Politics

[Brent in Az]

There should be a law, that no taxes or tariffs will be due or payable to the federal government during a shutdown.

 

[Red Leg]

Worth watching. If you follow any social media other than this site it is full of the economic woes of the millennial generations in comparison to Boomers. This is a healthy dose of economic reality that no one who needs it will see.

 

[deewayne2003]

Worth watching. If you follow any social media other than site it is full of the economic woes of the millennial generations in comparison to Boomers. This is a healthy dose of economic reality that no one who needs it will see.

I guess I'm one of those people who needed to watch it, however after watching it my honest opinion is that it's on a news outlet made by boomers for boomers and the content essentially comes down to a big clap and cheer session for boomers.

The most important thing that they never mentioned was purchasing power......

1986 the minimum wages was $3.10hr and to have the same purchasing power today you need to make $18.00hr; the average person making $18.00hr is 24 yo with a college degree; so when you hear

"nobody wants to work anymore!... I'm offering $20hr for (insert skilled trade) and nobody wants it!"

Your actually hearing someone complain that they cannot hire skilled labor for the same rate as they were making at 17yo with 1 year experience at the local McDonalds.

They mention that there are bigger and nicer homes - this is true because no homes are built in the $170K range which adjusted for inflation should be the cost of a 3 bedroom, instead of the $430K+ average 3 bedroom we are looking at.

While they did touch on the difference in luxury costs, such as TV, air travel, ect - those luxuries have become much more affordable while things such as houses have not.

 

[Tanks]

The most important thing that they never mentioned was purchasing power......

Actually, they did...

They mention that there are bigger and nicer homes - this is true because no homes are built in the $170K range which adjusted for inflation should be the cost of a 3 bedroom, instead of the $430K+ average 3 bedroom we are looking at.

Do 3-bedroom 1,400 sq. ft homes with a single bathroom even get built today? Also, there are other external factors, population explosion meant that land the homes are built on are much more expensive.

A friend of mine finally sold his home that he had inherited from his grandparents. It was on a double lot in West University, TX (where Rice University is, a little spot within Houston). His grandparents had paid $8K for it many decades ago. He sold it for millions as a teardown. He is moving to Costa Rica to retire.

 

[Altitude sickness]

Worth watching. If you follow any social media other than this site it is full of the economic woes of the millennial generations in comparison to Boomers. This is a healthy dose of economic reality that no one who needs it will see.

This whole topic is much more insidious than the surface shows. This is the slide pushing the masses to feel they have the right to confiscate property, wealth, retirements Etc.

The “inequality” and “fairness” dogma has been put on simmer while the Republicans are in power. But eventually another leftist will be back in charge.

I’m guessing Whatever we think is crazy talk now will be happening in 20 years.

Remember when we thought Clinton was a radical leftist. He’s a piker compared to the leftists that will be in our near future.

 

[Tundra Tiger]

I opened the USDA website and this popped up..... I find it hilarious

View attachment 717436

I received an email with similar language to inform me I am furloughed.

 

[CJW]

Typing a single letter in the UK can now get you investigated.

 

[Brent in Az]

Munich Oktoberfest shut down after bomb threat and deadly explosion.?
They say it's back open, and the media is all over the place as to what really happened

 

[wesheltonj]

Munich Oktoberfest shut down after bomb threat and deadly explosion.

I saw that. My daughter and her friend were there Saturday and Sunday. Saturday, they closed for about 45 minutes because of overcrowding and told folks to leave and come back later.

In the past, they had a bomber at Octoberfest, you get a little gun shy when you hear about a bomb. They don't want to add to the memorial.

 

[Brent in Az]

AOC's popularity is rising as the radical leader of the left.
Hard to believe that one of the dumbest women in politics is gaining traction. Maybe she's not as dumb as she appears?

This isn't your Grandfather's Democrat party anymore.

