Politics

[Tanks]

Interesting article, I hope they are wrong.

Opinion | Will Trump Bail Out Iran’s Regime? — The Wall Street Journal

The outlines of a 60-day framework agreement suggest U.S. concessions before a nuclear deal is signed.

apple.news

 

[Rocked and Loaded]

Ghoulish.

Canadian Doctor Offers Assisted Suicide To Man Outside Tim Hortons, Personally Drives Him To End His Life

A real story from the National Post.

notthebee.com

 

[Tubby’s Canteen]

I’d like to have a politician explain how maid is socially acceptable and yet we can’t have the death penalty

 

[deewayne2003]

I’d like to have a politician explain how maid is socially acceptable and yet we can’t have the death penalty

Likewise in the US, I notice that people who are pro abortion are anti death penalty and the pro death penalty crowd are anti abortion.

Personally I see them both the same, barbaric necessities unfortunately needed in modern society.

 

[mdwest]

I see those as two completely different ideals that happen to end with the same result, but are easy to reconcile..

Abortion - the killing of a human that is completely innocent of any wrong doing

Capital Punishment - the killing of a human convicted of the worst crimes against humanity

One deserves the punishment of death (supported by most conservatives) while the other deserves no punishment at all (therefore not supported by most conservatives)

I don’t think most conservatives believe death of a human can never be warranted… they simply believe that the killing of a human that has done nothing wrong should not be allowed..

I do find it interesting when a liberal will argue that the death penalty is wrong and that an adult criminal convicted of heinous acts deserves an opportunity to be rehabilitated or at a minimum deserves a right to continued life, while a baby has no rights at all…

The most common argument I hear is that they don’t believe an unborn baby is a human, therefore you cannot violate its rights, despite a detectable heartbeat, brain waves, etc..

 

[Tubby’s Canteen]

I see those as two completely different ideals that happen to end with the same result, but are easy to reconcile..

Abortion - the killing of a human that is completely innocent of any wrong doing

Capital Punishment - the killing of a human convicted of the worst crimes against humanity

One deserves the punishment of death (supported by most conservatives) while the other deserves no punishment at all (therefore not supported by most conservatives)

I don’t think most conservatives believe death of a human can never be warranted… they simply believe that the killing of a human that has done nothing wrong should not be allowed..

I do find it interesting when a liberal will argue that the death penalty is wrong and that an adult criminal convicted of heinous acts deserves an opportunity to be rehabilitated or at a minimum deserves a right to continued life, while a baby has no rights at all…

The most common argument I hear is that they don’t believe an unborn baby is a human, therefore you cannot violate its rights, despite a detectable heartbeat, brain waves, etc..

Wasn’t that the same logic Hitler used to justify his treatment of the Jews

 

[mdwest]

Wasn’t that the same logic Hitler used to justify his treatment of the Jews

Certainly not dissimilar…

 

[Corey0372]

I see those as two completely different ideals that happen to end with the same result, but are easy to reconcile..

Abortion - the killing of a human that is completely innocent of any wrong doing

Capital Punishment - the killing of a human convicted of the worst crimes against humanity

One deserves the punishment of death (supported by most conservatives) while the other deserves no punishment at all (therefore not supported by most conservatives)

I don’t think most conservatives believe death of a human can never be warranted… they simply believe that the killing of a human that has done nothing wrong should not be allowed..

I do find it interesting when a liberal will argue that the death penalty is wrong and that an adult criminal convicted of heinous acts deserves an opportunity to be rehabilitated or at a minimum deserves a right to continued life, while a baby has no rights at all…

The most common argument I hear is that they don’t believe an unborn baby is a human, therefore you cannot violate its rights, despite a detectable heartbeat, brain waves, etc..

I hold kind of a "bleeding heart right wing" position with a lot of this stuff. I am 100% against abortion, but I also think there's always more room for improvement (as far as funding and resources, so tax dollars) in the foster care system as well as with single mothers. If I were a lawmaker for instance I would never vote to cut welfare to people have kids in the home, especially single mothers. Yes I know people abuse the system, but the benefit of the doubt goes to the kid who's not responsible for their parents' bad decisions. Improving the quality of the food in US public schools would be wonderful as well to ensure kids are getting at least getting a healthy lunch (and perhaps breakfast). I think the more we can do as a society to take away the devil's siren song of abortion as an option the better, laws and executive orders could come in handy here too.

