Politics

[wesheltonj]

I have sincere doubts that Iran is/was putting together a nuclear device at this point.

I don't. Growing up, I had a friend who's father worked in the Nuclear Department of Southwest Research Institute. He said it's rather easy to make a nuclear bomb. Iran most likely has that material squirreled away all over Iran.

In case you are not familiar with SwRI see below:

Southwest Research Institute - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[LivingTheDream]

The enrichment program was certainly bombed hard, but the material they already had left was enough to build several warheads. Most news networks have covered this.

It is interesting to me, that the same people who were arguing that Trump didnt destroy their nuclear program because the Iranians were able to move the enriched uranium, are same people saying Trump is lying that that the Iranians didnt have the materials to make a nuclear weapon.

I think two things could be true at the same time. We hit their nuclear sites, and at the time they were destroyed, but I think a lot of us were wondering what happen to the enriched uranium especially when we saw satellite images with lots of trucks at those sites. In fact this was one of the major pushbucks to the narrative that their program was destroyed, especially with various Intel reports saying they were set back months not years.

I also read (and cant find the reference) that there was a domestic research center or reactor, but essentially a site that wasnt hit, and it turns out that Iran was not being honest with what it was doing with that site (shocking I know).

So maybe no one was lying, maybe as more Intel came around, the underlying facts changed, maybe Iran started to do repairs and it wasnt as bad as first thought. What is known is the Iranian negotiators said they could make 10 to 12 bombs based on the enriched uranium they have now. Not sure if anyone knows but maybe this was a bluff. Maybe this is what they said to John Kerry to get the Iranian Nuclear Deal through. I dont believe it is as clear or as simple as one would think.

But saying the operation is a failure or forever war, or anything of the sort when we have sunk more military ships than we have had casualties 3 weeks into it, and how you are worried about paying more for gasoline looks extremely weak and short sighted.

 

[Newboomer]

View attachment 753057

And the USA has huge stockpile of anti supreme leader material.

 

[Aaron N]

You can buddy up with Pondoro, and add this to the dust bin of stupid comments.

Facts are stupid comments?

 

[Altitude sickness]

Anyone old enough to remember. There was a brief window of opportunity in the 1990s to stop North Korea from building Nuclear weapons.

Pakistan and Russia had been helping N.K. For decades but when negotiations with the U.S. failed. N.K. Withdrew and now holds the rest of the world under its evil thumb.

The fatalist Iranians holding Nuke Weapons would actually be much more destabilizing, cataclysmic and apocalyptic than N.Korea having them.

 

[VertigoBE]

Anyone old enough to remember. There was a brief window of opportunity in the 1990s to stop North Korea from building Nuclear weapons.

Pakistan and Russia had been helping N.K. For decades but when negotiations with the U.S. failed. N.K. Withdrew and now holds the rest of the world under its evil thumb.

The fatalist Iranians holding Nuke Weapons would actually be much more destabilizing, cataclysmic and apocalyptic than N.Korea having them.

I don't think I would agree with the statement that "North Korea holds the rest of the world under its evil thumb".

I think Rocketman can barely keep his own citizenry under his thumb, let alone any neighbouring countries.

 

[RLD]

I’ve been debating this post for a while now because I’m sure I will be roasted, but here it goes.

Without using the phrase “gods chosen people” tell me why the west should care so deeply about Israel?

-They were a group of people who had spread across the world and hadn’t had their own nation since 580ish BCE. And I mean a nation where they had full autonomy. If we are so concerned about displaced people’s, we aren’t handing the native Americans the keys tot he continent.

-“We worship the same god” Well so does Islam

-There’s the holocaust guilt, but there have been countless genocides before, and since the war without care

-It’s not like the Jews have ever been overly popular people in western society

-I understand the strategic importance of having an ally in the Middle East, but wouldn’t Ukraine be equally an important ally right now as its ground zero in keeping Russia in check?

-The UN HAD to understand the never ending shit storm that creating Israel would bring on the region, no?

And no, I don’t hate Israel, I just don’t care about it, and I don’t understand why I’m supposed to. And I don’t understand why we have to handle them with white gloves, and even the most insignificant slight is anti-Semitic.

Not trying to start a firestorm, just looking for a rational explanation.

