Politics

[Alistair]

I literally told you that already in my post. Here's one of many sources to reference what I described. Initially companies were paying Trumps tariffs, as they slowly transitioned the majority of the burden to consumers over time.

Who Pays Trump’s Tariffs? | Council on Foreign Relations

President Trump routinely claims that foreigners pay his tariffs, which is false—U.S. importers pay them. Over time, however, foreign exporters can be expected to bear a small but rising burden of the tariffs through price cuts, while most of the cost will be borne by U.S. consumers in the form...

www.cfr.org

Which begs the obvious question: Who ultimately pays them? The consumer. There's a bit of a lag in shifting the impact over to them, but it is happening. Annual cost increases were higher this past year than they would have been due to tariffs. Next year, same thing. Until eventually 100% of the cost is borne by the consumer. As is always eventually the case.

I don't think this example in any way disproves the assertion that 'Consumers always ultimately pay the costs' and I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make by presenting it.

 

[fourfive8]

Big_Easy’s ideal economic system is for someone else, besides the consumer, to pay for goods and services. I’m very certain BHO was B_E’s God figure president. Affordable Care Act and the beginning of the subsidized green movement… after all, that’s how B_E got half his solar system paid for. Also probably believes that big O had a money tree in the back yard of the White House.

 

[Alistair]

Big_Easy’s ideal economic system is for someone else, besides the consumer, to pay for goods and services. I’m very certain BHO was B_E’s God figure president. Affordable Care Act and the beginning of the subsidized green movement… after all, that’s how B_E got half his solar system paid for. Also probably believes that big O had a money tree in the back yard of the White House.

One point of clarification on the solar system thing.

It is subsidized, to the tune of about 30%, but it's subsidized in the same that that having a mortgage is subsidized; tax write offs.

If you took out a mortgage and did itemized deductions at any point to claim back on that interest, you have no grounds to complain... it'd be hypocritical to do so.

One could also argue (although on ideological grounds I personally wouldn't) this is 'only fair' when it's a technology trying to compete against another heavily subsidized power source:

https://www.eia.gov/analysis/requests/subsidy/pdf/subsidy.pdf

Table A5 breaks down all the credits and subsidies by generation type. An interesting read if you have a spare 5 mins. Big_E's solar is under 'End Use - Advanced energy Property Credit'. $2Bn a year, roughly.

Either way, in 2026, it doesn't really need to be subsidized to make economic sense and I'm glad the subsidies are going away. The free market will drive adoption just fine at this point.

 

[Mekaniks]

One point of clarification on the solar system thing.

It is subsidized, to the tune of about 30%, but it's subsidized in the same that that having a mortgage is subsidized; tax write offs.

If you took out a mortgage and did itemized deductions at any point to claim back on that interest, you have no grounds to complain... it'd be hypocritical to do so.

One could also argue (although on ideological grounds I personally wouldn't) this is 'only fair' when it's a technology trying to compete against another heavily subsidized power source:

https://www.eia.gov/analysis/requests/subsidy/pdf/subsidy.pdf

Table A5 breaks down all the credits and subsidies by generation type. An interesting read if you have a spare 5 mins. Big_E's solar is under 'End Use - Advanced energy Property Credit'. $2Bn a year, roughly.

Either way, in 2026, it doesn't really need to be subsidized to make economic sense and I'm glad the subsidies are going away. The free market will drive adoption just fine at this point.

Don’t forget that the petroleum industry is currently subsidized (just look at the Alaska tax code) and the petroleum industry was heavily subsidized for development back in the day.
My family had gas stations in the 1920”s that were largely government subsidized so they would stay in business…..
I don’t like the solar industry because I think they can do better, but regardless IMO the government is just repeating itself for development.

https://www.iisd.org/articles/explainer/fossil-fuel-subsidies-explained-concepts-trends

 

[WAB]

Don’t forget that the petroleum industry is currently subsidized (just look at the Alaska tax code) and the petroleum industry was heavily subsidized for development back in the day.
My family had gas stations in the 1920”s that were largely government subsidized so they would stay in business…..
I don’t like the solar industry because I think they can do better, but regardless IMO the government is just repeating itself for development.

https://www.iisd.org/articles/explainer/fossil-fuel-subsidies-explained-concepts-trends

I not sure I understand your point. Having lived in Alaska and run an oil refinery there, I wasn’t aware of any subsidies. In fact, the permanent fund dividend made it seem like the oil industry was subsidizing Alaska residency. What am I missing?

 

[Alistair]

I not sure I understand your point. Having lived in Alaska and run an oil refinery there, I wasn’t aware of any subsidies. In fact, the permanent fund dividend made it seem like the oil industry was subsidizing Alaska residency. What am I missing?

Full disclosure, this is a biased source, no doubt about it.