 

[Alistair]

Worth watching. If you follow any social media other than this site it is full of the economic woes of the millennial generations in comparison to Boomers. This is a healthy dose of economic reality that no one who needs it will see.

Without trying to be offensive here, I've never seen such a boomer-y video.

He's trying to justify the complete unaffordability of the American Dream for an entire generation just because 'well, if you're lucky enough to already have it, now it's even better than ever'. Wow, just wow.

The accepted path to financial stability in this country has been pretty simple for at least 80 years. Get job, buy house, retire, send kids to college so they can build a better future for themselves. A couple cars optional.

So let's dig into all of those categories, starting with houses.

Most young people aren't worrying about how big their house is, or how nice it is. They're worrying about ever being able to buy any house whatsoever.

That's the challenge for the average 'young person'; give me a place that I can buy for less than 9x my salary, which isn't going to cost 45% of my entire take home pay just in the mortgage payment, which one day may allow me to finally, finally build some wealth.

1000sqft or 5000sqft, who cares. A home. Any home. Some prospect of one day not having crippling monthly rent (which incidentally also costs 2x what it did in the 'good old days' - $108 against a $9,870 median household income, vs $1629 against a $83730 one... you do the math).

Anyhow, that wouldn't have been an unreasonable ask for median wage households in the 70s. Make an average wage of $9,870pa, save 20% of your income for 3 years to sort a deposit, buy an average house for $23,600. 2.5x salary all in, a mortgage balance of roughly 1.8x salary, so affordable interest. Not impossible, even in those few years with crazy high interest rates.

(https://www.census.gov/library/publications/1971/demo/p60-80.html)

(https://www2.census.gov/programs-surveys/nrs/tables/time-series/historical-nrs/uspricemon.pdf).

Even minimum wage at $1.60/hr got you a house for 7x annual earnings if you're working 40hrs/week on average (note - better than median wage today). Sure, it might not have AC and it might 'only' be 1400sqft, but hey, you can always upgrade later when you have accumulated some equity.

Now, hitting that same affordability threshold as 1970s median wage is going to need the best part of 160k a year (which, to remind is roughly 97th percentile for people in their 20s - https://dqydj.com/average-median-top-income-by-age-percentiles/) in most markets. 2.5x salary all in.

Arguably even that isn't enough to match the 1970's median wages with regards to housing. Even at 160k, 20% of your income for 3 years does get you a house deposit, but only of 23%. The same savings rate in 1970 gave you 30%. At median wage.

Make 45k/yr (the median for those in their 20s - https://www.forbes.com/advisor/business/average-salary-by-age/). Forget it. Totally impossible. To remind, median US house price is $410,000 (https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MSPUS). Scraping together a 10% deposity is going to take 5 years saving 20%. Then you have a balance of $369,000, which means a mortgage of $2,432/month. Your total take home is only going to be $3,182. A mortgage of 76% of take home pay? I think not.

You would have a better chance of flipping burgers for minimum wage and buying a house in 1970 vs buying one on median wage today. Simple math.

Same with cars. A 2025 car is way better than a 1975 car, sure. But then, cars in 1975 didn't cost 8 months salary, so... meh.

Remember, $9,870 median household income, which incidentally is often from a single earner:

Today:

Remember, median household income is $83,730 (https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEHOINUSA672N), yet the average new car costs $49,740 (https://www.kbb.com/car-news/average-new-car-price-flirting-with-record/)

As it happens, I bought a modern Dodge Challenger in 2020. A Hellcat WB, so the modern equivalent to the 426 model above. It cost me a bit over $72,000. Think on that.

College? A years tuition in 1970; $394. 4% of median household income. A years tuition in 2025; $10,340. 12% of median household income. 3x worse. Yet people in the 1970s thought it was too expensive back then to send their kids. Yeah, that says a lot...

All the qualifiers of the American dream are completely unaffordable to most, so what's left?

Well, he's right that 'luxuries' are pretty cheap now. Flights are cheap, nice clothes are cheap. Actually, some basics of survival are pretty cheap too; food as an example.

