New Scope - Brand Question

[deewayne2003]

@deewayne2003 Regarding lapping there are some manufacturers like Talley who recommend against them. Their POV is it is finished using CNC machines and lapping may have some adverse effects. This is what I was told.So are you referring to some specific brand or in general?

In general or shall I say I lap all my rings.

I just mounted a 4-14x40 Vari-X III on a .300Wby with Talley rings and I still lapped them.

Morris at Alaskan Arms goes a step further, he paints the inside of the ring with a very thin coat of liquid electrical tape and then torques to spec, I tried it and have been doing that too ever since.

Even if the part is machined to exact tolerence, there is still the issue of the finish and how it will may flow to sharp edges changing tolerence.

So again, I lap all my rings now.... Just don't over lap them.

 

[Rimshot]

There are a lot of good options out there. Each have strengths and weaknesses.

I personally like the option to dial for longer range on almost any rifle, provided the turret has a zero-stop and zero-lock. If it's not a tall turret and it locks, I see no disadvantage. I think Leupold has the best system so far. The illumination is lacking though, both in max brightness and adjustment. I also don't like that the other reticle options have a large portion illuminated, rather than just the dot if it's not the firedot. Despite the limitations, the VX5/6 are a good value when you get them at often discounted prices and I have several on my most used hunting rifles.

For illumination, the Zeiss Victory scopes have the best setup. A button on the ocular surrounded by a knob to adjust intensity, the quickest and most intuitive ergonomics. The dot is an extremely fine point and can go from night time dim to full sunlight bright range. I wish Zeiss would offer better reticle options, for wind hold at longer ranges. Great optics and eyebox on the V8 - I was able to shoot flying birds while using the scope on my BD14 even.

I haven't been a Swaro owner until recently. I got a Z8i 2.3-18x56 with the 4W-I reticle. This is the perfect reticle IMO for maximum utility. Clean enough for snap shots in thick brush yet able get accurate wind holds on longer shots. Shame on Swaro for not offering it in the rail version of this scope. The illumination isn't up to Zeiss standards, but it's good. My main complaint is the dot is a little too large and the brightness adjustment is button tapping rather than a knob. The 3 position switch for night/off/day illumination settings is clever though. The optional ballistic turret is ok, but the locking feature is a lot less elegant than Leupold's solution, or even Zeiss for that matter.

 

[SStomcat]

In general or shall I say I lap all my rings.

I just mounted a 4-14x40 Vari-X III on a .300Wby with Talley rings and I still lapped them.

Morris at Alaskan Arms goes a step further, he paints the inside of the ring with a very thin coat of liquid electrical tape and then torques to spec, I tried it and have been doing that too ever since.

Even if the part is machined to exact tolerence, there is still the issue of the finish and how it will may flow to sharp edges changing tolerence.

So again, I lap all my rings now.... Just don't over lap them.

So after lapping and using scope alignment tool are the points supposed to align horizontally and vertically or just horizontally?
I ask as the rear mount is generally higher than the front to along the scope with barrel contour.

 

[Smitty]

I love Trijicon, BUT be aware that they accupoint does not have locking turrets. If you buy the model with capped turrets, it doesn't matter. If you buy own with dial-up turrets, I would not get a scope without locking turrets on a DG rifle. I missed the biggest buck of my life because the turret moved while I was hiking in that morning. Just something to consider.

 

[M98Man]

Schmidt Bender all day long

 

[SStomcat]

Schmidt Bender all day long

They make great glass and scopes which are built like a tank, all metal construction and heavy and rugged. They are more suitable from a tactical and military standpoint but in this range Swaro is recommended for balance, features, optical light and clarity, more tuned for hunting. This is what my research tells me. I own a low end Swaro but no S&B.

 

[SStomcat]

So after lapping and using scope alignment tool are the points supposed to align horizontally and vertically or just horizontally?
I ask as the rear mount is generally higher than the front to along the scope with barrel contour.

For the first time I lapped my rings and was able to aling horizontally to the T. However vertically there seems to be a small (less than a mm at the points) misalignment as the rear being high.Is this OK or as expected?

