Politics

[Wheels]

you dont really believe it was a Colombian commando that killed Pablo do you? (FWIW, I've met the guy that pulled the trigger.. he wasnt born in latin america).. I can assure you that was an offensive operation, led by a group of US military personnel (although Colombians were present) that was NOT conducted under Title 10..

Surprised someone hasn’t gone back through photos and said since he was wearing a red shirt he is obviously MAGA so he needs charged with war crimes

 

[roverandbrew]

Your view on the law of war is novel. Physically under control has never been an element of hors de combat to my knowledge.

Have you worked in an operational JOC or strike cell within the last 25 years? Where is your wisdom coming from? Basic Training? I worked with CANSOF in Kandahar and it was their SOP also. Get on YouTube and you will see re-attacks a quite common practice since 2001 for all countries involved. ALL LEGAL and ALL with a JAG present.

 

[Corey0372]

your speculation that every JAG officer would agree with you is without a doubt 100% wrong.. as literally teams of JAG officers (to include the fleet JAG, the SOCOM JAG, the JTF JAG, and several others that are likely O5's and O6's and above with anywhere from 20-30 years of JAG experience) that have reviewed the policies, procedures, TTP's, the individual CONOP, and everything else involved extensively before this series of strikes ever started.. and you can guarantee theyve been re-reviewing ever since due to the media attention and democrat congressmen calling into question the events after the fact...

There was almost certainly a JAG physically present and watching the feed during the strikes. The time between follow on strikes was probably waiting to see if the guys would expire on their own and ensuring legality for the follow on engagement. People are really making this whole thing more complicated than it needs to be.... like do they really think these boats are just being spotted by FLIR and engaged bc there's barrels on board? Do people not understand we probably knew the exact time that thing left the dock? Or perhaps even where its been the last 6 months? Maybe even the actual ID of the guys on it?

Nah.... we're probably just flying around shooting random boats in the Caribbean. Careful fishing out there boys!

If it were a bad shoot the videos probably would have came out on wikileaks, not posted to X by official govt accounts.

 

[mdwest]

People are really making this whole thing more complicated than it needs to be.... like do they really think these boats are just being spotted by FLIR and engaged bc there's barrels on board? Do people not understand we probably knew the exact time that thing left the dock? Or perhaps even where its been the last 6 months? Maybe even the actual ID of the guys on it?

Nah.... we're probably just flying around shooting random boats in the Caribbean. Careful fishing out there boys!

Im trying really hard not to say the obvious things out loud that we all know shouldnt be said at all lol...

there is a whole lot more going on than Rand Paul and CNN is talking about...

and its a whole lot simpler than people uninformed about how all of this stuff works understand...

the whole legality argument is moot.. dozens upon dozens of attorneys that specialize in EXACTLY THIS SORT OF THING have gone over every possible detail a hundred times.. LONG before the first hellfire ever got released..

If anyone has ever been on a SOF related mission (although these are clearly drone strikes and not SOF.. the parallels are still there) in the last 25 years knows the pain associated with getting approvals to do just about anything.. which includes having everyone under the sun put their signature on the line before the first magazine gets a round loaded into it...

If there werent at least 30 power point slides reviewed by at least 10 people all at the rank of O5 and above, along with a dozen or more GS15's and a couple of SES, before the reaper ever got fueled, I'll eat my hat..

 

[DMHolliday]

Would posting a pic of Pablo's last stand on a rooftop be in poor taste? I would not want RLD to feel the need to contact the ICC lol.

It is truly unbelievable given the depth, breath and scope of the membership of this forum in particular matters, the offered information, NOT OPINION, but fact based on personal involvement, is just ignored.

 

[Corey0372]

If there werent at least 30 power point slides reviewed by at least 10 people

30????? That's just actions on right?

You wanna get out the door or not??!! haha

 

[Corey0372]

There's a lot left out of this video from late in the war in Afghanistan, (like how they found the guys) but its sort of a glimpse of these types of strikes. The Caribbean strikes ARE a different set of circumstances, but it's obvious you don't need the SecDef to approve every bomb that leaves the rails.

People also should also remember that Tren de Aragua was officially labeled a terrorist organization this year as well, so if these guys on the boats are affiliated with them (probably) they are not lawful combatants in the first place.

 

[Wheels]

look for that to be a MAJOR talking point through the mid terms if the ruling comes back the way Trump wants it to... the D's will absolutely attempt to make that their rallying cry..

It would definitely be a major talking point in the election if an opinion comes out in July that frames the 14th Amendment as applying to slaves, which it did, and not as some all encompassing statement.

It probably helps Republicans in R+ States/Districts and helps Democrats in D+ States and districts. Overall probably a slight + for Republicans subject to how the redistricting in States goes.

 

[Wheels]

A question and I hope it comes across as sincere, because it is.

If President Trump is so against narco-traffickers (as we all should be), what is the rationale for pardoning the former president of Honduras, who is serving a legitimate and much deserved sentence in a US jail?

Roger Stone isn’t my go to source on anything but he probably knows a lot more about this case and the pardon than I do.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1997039441404481720

 

[Wheels]

Roger Stone isn’t my go to source on anything but he probably knows a lot more about this case and the pardon than I do.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1997039441404481720

Not sure why this comes out in Spanish. When I click on the X feed it changes to English.

