Politics

[Corey0372]

Phoenix Contact, interestingly, even though they are a German company quite a number of their product line does get produced in China as well as Germany. There are alternatives, but no one gets close to their quality and features in most of their product line.

Which manufacturer in China? If you don't mind sharing. Had an interesting conversation with a dealer from Trupulse the other day about some of this stuff is why I'm curious.

 

[Tanks]

People need to ask this question.

Would you want to be in combat with a man like Pence? A guy who would desert his brothers in arms on the battlefield to save his own skin? Someone who doesn't have your back?

Using your battlefield analogy (even though it is far-fetched). I'd respect a man who would refuse an illegal order despite personal costs.

 

[Tanks]

Which manufacturer in China? If you don't mind sharing. Had an interesting conversation with a dealer from Trupulse the other day about some of this stuff is why I'm curious.

No idea where they get produced, all I get is a 10% tariff line item on invoices. We use Digikey as the distributor.

 

[CoElkHunter]

You suggest on cost plus contracts we do not charge for all of the cost? Have you ever owned a business where a multitude of employees and contractors are counting on you? The example I presented was to point out that Trump era tariffs of 10% on certain goods were still in effect during the current administration and costs of it are eventually born by the public.

Also, America first should not mean isolationist necessarily, And, whether you admit it or not we are in a global economy. Is there a smart phone or a computer or a tractor etc. that is 100% USA produced? There was a big shortage of chips being used in vehicles that affected car manufacturers from USA to Japan that led to shortages and increased prices during the pandemic.

What happens overseas does in fact affect us here at home and one would ignore it at one's own peril.

I agree with you on the global economy. We can never go back to the '60s and '70s before much of our manufacturing and later tech was shipped overseas to compete because of the cheap labor there. It cost the US many good paying jobs but in the long run it did/has benefited the vast majority of Americans. Example: A Schwinn bicycle cost about $60 here in the mid '60s. That would be $550 now. You can buy a Chinese made stingray bicycle at Wal Mart for $120. Four years ago it was $80. If you're a kid who needs a bike from a family on a tight budget, do you really care where it's made? No. Same goes for Chinese and South Korean made appliances, autos and automobile parts. Most are well made. We did buy a washer and dryer maybe eight years back made in America only because our industry in that sector could compete at that time with the foreign offerings. I would like to see many more things made here at competitive prices but when families are on ever increasingly tight budgets, they don't care where it's made as long as it's inexpensive and it works.

 

[Brent in Az]

Using your battlefield analogy (even though it is far-fetched). I'd respect a man who would refuse an illegal order despite personal costs.

What illegal order exactly?

Trump asked Pence to delay the certification of electorates in order to investigate the highly suspicious outcome of certain states.
Nothing illegal about it.

Anything else is purely conjecture.

 

[rookhawk]

https://twitter.com/JimFergusonUK


Breaking: US Navy Medic Shut Down for Releasing unclassified DOD Data Showing a 937% Increase in Heart Failure Among Vaccinated US Military PersonnelA service member who earlier this year blew the whistle and disclosed data from a Pentagon medical database showing a spike in the rate of myocarditis in the military in 2021, after the rollout of COVID-19 vaccines, is going public.The whistleblower is active-duty Navy Medical Service Corps officer Lt. Ted Macie. He has also revealed new data showing a substantial rise in accidents, assaults, self-harm, and suicide attempts in the military in 2021, compared to the average from 2016 to 2021.That the deaths and health injuries are anything but rare is evident from the report by a US Navy medic that Department of Defense data show that US Navy pilots have suffered a:937% increase in heart failure152% increase in cardiomyopathy69% increase in ischemic heart disease36% increase in hypertensive disease36% increase in hypertensive disease63% increase in other forms of heart disease. The corrupt US Department of Defense, a ramp for the excess profits of the armaments industry, tried to blame the events on the Covid virus itself. However, “according to information published by the US Army, 97% of active-duty U.S. troops are fully vaccinated, 90% of Army National Guard members are fully vaccinated, and 91% of U.S. Army Reserve members are fully vaccinated.”So, if the “vaccine” did not cause the deaths and health injuries, and the virus was responsible, obviously the “vaccine” was totally ineffective in protecting against the virus.In actual fact, according to independent medical scientists, the “vaccine” not only did not protect but caused more deaths and worst health injuries than the virus itself.As the US Navy medic now suffers. Lt. Ted Macie met with the female Chief of Naval Operations and her aide, and afterward found that he was blocked from access to his computer. Charges are likely pending against him.