 

[M98Man]

For the first time I lapped my rings and was able to aling horizontally to the T. However vertically there seems to be a small (less than a mm at the points) misalignment as the rear being high.Is this OK or as expected?

If it’s high at the rear you’ll be shooting high, possibly very high! There’s a risk you could run out of adjustment range, so I’d be using f a collimator to ensure you don’t go to the full effort and then find at the range you are maxed out elevation adjustment wise and hitting 8” above the bull.

 

[M98Man]

They make great glass and scopes which are built like a tank, all metal construction and heavy and rugged. They are more suitable from a tactical and military standpoint but in this range Swaro is recommended for balance, features, optical light and clarity, more tuned for hunting. This is what my research tells me. I own a low end Swaro but no S&B.

Had many swaros and sold them all. Found the build quality flimsy and I’ve had more repairs needed with swaros than any Zeiss or Schmidt. In fact, never had a Schmidt needing repairs. Swaros issues have been with loose fitting ocular rings, lenses coming lose, snapped reticles, turrets seizing or springs needing replacement. Schmidt (hunting range) are not heavy, they’re just buildt strong and with possibly the best low light glass in any scope out there. The polar will beat any swaro on the market, hands down.

If I was to take one scope to a place on earth where I want it to work and zero risk of any issues, I’d bring a Schmidt, nothing else.

Until you’ve owned one, you have t seen the light my friend

 

[mark-hunter]

I would like to do a buffalo hunt one day, but not basing this purchase on that hunt. I can change the scope out when I make that trip if I feel so inclined. I have a tendency to “rabbit hole” myself when doing research. Not really a question per se, just through I would post what I noticed and see what this group had to say.

I have no experience with Leupold, but I live across the pond. (more influence from European brands)

My 375 H&H scope is Swarovski Z6, 1.7-10x42.
Out of 5 safaris I did till now, I took Z6 twice to Africa. to include a buffalo as well.
3 other times I was using local guns, and various scopes they rented in camp. (not leupold)

Now, if you will take for it is worth, my choice for this scope get to be best possible for safari conditions in my opinion.

If I were to buy a scope for all round European hunting I would probably choose at least 50 mm front lenses.

 

[Xpraetor]

Leopold is a decent optic, but for the life of me can't understand why that company refuses to put a decent reticle on a 3-9x40! It's always a freakin' crosshair! It wasn't until the "Rifleman" did they decide to put a couple of lil' hold over dots for elevation hold overs .... Trijicon is a good optic also, and has been in the illumination game longer than most. For close in, inside 200yds, AimPoint has some very good illuminated optics.
Meopta is another not mentioned, has good glass & useful reticles other then a crosshair.

However, if you have the coin , S&B would be the one to pick for a hunting rifle if you are plannong on shooting out to 300yds or beyond.

 

[M98Man]

I’m not sure I’d attribute Schmidt Bender scopes with longer or shorter range shooting. Sure, their PM2 scopes are amazing, but not hunting scopes.

Over here we pick SB for dead solid and dependable ruggedness, best glass even compared to Zeiss and Leica. The Polar is incomparable, just draw dropping clear.

Personally I don’t like anything cluttered reticle wise, simple cross hairs or No.1 style reticle is perfect. Zero at MPBR and point and shoot. If it’s further than MPBR, you should probably be dialling anyway, as wind will be the reason you miss, not elevation adjustment - but that stuff isn’t hunting.

Hell, I’d sell you a good old Schmidt and Bender German 6x42 with No.1 reticle and 26mm tube for $350 if you wanted. They are only expensive ‘new’.

 

[Altitude sickness]

For the first time I lapped my rings and was able to aling horizontally to the T. However vertically there seems to be a small (less than a mm at the points) misalignment as the rear being high.Is this OK or as expected?

No that is not ok. Left, right. Up and down need to be bind free.

If the rear is slightly higher. That means the bottom front and rear top edges of the ring has most of the pressure applied. It’s not 100% even pressure across the surface of the rings. That’s more of a pinch than friction across the entire surface.

Either the action, the bases or the rings aren’t perfect.