As far as the death penalty... I don't agree with that either. I also simultaneously believe there should be FAR MORE people in jail in general, and they should be there for LONGER sentences, but that we do need to reform the prison system in the US. I think certain crimes that we currently don't give life sentences for should get life sentences without the chance of parole. For example, someone arrested for making CSAM or crimes against children should get life in prison with no chance of parole, this is a person that cannot be trusted in society ever again. I think the same thing for the person who goes into a store or home and murders someone and then robs them. People like this should spend the rest of their lives in a labor camp serving their fellow man and begging God for forgiveness.

However, I think if two 19 year old's get into a gang shootout and one of them dies in what is essentially mutual combat between consenting adults, the perp shouldn't necessarily get life without parole, let alone the death penalty. I think there's an opportunity for this person to be rehabilitated, I don't see their crime to have necessarily broken the sacred trust of a society in the same way a child abuser has. I think life with a chance of parole would be a more appropriate sentence, and I think the victims family should have a say in the parole possibility.

As far as prison reform I think El Salvador's model is a model for the world. The worst of the worse go to CECOT.... and they're never getting out as long as Bukele and the military have a say. The rest of the prison system has been completely revamped, and the prisoners are gaining real skills that will lead them into productive lives when they get out, it's not just gladiator camp anymore like it used to be and like some of our prisons are. They literally have to farm and make their own food, they have to make their own uniforms, as well as school uniforms for the kids of the country. Violence against other inmates is also not tolerated. It's a far more humane system in my opinion, while simultaneously being a much more disciplined and ordered approach. El Salvador also doesn't have the death penalty.

 

[Ray B]

@Corey0372 - It's about motivations.100 years ago the unwed birthrate in the US was very low. the only thing that keeps the unwed birthrate only 10 times what it was is the abortion rate. What changed? first among reasons was the government subsidizing single parent households. In addition the system dis-incentivized gainful employment. A better system would be to provide the "safety net" without the incentives for undesired behaviors and dis-incentives for desired behavior. the system which best accomplishes this is what Milton Friedman referred to as a Negative income tax. In short, every US citizen over 18 years of age would receive a monthly payment that would be of an amount suitable to maintain minimum standard of living. The payments for children age 0 to 17 would be pro-rated. No other subsidies or payments would be made. These payments would be made regardless of the persons income or marital status. Any person could choose to live at the minimum level or could increase his/her standard of living by seeking gainful employment. Income taxes would be deducted from earnings at a flat rate. As his/her earnings increased he/she would reach the point where the taxes paid equaled the monthly payment so it would be a zero sum- but there would be no change in the monthly payment- no penalty for having a job as is the present welfare system. Even liberals such as George McGovern embraced this system. the only differences between the conservative and liberal models is the conservatives want a stand alone while the liberal want it IN ADDITION to all the other food, rent, auto repair, healthcare and related systems as well as a larger monthly payment.

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

Just now seeing the Texas senate primary results: Paxton trumped Cornyn. I hope he can beat the kid democrat in the fall.

 

[mdwest]

He really needs to focus on motivating centrists and independents to show up at the polls and not vote for Telerico…

The only story that got told for the last year was how bad Cornyn was for Texas… and Cornyn made sure to tell everyone how bad Paxton was for Texas… neither did much to tell anyone how good they actually were or how bad Telerico is…

Let’s hope it’s not too late..

 

[RLD]

Ah Canada- the beautiful country with No Guts.

You were not saying that when we fought and died alongside Americans in Korea and Afghanistan, or when we took in thousands of your flights on 9/11.

I guess that just makes you an ungrateful turd with a short memory. Perfect Maga boy.

 

[RLD]

Likewise in the US, I notice that people who are pro abortion are anti death penalty and the pro death penalty crowd are anti abortion.

Personally I see them both the same, barbaric necessities unfortunately needed in modern society.

I am personally against abortion, but in favour of the death penalty.

To me it is a matter of choice and agency. In one circumstance a life is taken without that person having any say in the matter or any "choice." In the other, one has made a choice, or series of choices that lead to death.

I also don't support MAID, but as I have said before, as someone who supports personal liberty I am loathe to tell mentally competent people that they cannot end their own life.

 

[RLD]

@Corey0372 - It's about motivations.100 years ago the unwed birthrate in the US was very low. the only thing that keeps the unwed birthrate only 10 times what it was is the abortion rate. What changed? first among reasons was the government subsidizing single parent households. In addition the system dis-incentivized gainful employment. A better system would be to provide the "safety net" without the incentives for undesired behaviors and dis-incentives for desired behavior. the system which best accomplishes this is what Milton Friedman referred to as a Negative income tax. In short, every US citizen over 18 years of age would receive a monthly payment that would be of an amount suitable to maintain minimum standard of living. The payments for children age 0 to 17 would be pro-rated. No other subsidies or payments would be made. These payments would be made regardless of the persons income or marital status. Any person could choose to live at the minimum level or could increase his/her standard of living by seeking gainful employment. Income taxes would be deducted from earnings at a flat rate. As his/her earnings increased he/she would reach the point where the taxes paid equaled the monthly payment so it would be a zero sum- but there would be no change in the monthly payment- no penalty for having a job as is the present welfare system. Even liberals such as George McGovern embraced this system. the only differences between the conservative and liberal models is the conservatives want a stand alone while the liberal want it IN ADDITION to all the other food, rent, auto repair, healthcare and related systems as well as a larger monthly payment.

