Offhand with double rifles

[mitch4570]

Ok I just googled what is acceptable accuracy with a double rifle at 100 yards. Google said that holding 12 inches at 100 yards offhand is expected. I know it's google and not always relaiable but it got me thinking.
I used to shoot a lot of CMP reduced matches at 100 yards. The offhand SR1 target 9 ring is 6.35 inches. I could hold the 9 ring or better offhand with my 1903 a3 bolt rifle, that comes from many many rounds of dry and live fire.
Now at my club they have a day when they introduce people to high power compitiion. I would volunteer to help coach the newbies. I have never had anyone I coached that was able to hold even 2 feet. So without lots of practice I feel it is not common to be able to hold 12 inches at 100 yards offhand.
So I have not shot my double 470 nitro express at 100 yet. Still practicing making the first shot count at 50 yards off sticks and offhand at 25 yards. As you all know shooting a bigbore double is a far cry from shooting a 3006.
So how about it, can anyone here hold a 12 inche circle at 100 yards offhand?

 

[analog_peninsula]

I can't imagine that anyone who doesn't practice that exact task on a regular basis has much of a chance of success. Shooting that well isn't trivial, regardless of what you see in the movies.

 

[Tdsmith517]

I routinely shoot a 10 inch plate at 100 yards off hand with rifles with and without optics. I find a 8-9 pound rifle the perfect weight for me to hold steady without it swaying. I would imagine a much heavier rifle would cause one to fatigue quickly without extensive practice.

 

[Mark A Ouellette]

Ok I just googled what is acceptable accuracy with a double rifle at 100 yards. Google said that holding 12 inches at 100 yards offhand is expected.

So how about it, can anyone here hold a 12 inche circle at 100 yards offhand?

It's been a minute vor me but I remember CMP and NRA High Power target for offhand is a 12" bull at 200 yards. I never witnessed anyone cleaning that phase of a match. For this we would wear thick shooting jackets that provided support of our trunk/mid section, a blinder on the non-shooting eye, and hold the rifle in a modified position while leaning back to stabilize our position. "Bone support, muscular relaxation, and natural point of aim". One would have to be a 6' 10" monster to shoot much over a .375 H&H like that!

I've posted photos and videos before of shooting positions where @Altitude sickness leans into his .505 Gibbs and absorbs recoil rather well. My stance is more upright from my competition days. I may shoot more accurately but certainly do not absorb recoil as well.

My upright position,

Altitude Sicknesses leaning forward position,

Ian leaning forward,

Somewhere I have photos of him leaning into his .505 Gibbs

And here is our O.P. @mitch4570 shooting his new to him .458 Lott. It is evident he spent time shooting offhand competion.

Leaning forward or "into" a heavy recoiling rifle reduces bone support and muscular relaxation which are the foundation of a good (accurate) shooting position.

For a $5,000 or more trophy fee, shooting more than 50 yards offhand (no support) with a high recoiling rifle should give most of us pause. I've logged in (notebook) 800 shots with my .458 Heym double and never shot offhand more than 50 yards. For that, a 6" group is practical with a 4" group desired. Yes, a 6" group at 50 should be a 12" group at 100 if there are no other factors. Other than a gentlemens' competition or self imposed goal, I'll stick to 50 yards for offhand practice with 50 & 100 yards off sticks or standing bench.

If an animal is hit and running away, that's where our unsupported standing practice will pay off! Master the fundamentals and during the time for challenging (crisis time), your subconscious will guide you toward the target.

The above stated, I can shoot my trusty .458 very accurately from a sitting position! Grass is however often tall in Africa...

Also, one of our members sent me a private video of him shooting a buffalo with a .458 Heym double at 100 yards. It was a one-shot kill. He gets the Brass Balls award of the month!

 

[318AE]

As a high power competition shooter, you have exceedingly more offhand shooting experience than most hunters. A hundred yards with an open sight double on sticks is a far poke.