 

[Xpraetor]

@M98Man

Appreciate your perspective, and you are correct, and in reality any optic can be used "long range" , I base the opinion I gave on experience I have had with S&B, which has been from hunters in camp who had one mounted. Those examples were great quality & excellent glass, and my view on S&B for "long" range, is because 90% of what I've seen S&B offer is over an 40mm objective, and long range (over 300yds) is the only reason to mount a *hunting* optic/scope with an objective over 40mm - for qudra-peds. Big honkin' scopes on a mid range caliber is un-necessary in my opinion, but that is my opinion & I am not an expert. I am sure there are many who will disagree with "my" opinion.
Hell, in another life, I used to rifle qual out to 500yds/500m with iron sights. Shooting is skill, any adornment to a firearm is just a multiplier.

When flat ground shooting "blank" hold overs are fine, but in the Mountains, shooting "up" to a target or across a drainage "down" to a target, markings on a reticle help, immensely. Especially when the person behind the rifle doesn't have a lot of experience, it makes it easier to get them on target & not miss. Majority of hunters have zero understanding of ---- H-Distance , Slope Angle - incline/decline , Cosine , etc, etc.....

.... the furthest shot in the areas where we hunt is 300yds, and vegetation, along with uneven terrain are a constant. Although anecdotal, I have a cheap Leupold VX-3 4.5-14x40 on a .338WM, have never taken a shot over 280yds with that setup, except when at the Range and that was just to compile a dope card. There is no "quick dialing" with that scope design, it has a freakin' duplex reticle, and why I refrain from shooting any further inspite of that rounds ability to go farther. Another anecdotal example, we have a loner / backup rifle for hunters its a .30-06 Sprg with an even cheaper G1 Nikon Buckmaster 3-9x40 with the BDS reticle. That setup is by & far a better optic to use simply because it has 2 stupid little circles in the lower quadrant.

As for buying an S&B , I live in a very rural area, it's a 20min drive just to get to a gas station. I buy what my local Gun Shop carries, or when I attend the occasional Gun Show. Only way to buy an S&B is online, which I don't do internet purchases, my Wife & Son do, and my Son is why I have the majority of oddball stuff. Plus parcel delivery sucks here, hell even USPS sucks in the 21st cent.

The caveat to everything is CONTEXT, and in the OP's case there has been a wealth of knowledge provided (mine excluded), however having reference points on a reticle, in my opinion are very advantageous, atleast in the Area / Terrain where I hunt.

 

[Tex .416]

@M98Man

Appreciate your perspective, and you are correct, and in reality any optic can be used "long range" , I base the opinion I gave on experience I have had with S&B, which has been from hunters in camp who had one mounted. Those examples were great quality & excellent glass, and my view on S&B for "long" range, is because 90% of what I've seen S&B offer is over an 40mm objective, and long range (over 300yds) is the only reason to mount a *hunting* optic/scope with an objective over 40mm - for qudra-peds. Big honkin' scopes on a mid range caliber is un-necessary in my opinion, but that is my opinion & I am not an expert. I am sure there are many who will disagree with "my" opinion.

Larger objectives and higher magnification are helpful in close as well when precise shot placement is preferred. Larger objectives help with light gathering. I have shot pigs under moonlight before as one example. Shot placement to the brain or spine is helpful to drop cull animals where they stand to make loading them easier and to avoid having to crawl through thorn brush with snakes.

 

[Beck]

Perfect scope for a .375 it would be even better if you could find on with a BDC-3 reticle.

https://www.eurooptic.com/meopta-meostar-r2-17-10x42-rd-4k-reticle-sfp-red-illuminated-573860

 

[Xpraetor]

Larger objectives and higher magnification are helpful in close as well when precise shot placement is preferred. Larger objectives help with light gathering. I have shot pigs under moonlight before as one example. Shot placement to the brain or spine is helpful to drop cull animals where they stand to make loading them easier and to avoid having to crawl through thorn brush with snakes.

View attachment 781757

I didn't refute that higher magnification or a 50mm objective isn't useful, I just gave an opinion that all of that *extra isn't necessary with shots taken inside 300yds.

The average hunter isn't making deliberate "head shots" on a hunt, most are doing good to make a good broad side shot, but I get your point.

 

[Tex .416]

The average hunter isn't making deliberate "head shots" on a hunt, most are doing good to make a good broad side shot, but I get your point.

101% truth.