To be fair the rate of unwed births is not entirely economically driven.

There have been a ton of social changes that move the needle as well. The decline of shotgun weddings, the decline of marriage in general, the change in unwed demographics (from being primarily teens to now women in their 20's and 30's).

But while the unwed birthrates are indeed up, overall birthrates are way down. Way down. All around the world in fact.

What you are suggesting sounds like a universal basic income plan, or guaranteed basic income plan. They have been tried in a number of places around the world with pretty good results, although strangely the results have been less effective in the United States.

 

[roverandbrew]

You were not saying that when we fought and died alongside Americans in Korea and Afghanistan, or when we took in thousands of your flights on 9/11.

I guess that just makes you an ungrateful turd with a short memory. Perfect Maga boy.

I worked along side CANSOF in 2007 in Kandahar. Absolutely great men. I was grateful to have them on a QRF we needed in the city. With that in mind I want to challenge a narrative I am over hearing. Did Canada, UK, Australia and others "help" the United States fight a GLOBAL extremist organization for our good or did you do it to protect your citizens. If I recall AQ despised the "West". Their hatred was not limited to the US. Maybe our country would have less national debt if we did not have to fund an ill-prepared coalition to protect themselves from an emerging GLOBAL threat. We can flip the script on who has supporting who in the relationship.

 

[mdwest]

I hold kind of a "bleeding heart right wing" position with a lot of this stuff. I am 100% against abortion, but I also think there's always more room for improvement (as far as funding and resources, so tax dollars) in the foster care system as well as with single mothers. If I were a lawmaker for instance I would never vote to cut welfare to people have kids in the home, especially single mothers. Yes I know people abuse the system, but the benefit of the doubt goes to the kid who's not responsible for their parents' bad decisions. Improving the quality of the food in US public schools would be wonderful as well to ensure kids are getting at least getting a healthy lunch (and perhaps breakfast). I think the more we can do as a society to take away the devil's siren song of abortion as an option the better, laws and executive orders could come in handy here too.

As far as the death penalty... I don't agree with that either. I also simultaneously believe there should be FAR MORE people in jail in general, and they should be there for LONGER sentences, but that we do need to reform the prison system in the US. I think certain crimes that we currently don't give life sentences for should get life sentences without the chance of parole. For example, someone arrested for making CSAM or crimes against children should get life in prison with no chance of parole, this is a person that cannot be trusted in society ever again. I think the same thing for the person who goes into a store or home and murders someone and then robs them. People like this should spend the rest of their lives in a labor camp serving their fellow man and begging God for forgiveness.

However, I think if two 19 year old's get into a gang shootout and one of them dies in what is essentially mutual combat between consenting adults, the perp shouldn't necessarily get life without parole, let alone the death penalty. I think there's an opportunity for this person to be rehabilitated, I don't see their crime to have necessarily broken the sacred trust of a society in the same way a child abuser has. I think life with a chance of parole would be a more appropriate sentence, and I think the victims family should have a say in the parole possibility.

As far as prison reform I think El Salvador's model is a model for the world. The worst of the worse go to CECOT.... and they're never getting out as long as Bukele and the military have a say. The rest of the prison system has been completely revamped, and the prisoners are gaining real skills that will lead them into productive lives when they get out, it's not just gladiator camp anymore like it used to be and like some of our prisons are. They literally have to farm and make their own food, they have to make their own uniforms, as well as school uniforms for the kids of the country. Violence against other inmates is also not tolerated. It's a far more humane system in my opinion, while simultaneously being a much more disciplined and ordered approach. El Salvador also doesn't have the death penalty.

While I do support capital punishment, you and I are pretty much in lock step agreement on everything else.. Even to the point that I dont think that all murderers should automatically get the death penalty.. A 20 year old drug addict raping and killing an 80 year old woman? Absolutely expedite the process and rid the earth of him... not only to make the world a safer and better place.. but also to send a very clear message to any other person that would consider similar behaviors..

but a 19 year old gang banger in the same situation you describe? maybe not (I think we'd have to have much more detail of the circumstances.. unfortuneately there are a lot of 19 year old gang banging murderers that arent on their first felony offense when they kill a rival gang member... they've been frequent flyers of the juvie system and the adult jails since their pre-teen years and continue to escalate)... I am open to considering a life sentance, or even a very long sentance but possibility of parole under the right circumstances and conditions..