 

[Brent in Az]

Looks like SCOTUS has just accepted a birthright citizenship case docketed for February. It will be interesting to see how they interpret the 14th amendment.

The fact they took the case may be telling in how the 14th is interpreted.

That will have Dem's foaming at the mouth like Roe v. Wade being overturned.
They don't want to lose the possible anchor baby votes.

 

[Mountainshadows]

It is truly unbelievable given the depth, breath and scope of the membership of this forum in particular matters, the offered information, NOT OPINION, but fact based on personal involvement, is just ignored.

I have to echo this. There is not telling how many years of US Military experience that have gave the explanation for this in the past few pages of this thread, yet this guy continues down the same path. But, maybe he served for 40 years from senior level down to grunt level in the US Military and everyone else is just dumb and wrong.......hmmmm...very Frostbite type antics.
I've not seen him tell us he has operated in a SOF unit nor have I seen where he has said he operated in a military unit conducting multi-lateral operations with other federal agencies.
I hazard to guess that it's just he refuses to acknowledge his path my be wrong. I would suggest there is no reason to continue to discuss this with him.

 

[Brent in Az]

Thank God, for big favors.

 

[Hunt anything]

@Brent in Az , we can only hope!!!

 

[RLD]

im probably at 50/50 - total toss up on that one... the court is now "conservative".... but either Roberts or Coney Barret (or both) could go the other direction on this one..

I'd pick something else to bet on... I dont think anyones money is safe on this ruling..

We almost handicap it the same way. The three liberals are sure no votes. I think Robert’s is a no, and Comey Barrett recently made comments in a recent interview that make her sound like a no. I am not sure about Gosrch either.

 

[RLD]

Whether or not the government approves of something absolutely makes it legal for the citizens of that government.. if the international courts want to enter into the fray, let them.. that will be a jovial endeavor on its best day..

Once again, Reagan declared the "war on drugs".. this has been going on for 40 years.. it is nothing new at all... if you want to prosecute the admiral, hegseth, or trump, go on and start issuing warrants and subpoenas tied to thousands of people, tens of thousands of individual missions, dozens of programs that span decades of time..

How the administration "sees" things is inconsequential.. Trump in particular is well known for misspeaking or saying things that arent factual or correct..

what matters is what is real.. title 10 allows the US military to monitor and detect.. under title 10 any interdiction, arrests, etc conducted by the US military require the involvement of non DOD personnel (typically the coast guard.. but also often the DEA and other agencies.. occasionally agencies within the intelligence community under title 50).. the non DOD personnel dont have to pull the trigger.. but they do have to be involved and..

if you want to make the title 10 argument, then NONE of the strikes would be legal.. the follow on strike on the guys on the water would be irrelevant.. the initial attack wouldnt be legal to begin with...

how much do you want to bet that there are multiple law enforcement agencies with representation embedded in the task force as well as DIA, CIA, NSA, and other intel agencies that is interdicting these boats? Title 10 is not the only title they have available to them to work under..

the "war on drugs" has been a law enforcement operation since October of 1982 when Reagan declared it.. it wasnt a military "war" in 82 and wasnt bound by the international law of armed conflict then.. and its not now..

you dont really believe it was a Colombian commando that killed Pablo do you? (FWIW, I've met the guy that pulled the trigger.. he wasnt born in latin america).. I can assure you that was an offensive operation, led by a group of US military personnel (although Colombians were present) that was NOT conducted under Title 10..

There are far more ways to skin a cat using US military personnel than just title 10... much of what went on in Syria for years was NOT title 10.. but that sure looked a whole lot like a DoD operation too..

and again.. if the Hague/ICC/ICJ thinks differently... let them come... that should be worth at least 2 bags of popcorn..

I am not ms koi g the Title 10 argument the administration has put it in writing.

This has nothing to do with Trump off the cuff comments, it was a prepared statement Tom the press office.

So Watergate and Iran Contra were legal from your view?

 

[mdwest]

We almost handicap it the same way. The three liberals are sure no votes. I think Robert’s is a no, and Comey Barrett recently made comments in a recent interview that make her sound like a no. I am not sure about Gosrch either.

I hadn’t though about gorsch.. but he’s definitely a potential no… I think he’ll lean “yes”… but he could definitely swing the other way…

 

[Brent in Az]

 

[mdwest]

I am not ms koi g the Title 10 argument the administration has put it in writing.

This has nothing to do with Trump off the cuff comments, it was a prepared statement Tom the press office.

So Watergate and Iran Contra were legal from your view?

A prepared statement from an asst press secretary doesn’t necessarily mean it’s correct either..

A known illegal order such as watergate is completely different and a red herring argument…

Again, THOUSANDS of people have been involved in these exact same activities for 40+ years… these exact same activities have been reviewed and approved by 8 administrations… attorneys from DOJ, DHS, DOS, DOD, the national security apparatus and the intelligence communities have been deeply involved in every operation dating as far back as SNOWCAP… they are reviewing, providing counsel, and signing off on every single CONOP and every individual mission…

You’re falling for bullshit narrative being provided by left wing media and left wing politicians… it really is that simple…

 

[Rocked and Loaded]