Because they are a very functional (if imperfect) democracy with a very healthy economy, a very strong military and generally friendly to western interests in a critical neighbourhood of the world generally filled with undemocratic states who are less stable than they are. Even an apparently staunch ally like Saudi has been exporting some pretty dangerous ideas and lots of money to terrorist organizations that are hostile to the western way of life.

And at an even more perhaps cynical level I support the existence of Israel as a jewish state because. historically, around the world, jews have suffered discrimination and death on a significant scale for coming up on 2000 years. The existence of the state of Israel offers a homeland for a badly persecuted people and, to my mind, reduces the chances of further violence against jews generally across the globe.

Now it is true that the existence and actions of Israel may have galvanized some parts of its neighbours populations against it, and caused some violence, overall I think the existence of Israel had reduced violence world wide, particularly against a historically persecuted group.

So, on balance, I think Israel is a positive for the world.

And to your comment that "even the most insignificant slight is anti-Semitic", welcome to the modern world. Everyone has a thin skin and wants to win the oppression olympics. Israel deserves their shot at the medal as much as anyone.

 

[mdwest]

Trump says he might have 'forced Israel's hand' in Iran strike decision as critics question war powers

President Donald Trump claimed Iran's supreme leader was planning to attack first, justifying joint U.S.-Israel strikes against the country without congressional approval.

www.foxnews.com

Now he claim that he believed Iran "would attack first.." With what..? Where..?

Does he really think the world is buying his crap..?

At least he admits that Israel did not try to force an attack..it was the other way around.

Iran has attacked first NUMEROUS times... perhaps you should learn to use google...

In fact there are more than 180 documented "first" attacks on the US by Iran since 1979..

Its sorta what they do... routinely.. and often..

Id guess based on your asinine assessment of Israels response to Oct 7th, that you think each time Iran launches a rocket at US troops in Syria, you think the only appropriate response should be measured and minor...

Perhaps you are so blinded by your derangement that you cant be bothered to actually know anything you talk about?

Im convinced youre not a troll like others think... I honestly just think youre willfully dumber than a bag of hammers and blinded by liberal douchebaggery..

 

[Aaron N]

Because they are a very functional (if imperfect) democracy with a very healthy economy, a very strong military and generally friendly to western interests in a critical neighbourhood of the world generally filled with undemocratic states who are less stable than they are. Even an apparently staunch ally like Saudi has been exporting some pretty dangerous ideas and lots of money to terrorist organizations that are hostile to the western way of life.

And at an even more perhaps cynical level I support the existence of Israel as a jewish state because. historically, around the world, jews have suffered discrimination and death on a significant scale for coming up on 2000 years. The existence of the state of Israel offers a homeland for a badly persecuted people and, to my mind, reduces the chances of further violence against jews generally across the globe.

Now it is true that the existence and actions of Israel may have galvanized some parts of its neighbours populations against it, and caused some violence, overall I think the existence of Israel had reduced violence world wide, particularly against a historically persecuted group.

So, on balance, I think Israel is a positive for the world.

And to your comment that "even the most insignificant slight is anti-Semitic", welcome to the modern world. Everyone has a thin skin and wants to win the oppression olympics. Israel deserves their shot at the medal as much as anyone.

I get why they are an ally, I just don’t get why it seems like they can do no wrong, and they need to be put on a pedestal. Unless they do in-fact control the world, then it all makes sense.

Maybe too many Barbra Kay opinion pieces in the NP have jaded me.

 

[RLD]

Unless I missed it, but seems like the Pope was crickets when the IRCG was killing thousands of civilian Iranian protestors yet has suddenly become vocal calling the Israeli and US strikes on Iran’s military capability and the elimination of its top leadership, “atrocious violence”. I don’t recall him calling for a “ceasefire” when Iran was gunning down thousands of its own citizens. I don’t recall him saying much of anything. Or the MSM selectively broadcasts what it wants to about what the Pope says depending on how it fits its socialist/left/Dem political agenda. What’s up with all that?

Well, it appears you missed it.

The Pope expressed concern (the traditional phrase) over both the repression and the deaths in Iran during that crackdown.

And the Vatican secretary of state did as well:

"Cardinal Pietro Parolin, the Vatican Secretary of State, remarked: "I wonder how it is possible to attack one's own people, to the point of causing so many deaths"

 

[mdwest]

I get why they are an ally, I just don’t get why it seems like they can do no wrong, and they need to be put on a pedestal. Unless they do in-fact control the world, then it all makes sense.

