding new ways to prevent people from getting CCWs.

Glendale Police Department CA Online Carry Concealed Weapon Permit Application

glendalepdca.permitium.com

With training and fingerprint fees etc., it comes to $2,106 for initial license that is good for only 2 years.

 

[wesheltonj]

Petty crime (shoplifting, etc) and poverty might be linked (Stat's can prove any point). But violent crime is not. The problem is no father in the house to kick the kids ass growing up. If you don't straighten out a kid before 12, you're not going to. And once an adult, he will be living in time out.

 

[Boyd Brooks]

I am not liberal leaning but I will take on the issue.

Fatherless and broken homes are a huge problem.

But, if the reason the families break down is economic or educational (or both) than it is better to treat the root cause rather than the symptom?

Also, for practical purposes, it is much easier for government or society to work on the problem of poverty or education rather than homelessness. You can create economic opportunity and facilitate access to education, I struggle to think about how any organization can reduce the problem of fatherlessness in a practical way, but I would be intrigued to hear any ideas you have.

And I am with you that aspects of the welfare state are part of the problem. However I don't lump the Civil Rights Act in with the broader welfare state. I think black people should be allowed to vote and support their right to eat at the same restaurants and use the same washrooms as the rest of us.

I hate to tell you but, yes you are a Liberal. You were the only one that got triggered by a post. If you watched the news, you would have known the makeup of the MOB. But if descriptive words send you into a two page diatribe you are Liberal.

 

[Red Leg]

It's an open debate as to where fatherlessness fits via poverty and education.

But if you look at the issue of violence, youth, poverty, education and fatherlessness are all better indicators of violence than race. Clearly. But he wants to call them a "black mob", not an youth mob (like the regular media does) or an uneducated mob, or a fatherless mob (because they honestly don't know) or a mob of poor people. He goes for the race baiting.

If we are being hamstrung on the violent crime issue, it is by people who want to simplify it to race, and refuse to recognize all of the issues you actually agree are the problem.

Lawlessness comes from poverty, education and broken homes. Not the colour of someone's skin.

Pity Tyler Durden is more concerned about ranting about not calling out blacks, when the colour of those people skin is irrelevant.

I guess there were reasons Google deplatformed them.

Actually your "clearly" with respect to poverty is the actual assumption in this discussion. The author's observation that the "mob" was predominantly black was a fact. It is a further fact that violent crime is disproportionately committed by blacks in this country. I personally believe that there are a host of reasons why that is occurring and certainly class or relative income is among them. But so are government efforts that have exacerbated the destruction of black family culture - something that was extremely powerful in this country well into the fifties.

Unfortunately, honest debate, employing facts, about this subject was almost impossible in this country prior to the woke movement. Now, a journalist can't cite a truthful observation without being accused of race baiting or dog whistling. The same sort of collective cognitive dissonance avoidance is at work across much of Europe as well meaning governments attempt to deal with obvious assimilation crises.

A thorough study of the facts associated with the causes of cultural and/or race specific violence is difficult in this country for the same reason. Some evidence and facts that have led to the destruction of the black family or inadmissible to the debate. I would suggest actually discovering all root causes and their interplay would be a useful start of discussion. Until we do that and until we quit name calling those with whom we disagree (that racist thing), we will be left to deal with the facts that somewhere around 30% of all violent crime and 50% of murders specifically across this nation are being committed by just 14% of the population.

 

[Tubby’s Canteen]

It’s a shame some kind of a program couldn’t be installed were youth offenders were placed in military style environments and run by retired military staff. Perhaps it would provide the structure fatherless youth are lacking instead of them sitting in juvenile detention centres getting bachelor degrees in petty crime and job fairing gangs.

 

[Tubby’s Canteen]

In the age of sail some of those youth would of been placed into the rolls of powder monkeys and cabin boys and from that could of worked their way through the ranks on navel ships

 

[LivingTheDream]

Also, for practical purposes, it is much easier for government or society to work on the problem of poverty or education rather than homelessness.