The evidence is available to anyone willing to actually look at it... tougher prisons and tougher courts lead to safer streets and less crime.. there is a reason that Portland, Oregon was considered one of the safest cities in the US in the 1980's, and now has one of the worst overall crime rates in the country today.. The FBI rated Portland the 2nd worst city in the US last year for crime with a crime rate 198% higher than the national average..

The only city thats worse is Memphis.. the city I was a cop in for 10 years.. with a crime rate 343% higher than the national average..

 

[Tubby’s Canteen]

I worked along side CANSOF in 2007 in Kandahar. Absolutely great men. I was grateful to have them on a QRF we needed in the city. With that in mind I want to challenge a narrative I am over hearing. Did Canada, UK, Australia and others "help" the United States fight a GLOBAL extremist organization for our good or did you do it to protect your citizens. If I recall AQ despised the "West". Their hatred was not limited to the US. Maybe our country would have less national debt if we did not have to fund an ill-prepared coalition to protect themselves from an emerging GLOBAL threat.

I don’t disagree with your point about the Middle East being the wests problem not necessarily just the americas. That being said this all stems from a post calling Canadians gutless so let’s try another example.

Were the 20-40 thousand Canadians who volunteered to fight for America during Vietnam gutless while about an equal number of your countryman chose to fleet to Canada and hide out from there draft duties?

 

[mdwest]

I worked along side CANSOF in 2007 in Kandahar. Absolutely great men. I was grateful to have them on a QRF we needed in the city. With that in mind I want to challenge a narrative I am over hearing. Did Canada, UK, Australia and others "help" the United States fight a GLOBAL extremist organization for our good or did you do it to protect your citizens. If I recall AQ despised the "West". Their hatred was not limited to the US.

We've had that discussions a couple of times prior.. the facts just convieniently get ignored sometimes when they dont support an argument..

24 Canadians died on 9/11

Al Queda plotted NUMEROUS times to attack Canada and even had a recruitment cell operating out of a mosque in Montreal that was busted when US inteligence assisted Canada in finding the cell.

Canada (and the European members of NATO) voted yes to the Article 5 invocation because it was in their national interest to do so. They were helping themselves. Al Queda was a known global threat and the globe agreed they needed to be taken out.. Not only did every single NATO country participate in the war in Afghanistan, but 25 non NATO nations put boots on the grond in Afghanistan in an effort to rid the world of the cancer that called itself Al Queda.. In addition to that countries that are known US advasaries like Russia assisted passively (no troops on the ground) by allowing combatant forces to use their air space, assisted with logistical needs, etc..

 

[roverandbrew]

I don’t disagree with your point about the Middle East being the wests problem not necessarily just the americas. That being said this all stems from a post calling Canadians gutless so let’s try another example.

Were the 20-40 thousand Canadians who volunteered to fight for America during Vietnam gutless while about an equal number of your countryman chose to fleet to Canada and hide out from there draft duties?

They were great citizens of their country and absolutely answered the call to fight communism. Again did they fight for America or to stop the spread of communism globally?

 

[mdwest]

I don’t disagree with your point about the Middle East being the wests problem not necessarily just the americas. That being said this all stems from a post calling Canadians gutless so let’s try another example.

Were the 20-40 thousand Canadians who volunteered to fight for America during Vietnam gutless while about an equal number of your countryman chose to fleet to Canada and hide out from there draft duties?

I dont think any US military personnel that fought alongside Canadian personnel EVER would consider them "gutless"..

If they fought alongside them in the last 20 years they might think (rightfully so) that their Canadian counterparts were ill equipped, lacked adequate training, and lacked good leadership at the highest levels..

But they are far from gutless.. If anything I look at Canadian forces much like I look at our own US Marine Corps...

They make due with less than ideal gear, shitty budgets, interfering politicians, etc.. and do the job exceptionally well under the circumstances..

The Devils Brigade, the 1st Special Services Force, was a combined US-Canadian commando unit that fought in WW2. They were considered some of the most fierce and capable people on the planet at the time.. modern US Special Forces trace their lineage back to the Devils Brigade.. The relationship between our SOF and Canadas SOF literally date back to the origins of SOF in both countries..

The only people that I think might believe Canadas military is gutless would be people that never served alongside Canadians..

As a rule, Canada turns out some excellent soldiers.. despite their country shitting on them as a matter of routine..