I’m a former three position small bore guy myself and have great respect for the high power shooters. Some of those skills translate to hunting, but some do not. Our targets don’t move and are at known distances. You’re not waiting for the target to clear brush and turn broadside for an instance before it bolts off.

I think the question for a hunter is less about if they can hold a 12” circle at 100 yards offhand with open sights (because most can’t), and more about how quickly they can get on sticks, use an improvised rest with the trunk of a tree or backpack on the ground, or simply get closer depending on the terrain.

 

[BourbonTrail]

Hmm, now I want to try this with my 416, taking off the scope. I know when I did 50yds offhand, my first shot was usually good, but follow ups degraded quickly (especially with rapid fire). I don’t have a double, but the 9lb 416 should be a good alternative.

For reference, I use a 1-6 scope, set to 6 power, and sticks for 100yd shots as my regular practice.

 

[Tdsmith517]

While I am a firm believer in practicing at distances much greater than one intendeds to shoot at live game, I think the expectation of accuracy needs to be reasonable. Double rifles of caliber over .416 are not really intended for use over 100 yards. Even in the modern era of red dots, a 1 moa dot covers a large area at 100 yards. While smaller calibers of double rifles can be very accurate particularly when scoped and sighted in to a particular barrel.

I also don’t think a PH worth their daily rate or who has any ounce of pride their profession is going to let someone shoot at dangerous game especially with a double rifle much past 50-75 yards. The idea of course is to get close. Now the only exception I can see is if an animal has been wounded, then it is take whatever you can to put more holes in it.

That said I think it is advisable for any one to practice off hand and out to distance, because one never really knows what is going to happen at game time.

 

[Tanks]

This was 50 meters offhand with my new Rigby Shikari after I sighted in the 1 MOA RMR. Anything further I'd use sticks, actually my first choice is using sticks.

 

[mitch4570]

That is some fine shooting!

 

[deewayne2003]

I’m probably 400+ rounds into my .470ne and my avatar pic is a R&L group at 50yds with iron sights as regulated by Ken Owen.

My rifle with hand loads, standing bench and iron sights will do 1” at 100yds and with the 1moa RMR I can break clay pigeons on the 100yd berm no problem and free hand I can ring 8” plates at 100yds no problem.

Or I should say, I can do those things when I’m tuned up for a hunt by firing a minimum 20rnds per week for 6 weeks before a hunt.

There is always a trade off with the iron sights it’s much more accurate, but with the RMR its hands down faster.

 

[Wildwillalaska]

I am not the best offhand shot but do practice at it to try and maintain level of competence for effective parting shots at 100, but always prefer sticks. I also like to at play if not practice at longer ranges now and then to at least see what things hit like.

So while preparing for an Idaho bighorn hunt in a few weeks, I was doing some shooting on steel at 400-1000 confirming drop and wind drift. Decided to see how my 375 Flanged Mag hit at 200 and 300 yards between shots with the SAUM.

The problem with red dot and even low power scopes is my aging eyes like to blend so much the further out I go and determining the proper hold. My first pair at 200 made me feel like a stud, so took my spotter off the 500yd gong I was shooting my saum at and moved over to see if I could repeat the near perfect pairing…NOPE. First shot I pulled…but the left barrel was right below the left barrel on the previous pair. The third pairing was better than the second, but still not like the first. However, for,6 shots at 200yd shooting off a tripod with a bag on top…my more comfortable version of sticks when shooting more volume…I’ll take it.

 

[Russ16]

I easily put 4 shot groups into 6 inches at 50 yards offhand with my double It is actually much less than 6 inches, I just use that number because I use 6 inch sticker targets when I shoot and they are all inside that target. I almost never shoot it at 100. Maybe I'll try next time I'm at the range.

With a double you're dealing with the variance from the shooter and the barrels. Even the best double groups larger between barrels than most would consider acceptable grouping from a single shot rifle. Mine is inside 1.5 inches at 50 yards from a rest with both barrels. I would consider it disastrous if a scoped bolt gun that was outside .5-.75 inches at 50 yards for the same number of shots.