Maybe too many Barbra Kay opinion pieces in the NP have jaded me.

If the people youre talking to believe they can do no wrong or that they are on a pedestal.. sincerely, youre talking to the wrong people..

I know a lot of very staunchly pro-Israel people..

But I dont know anyone that thinks they are necessarily a close friend or worthy of pedestal placement..

I myself am pro Israel.. for US strategic reasons (economic and military mostly)... But.. I trust them about as much as I trust the EU...

Which is to say I dont trust them at all.. I think every single move has to be watched closely.. as they will always act in their own self interest (as most nations should, and do).. and they will screw over their friends in a heartbeat and not lose a wink of sleep over it (which many nations wont do)..

 

[RLD]

BCE is just another attempt to control the narrative by the woke left, and push the world towards secularism. I will continue to use BC & AD.

You are welcome to use what you want, and I have no dog in this fight, but surely it is obvious how the use of AD in particular, would be nonsensical to someone who does not accept Jesus as Lord, and offensive to some who follows some other religion?

Just because you are Christian, do you really expect the whole world to accept your worldview? Do you reject the separation of church and state?

The great thing about C.E. and B.C.E. is it allows academics and professionals in cultures that are not Christian to have interchanges with the Christian west based on our calendars (not theirs which are often quite different) without having to use concepts they don't accept.

You should be aware that the term Common Era was used long before anyone even conceived the term "woke."

 

[RLD]

I get why they are an ally, I just don’t get why it seems like they can do no wrong, and they need to be put on a pedestal. Unless they do in-fact control the world, then it all makes sense.

Maybe too many Barbra Kay opinion pieces in the NP have jaded me.

I am pretty confident they don't control the world. Maybe not even Hollywood.

There are plenty of critiques of Israeli policy both inside and outside of Israel. You apparently just arn't aware of them.

 

[Aaron N]

You are welcome to use what you want, and I have no dog in this fight, but surely it is obvious how the use of AD in particular, would be nonsensical to someone who does not accept Jesus as Lord, and offensive to some who follows some other religion?

Just because you are Christian, do you really expect the whole world to accept your worldview? Do you reject the separation of church and state?

The great thing about C.E. and B.C.E. is it allows academics and professionals in cultures that are not Christian to have interchanges with the Christian west based on our calendars (not theirs which are often quite different) without having to use concepts they don't accept.

You should be aware that the term Common Era was used long before anyone even conceived the term "woke."

You can also be a non-Christian, and still agree that Jesus was a living historical figure.

 

[PARA45]

Since 9/11 549 Americans have died in terror attacks on US soil. Prior to 9/11 the number is much higher. The overwhelming majority of those attacks were conducted by Islamic jihadists.

When the Boston marathon bomb went off.. did you just shrug your shoulders?

Or did you pay enough attention to know about the San Bernardino attack in 2015 where 14 people were killed?

How about the New Orleans truck attack in 2025 that killed 14?

Perhaps you think the Ft Hood terror attack doesn’t count because it happened on a military base (not everyone that died was in the military… one was an unborn baby)..

Then let’s think about Europe for a moment…

The Madrid train bombings…193 killed.. almost 2000 injured..

London bombings… 56 killed… 784 injured…

Charlie Hebdo attacks in France.. 20 killed..56 injured..

Nov 2015 Paris attacks 137 killed 417 injured

2016 Brussels bombing… 35 killed

Niece France … 87 killed

How about the Berlin Christmas Market? 13 killed..

Manchester bombing.. 23 killed.. 250 injured..

Barcelona attacks.. 24 killed…152 injured…

All Islamist extremism attacks…


No… no one just shrugs their shoulders and doesn’t care about 200 children dying… that’s a preposterous and frankly disingenuous statement that makes you look like a screaming crying fool… I can assure you that it does nothing to help you gain any respect or make anyone care about your positions or concerns…

It is a very unfortunate fact that in war, people die.. often innocent people die… that is a simple and easy to understand truth…

Another fact is that the US goes well out of its way to avoid those sort of mishaps and considering the amount of ordnance that’s been dropped so far, only having one account at this point is actually a blessing… it could be a lot worse… if another country with less intelligence and less military capability were conducting the attacks it would be without a doubt much worse…

And yet another fact… if you don’t want to be attacked… dont push your luck for 47 years with a global superpower… 47 years of state sponsored terrorism and proxy wars conducted by Iran I think is enough… and.. it would appear that most of the world agrees…

Regarding your reoccurring tripe over $1b a day being spent… it’s our money… your country isn’t spending a dime…

Should we all start shouting and raising hell about all the instance social welfare bullshit your country spends its money on? Or do you think that’s your business, and not ours?