 

[shootist~]

What illegal order exactly?

The Constitution.

 

[Tanks]

... I would like to see many more things made here at competitive prices but when families are on ever increasingly tight budgets, they don't care where it's made as long as it's inexpensive and it works.

After my negative experiences with American made vehicles in the 90s I had vowed never to buy another. Well, my partner really wanted a Jeep so I gave in. Horrible service for routine maintenance. One visor attachment broke, it was under warranty, but we had to make another trip a week later when the part came in. The second visor broke as well. When she went in, they could not even place the second one on order as their computers were down. She will have to go in, and they'll have to order it and then she will have to make another trip for installation.

Oh yeah, they don't take appointments for service either, you have to go in and wait on a first come first served basis.

She loves the Jeep, but I'll have to talk her into an import for the next SUV that can carry her surfboards on top and still look "cute".

 

[Corey0372]

No idea where they get produced, all I get is a 10% tariff line item on invoices. We use Digikey as the distributor.

I brought up Huanic earlier because they are the parent company of Holosun, a brand rapidly growing in popularity in the US, but they also manufacture optics for the PLA. Essentially, buying Holosun products funds the PLA and ultimately the end user is doing R&D for them. Huanic also makes lots of other products for commercial applications similar to what you described earlier, but again they have very close ties with the PLA. This is just one example of many.

I'm not one to bash a guy for who he does business with, I get it, in the US we ultimately have to look out for ourselves, just the way it is (Nationalism=bad and all that). You said earlier that you didn't know who the manufacturer in China was for the parts you're dealing with, fair enough. Ultimately what I'm asking is if you were sourcing them from a Chinese equivalent of Raytheon, or BAE systems, or similar Chinese version of these companies that produces arms and equipment for the PLA (which is potentially any Chinese company the PLA tells to do so) would that effect your business model? Or would you continue to use them as long as it was legal to do so and they were the cheapest source?

A 10% tariff you can pass on to the customer, this applies to most things that are tariffed, (with some exceptions). Again I understand the US relies on most things from China, so it's hard to point the finger at any one business sector or businessman and call them names. China is clearly winning in many ways, and despite what people say about their population levels, or their fudged numbers economy, I don't see this stopping any time soon. Wildly, up until a few years ago Federal TSPs were being invested into funds that the CCP used to arm the PLA, thankfully that was ended, but it took congress to act to do it.

In your opinion, what would be some things that could be changed in the US so that it becomes less appealing to do business with Chinese manufacturers? Does it just boil down to cost? Would you have done business with the USSR given the opportunity if it was cheaper?

I'm sincerely not attacking you either, I can empathize with the "cold hard numbers" approach to business. I would just like to figure out ways to improve the odds of the US in regards to the competition with China.

 

[Brent in Az]

The Constitution.

Which amendment?

 

[CoElkHunter]

After my negative experiences with American made vehicles in the 90s I had vowed never to buy another. Well, my partner really wanted a Jeep so I gave in. Horrible service for routine maintenance. One visor attachment broke, it was under warranty, but we had to make another trip a week later when the part came in. The second visor broke as well. When she went in, they could not even place the second one on order as their computers were down. She will have to go in, and they'll have to order it and then she will have to make another trip for installation.

Oh yeah, they don't take appointments for service either, you have to go in and wait on a first come first served basis.

She loves the Jeep, but I'll have to talk her into an import for the next SUV that can carry her surfboards on top and still look "cute".

The quality of MOST American brand vehicles have gotten WAY better than the '90s, but they still have a way to go especially with the tech stuff on the vehicles. Before buying any vehicle, go to carcomplaints.com. You put in the year, make and model of the vehicle you're looking to buy and it will show all the problems that people have reported to the NHTSA and other websites. That doesn't mean necessarily that YOUR vehicle will have the same issues, but it shows the number of complaints for the same issues and shows a pattern of the same problems for the same issues with the same year, make and model. Some issues are minor and some major. I use it when looking for a newer vehicle.

 

[Tanks]

...

In your opinion, what would be some things that could be changed in the US so that it becomes less appealing to do business with Chinese manufacturers? Does it just boil down to cost? Would you have done business with the USSR given the opportunity if it was cheaper?

I'm sincerely not attacking you either, I can empathize with the "cold hard numbers" approach to business. I would just like to figure out ways to improve the odds of the US in regards to the competition with China.