So young people give up on growing their financial stability, and doom spend. You can afford to survive, you can afford to eat out, you can even have nice things. But you can't afford education, and you have no prospect of not paying rent one day. Retirement... eh... probably not. So you might as well enjoy the moment, not like tomorrow will be any better.

IMO, that's why so many young people do the 'luxury poverty' thing. No degree, no house, no car, no retirement savings, but a fancy watch and fancy vacations and lots of eating out. Hey, I get it. A bit of hard work and that's achievable... take what joy you can. There is realistically no opportunity cost because all the 'responsible' things you could spend that money on instead? They're not viable.

Then the boomers judge them for it and call it financial irresponsibility... lol.

 

[Flipper Dude]

Keep telling yourself that. All 4 of my kids have way better houses and lifestyles than I had at their age. How the eff did that happen? I don’t recall them coming to
me for a loan.

If you think you can, or you think you can’t..,,you’re right.

 

[Alistair]

Keep telling yourself that. All 4 of my kids have way better houses and lifestyles than I had at their age. How the eff did that happen? I don’t recall them coming to
me for a loan.

If you think you can, or you think you can’t..,,you’re right.

I mean... I'm not talking about me. I am 30 years old and I have a home, a nice car, a decent pension fund, etc, etc.

I'm just self aware enough to know that I'm not making median wage, I'm not representative.

I'm not saying it's impossible now, just that the barrier to entry to many 'normal middle class things' has moved from 'do ok, make median wage' to 'do really, really well, earn in the 95th percentile+'.

 

[rookhawk]

I think the cost of "being an adult" today are illusions of the left. Yes, we can show anecdotal short-term increases in mortgage rates, fuel, and food as others have pointed out, but the biggest barrier to getting ahead is the younger generation's sense of entitlement.

I'm not elderly, I'm a gen-X person around age 50, but let me give some compare and contrasts of what I see as typical with my generation versus the younger generations that have all the compliants:

1.) I have ALWAYS had a side hustle. Since I was 14, I always had a business that covered my hobbies. Most younger people do not have a side hustle after they've done their 40 hours for their employer.

2.) My first home was the cheapest house in a very good town. It was abandoned, broken windows, it had an abandoned car in the driveway an a family of raccoons in the garage. I lived in squalor for 7 years turning my $141k house into a $535k house with sweat equity and a complete gutting. This isn't an unusual thing for most readers, but only 1:1000 millennials would make these sacrifices that were normal for Baby Boomers.

3.) Even when I was earning six figures, I drove lousy cars. Even when I entered the C-Suite in my late 30s, my vehicles were inferior to my team of VPs, and even inferior to their teams of Directors. I believe in earlier generations it was very normal for the CEO and the janitor to drive shitboxes.

4.) I'm in a high tech field. My phones are 3 year old refurbished ones I pay $250 for whereas younger people are financing $1500 new phones.

5.) I always had the highest deduction insurances and a catastrophic emergency fund to address them in a crisis. This was absolutely normal for older generations whereas younger people are paying a lot more for coverages because they lacked the discipline to save and they lacked the balls to take more insurance risk.

6.) Cable and streaming services

7.) Doordash and eating out, rather than making stuff at home.

8.) Pay for your education as you attend. I spent $80k on my MBA but I funded 90% of it out of pocket whereas modern youth take out large loans.

9.) Dumpster diving and hand me downs. This was always normal for my generation. Even my wife and her girlfriends swap vintage $1500 designer dresses amongst one another rather than buy one new. Not owning new is normal.

10.) Ebay, thrift stores, and garage sales. Buying things used is my first instinct as it was for many GenX and baby boomers, yet it is not a common practice of youth.

Those are just some of a thousand examples of "the way things were for GenX and baby boomers, but is not normal for younger generations that are more entitled to luxury." I literally earn 10x the average salary of a GenY yet I spend the same or less than they do in each of the conspicuous consumption categories. No wonder they are wingeing and complaining they can't have what we have, their habits and frugality are not the same as our generations.