Why exactly would you think the US cares at all about your opinion on how it spends money?

If your truthful with yourself… your country couldn’t afford $1b a day… the US can… the math is simple..

The US spent roughly $300m per day in Afghanistan for 20 years… we spent $2.4 trillion for the duration in Iraq…

Our economy can sustain $1b a day for a very long time… if we determine ridding the world of the problem of Iranian terrorism and nuclear pursuit is in our strategic interest… it’s actually a pretty small price to pay in the scope of things…

And… there’s no indication this will be a long war… most are predicting it’s over in a few weeks… so… $1b a day becomes even less consequential..

I’m a little behind reading the Politics thread. Here is to @mdwest, for this reply.

 

[Tundra Tiger]

I’m a little behind reading the Politics thread. Here is to @mdwest, for this reply.

A "little behind"? Some days all that takes is 17 minutes...

 

[shootist~]

I thought the Irani nuclear program was crushed last summer..? Who is fooling who here..?

These are the guys you want the world, especially the USA, to leave in power. How do you even sleep at night?

https://twitter.com/x/status/2033228407299842520

 

[RLD]

You can also be a non-Christian, and still agree that Jesus was a living historical figure.

Absolutely, and by using BC and CE they tacitly do.

However A.D. translates to "in the year of our Lord, and is shorthand for "the year of our Lord, Jesus Christ."

The term A.D. includes the assumption Christ was Lord. The term C.E. does not.

Many people assume A.D. means "after death", it doesn't. The math doesn't work

 

[mdwest]

You can also be a non-Christian, and still agree that Jesus was a living historical figure.

Its incredibly hard to deny that Jesus was a living historical figure.. he is not only acknowledged by the Christian faith, but also by the Jewish faith and the Muslim faith.. and there are NUMEROUS historical documents that are NOT tied to any faith that speak to his existence.. I dont think anyone that is even remotely educated or capable of reading history can deny that there was a man that walked the earth in the first century that was named Jesus that was a religious leader that was ultimately executed by the Romans.. there are far too many validated and verified historical documents that prove it..

The only question is.. was he God? a prophet? a very wise and learned Rabbi? or just some guy that convinced others to follow him?

Flavious Josephus, a Jewish historian, speaks about Jesus twice in his historical account Jewish Antiquities. He talks about the crucifixion and that Jesus was a "wise" man capable of "surprising deeds"..

Tacitus, a Roman historian wrote in his Annals that Jesus was executed by Pontius Pilate during Tiberious's reign..

Suetonieus, another Roman historian wrote about disturbances happening in Rome that were caused by followers of Jesus after his crucifixion

Thallus a greco-roman historian wrote about the day of Jesus' crucifixion.. etc..

None of these people early Christians.. they were all historians that were simply documenting things happening in their time, and the impacts of those happenings on Rome, the middle east, and the rest of the world..

While no actual documents drafted or written by Pontius Pilate are known to exist (havent been found), there are several accounts from others that were close to Pilate that have documented the impact of the trial and execution of Jesus on Pilate that confirm the trial and execution happened.

 

[Altitude sickness]

I don't think I would agree with the statement that "North Korea holds the rest of the world under its evil thumb".

I think Rocketman can barely keep his own citizenry under his thumb, let alone any neighbouring countries.

Respectfully, until Trump got elected. every US President, capitulated and appeased North Korea under threat of nuclear weapons.

And it was very effective. Every administration gave them what they wanted in aid every time they started launching a few rockets over South Korea or Japan.

My point was, it’s much easier to stop it in advance than deal with it afterwards

Obama told Trump that North Korea was most urgent problem he’d face: report

Former President Barack Obama warned President Trump as he left office that North Korea would be “the most urgent problem” he would face, the New York Times reported Saturday.The report d…

thehill.com