For me what matters is quality and features and customer service more than the cost. On some equipment we use US made solutions per client request, our engineering cost however goes up exponentially as we have to make up for lack of features in our software programming. Siemens and Schneider Electric (Square D) are more advanced than Allen Bradley (a USA company) in regard to motor control centers, automation products, switchgear, etc.. I just went through a quote for a client with Allen Bradley, no equal, requirement. Our cost to them is 25% more than if they were to use Siemens. But that is the corporate standard.

 

[Corey0372]

For me what matters is quality and features and customer service more than the cost. On some equipment we use US made solutions per client request, our engineering cost however goes up exponentially as we have to make up for lack of features in our software programming. Siemens and Schneider Electric (Square D) are more advanced than Allen Bradley (a USA company) in regard to motor control centers, automation products, switchgear, etc.. I just went through a quote for a client with Allen Bradley, no equal, requirement. Our cost to them is 25% more than if they were to use Siemens. But that is the corporate standard.

So you were talking about paying the 10% tariff and passing that cost on to the customer, was there another vendor you could use for the product with similar features that isn't made in China? Or were they literally the only vendor that made this product. And again, if you knew that it was coming from a company that builds weapons for the PLA would you still be okay with the deal even if their were other, albeit more expensive options?

Also, as far as bringing some of these capacities into the United States in a way that's meaningful and benefits others in your line of work, any suggestions? I think this is going to just get more and more critical in regards to electronics in particular, as textiles are easily sourced outside of China.

 

[freefall]

As Kruschev said "you will sell us the rope to hang you with".

 

[Corey0372]

As Kruschev said "you will sell us the rope to hang you with".

I think that's one of those quotes that has been attributed to a handful of people??

It's hard to make the argument that China is even a Communist country anymore, at least in the sense of Mao's interpretation, but even Marx and Engels for that matter. The Chinese State owns certain aspects of the economy, but Capitalism does exist there (Deng's Socialism with Chinese characteristics). Of note, Carl Schmitt has been rising in popularity for well over a decade in academia there, since the 90s in some circles.

 

[shootist~]

Which amendment?

12

 

[Corey0372]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/03/16/niger-junta-end-us-military/

Gen. Langley was literally stressing the importance of increasing ISR platforms for AFRICOM about a week ago to the Senate Armed Services Committee. Welp, there goes basically our largest drone base on the continent.

The full testimony with him and the CENTCOM commander if anyone's interested....

 

[Corey0372]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/03/16/niger-junta-end-us-military/

Gen. Langley was literally stressing the importance of increasing ISR platforms for AFRICOM about a week ago to the Senate Armed Services Committee. Welp, there goes basically our largest drone base on the continent.

The full testimony with him and the CENCOM commander if anyone's interested....

My buddy just sent me a good one.....

Agadez? More like Agadezen't belong to us anymore.

 

[ActionBob]

What illegal order exactly?

Trump asked Pence to delay the certification of electorates in order to investigate the highly suspicious outcome of certain states.
Nothing illegal about it.

Anything else is purely conjecture.

That would have been great if it worked that way. Unfortunately you and Trump are just simply wrong about that. I'm sorry but facts are facts and you and Trump don't have yours straight.

I believe that would have required some Representatives and/Senators to step up and take action. Only thing Pence had any real power to do would have been to break a tie vote in the Senate.

Honestly just think about this a moment. If a vice president could stop the certification of an election, we'd have a process that would work like Russia's where the President is really a Dictator for life. How would you like it if that shoe was on the other foot and a Democrat stayed in after losing an election? Now I agree there should have been more investigation into the election. But that should have been done immediately and before the certification date.

And again, any action to be taken should have been been by Congress.

 

[sgt_zim]

I think that's one of those quotes that has been attributed to a handful of people??

It's hard to make the argument that China is even a Communist country anymore, at least in the sense of Mao's interpretation, but even Marx and Engels for that matter. The Chinese State owns certain aspects of the economy, but Capitalism does exist there (Deng's Socialism with Chinese characteristics). Of note, Carl Schmitt has been rising in popularity for well over a decade in academia there, since the 90s in some circles.

I think we make not a small mistake in focusing on communism. Authoritarianism of any stripe is to be feared and abhorred.

Foundationally, there are 2 sorts of governments: republics and oligarchies, and China is most ricky-tick an oligarchy.