 

[Russ16]

Keep telling yourself that. All 4 of my kids have way better houses and lifestyles than I had at their age. How the eff did that happen? I don’t recall them coming to
me for a loan.

If you think you can, or you think you can’t..,,you’re right.

All this depends where you live and the choices you want to make.

I have people that work for me that make $250k a year an and rent. Buying is possible for them but what they can rent is way nicer than what they can buy at a similar monthly cost. Not to mention the down payment. They figure they are better leaving the down payment in the market and let it appreciate. They save the housing maintenance costs (new roof, hvac, etc) and a lot of hassle.

It is contrary to how I viewed the world at that age and home ownership but I’m not sure I can tell them they’re wrong.

But for pipes in my area making half that, home ownership is extremely difficult even if buying a less than desirable house in a poor location.

It’s complicated. Not so clear cut as work hard and you can get it. Especially in some areas.

 

[Alistair]

I think the cost of "being an adult" today are illusions of the left. Yes, we can show anecdotal short-term increases in mortgage rates, fuel, and food as others have pointed out, but the biggest barrier to getting ahead is the younger generation's sense of entitlement.

I'm not elderly, I'm a gen-X person around age 50, but let me give some compare and contrasts of what I see as typical with my generation versus the younger generations that have all the compliants:

1.) I have ALWAYS had a side hustle. Since I was 14, I always had a business that covered my hobbies. Most younger people do not have a side hustle after they've done their 40 hours for their employer.

2.) My first home was the cheapest house in a very good town. It was abandoned, broken windows, it had an abandoned car in the driveway an a family of raccoons in the garage. I lived in squalor for 7 years turning my $141k house into a $535k house with sweat equity and a complete gutting. This isn't an unusual thing for most readers, but only 1:1000 millennials would make these sacrifices that were normal for Baby Boomers.

3.) Even when I was earning six figures, I drove lousy cars. Even when I entered the C-Suite in my late 30s, my vehicles were inferior to my team of VPs, and even inferior to their teams of Directors. I believe in earlier generations it was very normal for the CEO and the janitor to drive shitboxes.

4.) I'm in a high tech field. My phones are 3 year old refurbished ones I pay $250 for whereas younger people are financing $1500 new phones.

5.) I always had the highest deduction insurances and a catastrophic emergency fund to address them in a crisis. This was absolutely normal for older generations whereas younger people are paying a lot more for coverages because they lacked the discipline to save and they lacked the balls to take more insurance risk.

6.) Cable and streaming services

7.) Doordash and eating out, rather than making stuff at home.

8.) Pay for your education as you attend. I spent $80k on my MBA but I funded 90% of it out of pocket whereas modern youth take out large loans.

9.) Dumpster diving and hand me downs. This was always normal for my generation. Even my wife and her girlfriends swap vintage $1500 designer dresses amongst one another rather than buy one new. Not owning new is normal.

10.) Ebay, thrift stores, and garage sales. Buying things used is my first instinct as it was for many GenX and baby boomers, yet it is not a common practice of youth.

Those are just some of a thousand examples of "the way things were for GenX and baby boomers, but is not normal for younger generations that are more entitled to luxury." I literally earn 10x the average salary of a GenY yet I spend the same or less than they do in each of the conspicuous consumption categories. No wonder they are wingeing and complaining they can't have what we have, their habits and frugality are not the same as our generations.

It's an interesting hypothesis and one I wanted to test. So let's dig into that.

1.) Not true. The cohort of Americans most likely to work two jobs are 20-24, although there isn't much variation across age either way. https://www.bls.gov/web/empsit/cpseea39.htm

2.) Fair enough. Something in that. People probably should settle for less house and aim to renovate, assuming they can get a mortgage for it and such places exist in their market. I do think that young people (myself included) are generally less 'handy' than those of my father's generation, so the skill set is perhaps less likely to be there. Personally, I'd have a crack at some painting, maybe installing some loft insulation, some basic plumbing repairs, but I wouldn't back myself to do a good job of a kitchen install, a roofing job, or electrical work. Maybe that's a generational difference too.