There was a post above that described what "poverty" is in America, running water, electrictiy, cell phones etc.

The fact is no matter what we do there is always be a bottom 20%, the government can raise the Standard of Living a 1000s times but there will always be a bottom 20%.

I think it is more to lack of consequences for actions, whether that is lack of a father, or a rich father that always bails them out. You combine a lack of consequences with idle time and you get a recipe for chaos.

 

[rookhawk]

I've been biting my tongue not to answer, but I couldn't resist any longer.

Poverty in North America = Car, home with electricity, may even have heat and air, roof doesn't leak, running water, sewer, TV, and I'm sure a cell phone.

Poverty south of the border. Wood or metal shack, no running water, no electricity, no sewer, leaky roof.

Those who have never gone outside our borders, don't know what true poverty is. Poverty is not an excuse, but it's used every day, instead of pointing at the true issue. Personal accountability!

The United States has the highest quality of life of any country on the planet for people of African ancestry.

People of african heritage, ages 15-28 in many places in the world do not have the negative statistics that we have with that demographic in the USA. The inference of the left is to excuse criminal behavior because of poverty, but it can't be poverty or otherwise we would have the lowest crime rates for people of african heritage in the world.

Another mind bender is that people I would define as "Black" or "African" (as in direct extraction from Africa) do not have the same crime statistics as "African Americans" that have had far more opportunities and were raised in a far higher average standard of living. Weird that those who emigrate from Senegal, Niger, and Ghana are absolutely killing it in the USA but those born with a silver spoon in their mouths by virtue of being born American are not having the same outcomes. Weird.

Another two weird data points:

For mixed-race intimate relationships, 96% of African-American males that couple with Caucasian women have no relationship with their children. It's the single lowest relationship success rate of any interracial coupling. Inversely, of all interracial couplings, the highest marriage success rate is paradoxically Caucasian men marrying African-American and Black women. How is this possible? We can't assign equal cause to the women.

The second strange data point is all-race divorce rate changes. In Kentucky over a two year period, they've seen a precipitous decline in divorces that do not correlate to the other States. What changed? Well, there is a legal presumption of 50/50 joint custody of children if the parents divorce. No incentives exist to leave a partner and be a single partner as no child support is forthcoming.

It's almost as if A+B+C, or young men, african-american male culture, and fatherless homes = high crime.

And its almost as if it is specifically young men because the crime stats flesh that out. And its specifically African-American males because African-American females do not have the same outcomes. And its specifically incentivized fatherlessness because of the fatherless rate of convicted felons. And it can't be a racist eugenics argument because African immigrants in the USA are not having the same outcomes as African-Americans.

Society won't call it out, they'll just assign ridiculous causes like poverty when that variable is not particularly correlative.

More Dads or More Cops. Either will do, the former is better for everyone, the latter is better for me.

 

[Big_Easy]

Thomas Sowell identifies that prior to the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and the creation of welfare

Welfare, in some forms pre-dates the 1960s. I believe a fellow member already tried to tie the increase in welfare in the 1960s with black fatherlessness in the home. I would say a better causation would be Nixon and the Republicans war on drugs in the early 1970s. Putting millions of black men in prison for minor drug offenses didn’t help the fatherless situation at all.

black two-parent households were in higher percentage than whites. Even with the prejudice of that era, black crime and perhaps ghetto poverty was not nearly as high as that of today.

Most young men need older good men to guide them. Without fathers in the home, who does that?
For my liberal-leaning AH colleagues, didn’t your father ever have to correct your thinking or behavior?

I don’t think the argument on here, or in general is whether or not a father in the home is important. I think the question is, why aren’t the fathers in the homes?

 

[Flipper Dude]

I hate to tell you but, yes you are a Liberal. You were the only one that got triggered by a post. If you watched the news, you would have known the makeup of the MOB. But if descriptive words send you into a two page diatribe you are Liberal.