 

[Wildwillalaska]

The following day I threw a target up at 300 to try….bit more noise from other shooters and steel challenge going in background…but makes clear at that 300yd range, with a double, I’m a Hail Mary shooter at best. First shot was money…then second was just off the paper….next pair better, but my eyes and need to gauge/adjust holdover at 300 yards makes it a crap shoot. Fun, good information to have, but also confirms these are not the best tools for long distances.

And out at the range last night, I was trying out a new powder in my 500 between groups with sheep rifle, so shooting at 55yrds. But, had one pair of my regular Woodleigh RNSN 570 with RL15 and shot a single pair at 100 offhand…and was around 4-6”. This was on a used target that I had plastered up until it ran out of black dots, so the smaller holes were from someone else earlier in the day or weekend. Was pleased with the pair, but fully admit if I shot 6-8 shots offhand at 100, the 4-6” would grow dramatically I think. I’m good at not Imparting movement with my trigger hand…but combining it with the perfect timing of hold on target…I’d have a flier or two at least.

 

[mitch4570]

Good shooting all. I quess I will keep practicing.

 

[mitch4570]

Thank you for the excellent responses from everone. If anyone tries 100 yard offhand, I hope you will share the results with us. I will give it a try as soon as I get back from my black bear hunt next week.

 

[Betterinthebush]

My double is reserved strictly for Africa. So all my practice centers on that. My offhand shooting I keep to 25yds and under. I’ve shot out to 50 and know I can do it if needed.

With them I find myself practicing harder on placement of my first shot, a quick follow up and a smooth transition to reloading.

 

[R eight]

100 yards with a big double is a bloody long way. I don’t own any big bore doubles but I do own 2 9.3 x 74 R doubles. As to shooting them into a 12” circle at 100 yards, standing offhand…..well. On a good day probably, more often than not. But I wouldn’t guarantee it.

Now, as to shooting a big bore bolt action rifle, iron sighted or scoped, into a 12” circle at 100 yards from the standing unsupported position….on most days it’s achievable.

I regularly shoot a big game rifle competition at the local ranges. The competition is shot on a 50 meter pistol target. The black circle is about 8 inches in diameter.

We shoot at distances of 25, 50 and 100 yards/meters and most shots are from the standing unsupported position. At 100 yards a couple of shots are generally from the sitting position. The average winning score is generally above 80%. That means most of us keep all of our shots in the black. That’s shooting with rifles up to and including 500 J and 505 G.

 

[R eight]

A mate and I often, well not enough really, have a muck around/practice with the big toys. Sledging each other is expected. They are good days out. We even waste ammunition shooting steel at 300 yards plus. Once you figure out the hold over …. Fun !

 

[Altitude sickness]

Reading @Mark A Ouellette post above. Once again he is being conservative or modest.

You would not want to stand on the 100 yard line hoping he missed you with his double.

His quoted groups are an average not his best group.

 

[mitch4570]

The following day I threw a target up at 300 to try….bit more noise from other shooters and steel challenge going in background…but makes clear at that 300yd range, with a double, I’m a Hail Mary shooter at best. First shot was money…then second was just off the paper….next pair better, but my eyes and need to gauge/adjust holdover at 300 yards makes it a crap shoot. Fun, good information to have, but also confirms these are not the best tools for long distances.

And out at the range last night, I was trying out a new powder in my 500 between groups with sheep rifle, so shooting at 55yrds. But, had one pair of my regular Woodleigh RNSN 570 with RL15 and shot a single pair at 100 offhand…and was around 4-6”. This was on a used target that I had plastered up until it ran out of black dots, so the smaller holes were from someone else earlier in the day or weekend. Was pleased with the pair, but fully admit if I shot 6-8 shots offhand at 100, the 4-6” would grow dramatically I think. I’m good at not Imparting movement with my trigger hand…but combining it with the perfect timing of hold on target…I’d have a flier or two at least. View attachment 785967

That is spectacular shooting!.