3.) Not true. The average age of a car on the road in 2025 is higher than it has ever been. Maybe because they last longer, maybe because people now can't afford to replace them. A valid comment for those with the cash to choose to buy a nice car I guess, but that's not most people. https://www.bts.gov/content/average-age-automobiles-and-trucks-operation-united-states

4.) Fair. Can't argue with that. Different priorities I guess, although it's not enough money to really make a dent on any of their problems anyway.

5.) Fair. If you can accumulate an emergency fund that seems smart. Young people probably haven't had time to accumulate one though, and if they did, they'd probably use it for a house deposit, or to pay off some student loans...

6.) I mean, is that young people? The youngest generation are the ones most likely to cut and go back to piracy over streaming (https://cordcutting.com/research/content-piracy-study/), and I don't know anyone under the age of 40 who is willing to pay for cable. Pew suggests just 16% of those under 29 are paying for it (https://www.pewresearch.org/short-r...far-fewer-subscribe-to-cable-or-satellite-tv/). Far too expensive, far too crap. As for streaming, that's pretty much every age group these days; https://research.mountain.com/insights/the-streaming-generation-gap-is-smaller-than-you-think/

7.) Fair. Hard to argue with that one.

8.) I mean, sure. But realistically how many young people have $72k just lying around to pay for a degree? Or even have a job opportunity that'd allow them to earn that whilst also doing a 4 year course after rent, and food, etc? Not like the average 20 year old can get a part time bar tending job during college and cover that, is it?

For my own part, I took out a loan for my first degree, which got me a job. I worked 20 odd hours a week whilst at college, but that only covered food, books, fuel, and some of my rent. It wasn't anywhere near enough to cover tuition as well. Not a chance. The other two degrees, I incurred no debt. Mostly because work covered a lot of the cost. As for the rest that I did have to cover myself, I paid out of pocket. But then, I was in a reasonably well paying full time job by the time I did em, so it was a viable option.

9.) Not true. The average thrift store shopper is 25-34. https://capitaloneshopping.com/research/thrifting-statistics/

10.) This is kind of the same as 9 I think.

Seems to me that the mindset thing is a valid point, but it's mostly saving pennies when you need hundreds of dollars. Not doing door dash might cut food costs by a few thousand a year, buying a refurb phone might save a few hundred, but realistically, does that make a dent on a house deposit? Does it cover college? Does it allow meaningful retirement savings?

With the valid exception of the car thing and the fixer-upper house thing... it does not. And those two aren't realistically choices for median wage earners in 2025, they're tools to get the 75th percentile wage earner into a house when otherwise they'd need to be 90th percentile.

I think a lot of it comes back to the doom spending thing I referenced previously. For many, making minor changes to their spending habits isn't going to move the needle much, if at all, so what's the point? Cheap luxuries, expensive smart purchases.

Of course, one could argue that getting into frugal habits now might help in 10-20 years when income grows and it may ultimately be very useful, but (imo) that's a hard sell to a 20 year old of any generation.

 

[Doug3006]

My wife and I met in high school and married in May 1984, the month after we graduated college. We had a net worth of -$95,000. Yup, nearly $100K under water. We somehow parlayed a couple of offer letters for good jobs and $10k in cash we’d saved working part time jobs into a loan for a $75K condo. Please understand that a $75k condo was far from an AVERAGE home in 1984. It was what we used to call a starter home. Oh yeah, the mortgage interest rate as 13%

So, sell your sad stories elsewhere.

 

[Flipper Dude]

I typed out a long, heartfelt response to previous posts, and then erased it. Cuz whose mind am I gonna change? And why should I give a shit, anyway? I’ll just say, if you live in different times than I did, then you do what you need to do to prosper in the time you are given, if that is something you aspire to. No excuses. Develop skills, and don’t expect to have or do shit before you are 50 something. Realistic.