He actually led with

“ I am not liberal leaning…..”

I almost spit out my sweet tea.

 

[Killingtime]

I have been to Mexico and several african countries I have a good idea of what poverty is.

But when you study violent crime in America, you will find it is primarily carried out why people who are poor.

And you miss the whole argument. No one is suggesting poverty is an excuse. Poverty is a cause. A cause that can or should be reduced as best we can.

Poverty or education are ideas that can be defined, studied, understood and worked on.

How do you run similar programs for personal accountability? It's a much more nebulous concept and I bet it is hard to figure out how well it links to violent crime.

I have a question if poverty is the main issue and (I do believe it is a big one) and culture is not, then what makes the crime types so different?

Why is Appalachian mountain areas that have some of the worst poverty and very high crime not full of murders? For decades and decades black males have been responsible for almost 50% of all murders and in America . You can find very similar poverty level cities or towns with completely different demographics and they have completely different murder numbers.

Black Americans 13-14% Of Population But 50%+ Of Homicide Arrests

FBI data shows violent crime fell 9.3% and murder 18% in 2025. Black Americans remain overrepresented in homicide arrests.

www.yahoo.com

https://factually.co/fact-checks/society/do-black-men-disproportionately-commit-murders-dc0b58

 

[RLD]

I have a question if poverty is the main issue and (I do believe it is a big one) and culture is not, then what makes the crime types so different?

Why is Appalachian mountain areas that have some of the worst poverty and very high crime not full of murders? For decades and decades black males have been responsible for almost 50% of all murders and in America . You can find very similar poverty level cities or towns with completely different demographics and they have completely different murder numbers.

Black Americans 13-14% Of Population But 50%+ Of Homicide Arrests

FBI data shows violent crime fell 9.3% and murder 18% in 2025. Black Americans remain overrepresented in homicide arrests.

www.yahoo.com

https://factually.co/fact-checks/society/do-black-men-disproportionately-commit-murders-dc0b58

I can't speak to the Appalachian area as I am not familiar with it, but across the United States if you control for socioeconomic disadvantage (household, poverty and education) differences in violent crime rates between races become statistically insignificant.

 

[RLD]

He actually led with

“ I am not liberal leaning…..”

I almost spit out my sweet tea.

I am not a far right MAGA racist, but I am far from liberal.

I guess opposing racism is not "conservative" to you?

Personally I prefer rooibis tea.

 

[RLD]

Society won't call it out, they'll just assign ridiculous causes like poverty when that variable is not particularly correlative.

More Dads or More Cops. Either will do, the former is better for everyone, the latter is better for me.

You are not well informed if you don't think there is a causal link between poverty and crime. Particularly concentrated poverty and income inequality.

I am in for more Dads and more cops. And when it comes to cops I am in for better educated, better trained and better paid cops. Done well, more cops leads to less people in prison and dead.

 

[Flipper Dude]

I can't speak to the Appalachian area as I am not familiar with it, but across the United States if you control for socioeconomic disadvantage (household, poverty and education) differences in violent crime rates between races become statistically insignificant.

Simply not true.

You wishing something were so doesn’t make it so.

Signed,

Far Right MAGA racist, apparently.

 

[RLD]

There was a post above that described what "poverty" is in America, running water, electrictiy, cell phones etc.

The fact is no matter what we do there is always be a bottom 20%, the government can raise the Standard of Living a 1000s times but there will always be a bottom 20%.

I think it is more to lack of consequences for actions, whether that is lack of a father, or a rich father that always bails them out. You combine a lack of consequences with idle time and you get a recipe for chaos.

There will always be a bottom 20%. But the condition of the bottom 20% can vary massively.

It's kind of hard to argue that there is a lack of consequences in a country with a top five incarceration rate in the world. You guys have lots of prisons and they are plenty full. That suggests there are lots of consequences.