However, it is well referenced, and ignoring the spin in the commentary, the figures do check out (at least the ones that I bothered to spot check did).

If you have a spare 20 minutes, you might find it an interesting read.

If you are inspired to dig into the claims and find sources with opposing views, I'd be interested in them too.

https://www.americanprogress.org/article/5-hidden-ways-the-government-rigs-the-market-in-favor-of-fossil-fuels/

 

[Mekaniks]

I not sure I understand your point. Having lived in Alaska and run an oil refinery there, I wasn’t aware of any subsidies. In fact, the permanent fund dividend made it seem like the oil industry was subsidizing Alaska residency. What am I missing?

The point of my post was that government subsidies for developing industries is not new concept.

SB21 replaced Alaska ACES....to further exploration and development......I understand

As a 30 year PFD recipient of a program that has paid for my son's college education, and that is on the chopping block for future generations, I also understand......

Full disclosure, this is a biased source, no doubt about it.

However, it is well referenced, and ignoring the spin in the commentary, the figures do check out (at least the ones that I bothered to spot check did).

If you have a spare 20 minutes, you might find it an interesting read.

If you are inspired to dig into the claims and find sources with opposing views, I'd be interested in them too.

https://www.americanprogress.org/article/5-hidden-ways-the-government-rigs-the-market-in-favor-of-fossil-fuels/

Yes, that article is defiantly biased, if it can be read between the political spin.

Solar is not popular politically with conservatives for good reason. IMO zero AG land should be given up for solar farms. If the solar industry is going to grow with taxpayer subsidies, they need to do better.

I agree with your comment above regarding the free market driving adoption. Thats how it's supposed to work.....

I was simply pointing to the fact that the oil industry didn't evolve without tax payer assistance....IMO neither will any other similar industry, including solar. I am not trying to change your mind with opposing views, just stating my own....

That said, I do believe that there is a bigger picture when it comes to energy development. Look at the history of Hydro Power.... (full disclosure I grew up at Grand Coulee Dam) LOTS of Government (taxpayer) involvement....Good or bad, that how it evolved.

History of Hydropower

Humans have been harnessing water to perform work for thousands of years.

www.energy.gov

 

[spike.t]

 

[Mekaniks]

Here is a recent article I just this morning about possible new nuclear power development. Thought I would share FWIW

https://columbiainsight.org/the-return-of-nuclear-production-is-being-planned-at-hanford/

 

[Brent in Az]

It's a long video, but worth a watch. Nick is a former Green Beret, and the Virginia House of delegates.

 

[Brent in Az]

Tulsi Gabbard on the Shawn Ryan show.
She totally gets it, that Democrats are nothing but power hungry control freaks, and Godless America hating heathens.

 

[Tanks]

https://www.foxnews.com/media/presbyterian-church-faces-internal-revolt-proposing-clergy-must-monogamous-relationships

When the church decided to be inclusive I guess they did not realize how far it would go.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Why does anyone pay any attention to anything Trump says? He simply dreams bullshit up on the spur of the moment. Crazy bullshit! Any grownup person would be embarrassed to get caught lying so many times. Not Trump. Simply doesn't matter to him. Shameless.

Fact-checking Trump’s interview with NBC News’ ‘Meet the Press’

Digging into some of the president’s claims on the Iran war, the Jan. 6 riots, California’s primary elections and more.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[Wheels]

Looks like it only took a week for Los Angeles and California to fix the little problem they had of having a Republican in the runoff.

 

[Tanks]

Majority of mail-in votes are Democrats and two-thirds of registered voters are Democrats so makes sense in close races for Republicans to lose once the mail-in votes are counted.

 

[wesheltonj]

2 more screw worm cases. 1 a calf in La Salle County (county seat Cotulla) and, 2 a dog in Andrews County (county seat Andrews, north of Odessa).

 

[spike.t]

Majority of mail-in votes are Democrats and two-thirds of registered voters are Democrats so makes sense in close races for Republicans to lose once the mail-in votes are counted.

How does it work that bass numbers haven't really moved...surely hers should have bounced up as well..only the noodle one has rocketed up...surely it's out of proportion if that's the correct terminology?.....even overseas it's found strange...

 

[Tundra Tiger]

How does it work that bass numbers haven't really moved...surely hers shouldandhave bounced up..only the noodle one has rocketed up...surely it's out of proportion if that's the correct terminology?.....even overseas it's found strange...

Noodle one. Thanks for the morning belly laugh good sir.

 

[wesheltonj]

2 more screw worm cases. 1 a calf in La Salle County (county seat Cotulla) and a dog in Andrews County

 

[spike.t]

Noodle one. Thanks for the morning belly laugh good sir.

Couldn't remember her exact name....but I knew it made me think of noodles....