 

[275r7x57]

I think the cost of "being an adult" today are illusions of the left. Yes, we can show anecdotal short-term increases in mortgage rates, fuel, and food as others have pointed out, but the biggest barrier to getting ahead is the younger generation's sense of entitlement.

I'm not elderly, I'm a gen-X person around age 50, but let me give some compare and contrasts of what I see as typical with my generation versus the younger generations that have all the compliants:

1.) I have ALWAYS had a side hustle. Since I was 14, I always had a business that covered my hobbies. Most younger people do not have a side hustle after they've done their 40 hours for their employer.

2.) My first home was the cheapest house in a very good town. It was abandoned, broken windows, it had an abandoned car in the driveway an a family of raccoons in the garage. I lived in squalor for 7 years turning my $141k house into a $535k house with sweat equity and a complete gutting. This isn't an unusual thing for most readers, but only 1:1000 millennials would make these sacrifices that were normal for Baby Boomers.

3.) Even when I was earning six figures, I drove lousy cars. Even when I entered the C-Suite in my late 30s, my vehicles were inferior to my team of VPs, and even inferior to their teams of Directors. I believe in earlier generations it was very normal for the CEO and the janitor to drive shitboxes.

4.) I'm in a high tech field. My phones are 3 year old refurbished ones I pay $250 for whereas younger people are financing $1500 new phones.

5.) I always had the highest deduction insurances and a catastrophic emergency fund to address them in a crisis. This was absolutely normal for older generations whereas younger people are paying a lot more for coverages because they lacked the discipline to save and they lacked the balls to take more insurance risk.

6.) Cable and streaming services

7.) Doordash and eating out, rather than making stuff at home.

8.) Pay for your education as you attend. I spent $80k on my MBA but I funded 90% of it out of pocket whereas modern youth take out large loans.

9.) Dumpster diving and hand me downs. This was always normal for my generation. Even my wife and her girlfriends swap vintage $1500 designer dresses amongst one another rather than buy one new. Not owning new is normal.

10.) Ebay, thrift stores, and garage sales. Buying things used is my first instinct as it was for many GenX and baby boomers, yet it is not a common practice of youth.

Those are just some of a thousand examples of "the way things were for GenX and baby boomers, but is not normal for younger generations that are more entitled to luxury." I literally earn 10x the average salary of a GenY yet I spend the same or less than they do in each of the conspicuous consumption categories. No wonder they are wingeing and complaining they can't have what we have, their habits and frugality are not the same as our generations.

Most individuals have no clue or desire to live within or below their means in order to save for tomorrow, their future or their kids future. Most want instant gratification now.

Most have no self control.

 

[LivingTheDream]

My wife and I met in high school and married in May 1984, the month after we graduated college. We had a net worth of -$95,000. Yup, nearly $100K under water. We somehow parlayed a couple of offer letters for good jobs and $10k in cash we’d saved working part time jobs into a loan for a $75K condo. Please understand that a $75k condo was far from an AVERAGE home in 1984. It was what we used to call a starter home. Oh yeah, the mortgage interest rate as 13%

So, sell your sad stories elsewhere.

Here is your sad story, a person today with a net worth of -95k, with less than 20% down payment isnt getting a loan. So even if they had the cash, they arent getting the chance to buy a starter home. So by todays standards you arent buying that "starter home" either. Your path to wealth just got delayed because you are renting.

Also, fun fact in dealing with banks today, did you know that banks won't consider cash in your bank, actually cash to approve you for a loan. You have to prove how you got the cash. Ask me how I know.

How about this, Boomers have no idea what the Gen Z and Millenials are going through and Gen Z and Millenials cant comprehend some of the stuff Boomers did to get by. Some situations are better, some are worse, but I think stereo typing a whole generation is a bit silly.