New rifle choices

Borderer

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For the last 10 years or so, I have had a 30-06 and a .17 Hornet. Foolishly, I sold my Heym 30-06 to get what looked like a very smart customised Mauser action 30-06. I have no end of trouble with it and have sent it away to a gunsmith who specualises in Mauser Actioned rifles. He called yesterday to say that someone has tried to modify the magazine with a grinder and has then made a mess of bedding the stock before grinding parts of the action off to fit the bedding, then re-bluing. It is well beyond economic repair.

A relative died recently and left me his .240 Apex. I am certain I want to keep this, there is a lot of family history in this particular rifle. It has been in the same family for 98 years and we have a record of the many stags shot with it. As I am in the UK, I am now precluded from owning another rifle of a similar calibre.

The same person also had a very nice .375 H and H, but I have no idea what sort of condition it is in now. Both are hand made British rifles but have been stored in a very damp gun room and the previous owner spent the last 60 years using up his stock of Cordite ammunition in them, so I am expecting them to be poor, although I could purchase the .375 cheaply from the relative who now has it. There is no particular family history to this one.

I am trying to decide what to do.

My shooting at home is roe and pest control, mainly crows in the lambing fields, red deer on an estate that only allows rifles between 6.5x55 - 30-06 which must be used with a moderator and copper ammunition and I am going to Namibia later this year to hunt plains game.

I took the 30-06 to Mozambique last year and it worked well on game up to Kudu, although the advice I was given was to bring a .375 next time, then it gives me the option for larger game and puts animals down faster in thick bush.

The PH in Namibia has said that I should use a moderated rifle to prevent disturbance and we will be hunting Impala to Eland. He has asked me not to bring the .375, as unmoderated it will cause too much disturbance. He recommends an 8x68.

I am planning a cull buffalo hunt at some point in the future, when funds permit.

My question is should I apply for a Schultz and Larsen or Blaser R8 with switch barrels in a .22 centrefire (Roe / vermin) something around a 7x57 / 270 (red deer) and a 9.3 with moderator for plains game or a .30-06 and a .375? I was thinking of a .22 centrefire, the .240 for roe and an 8x68 for red deer and plains game but I was advised that my local police force will not allow anything above .30-06 for domestic use and when I applied for the .30-06, I was told that it was only granted as I had an African trip booked, as it to considered by my local force to be too powerful for UK use alone (they do not generally issue above .308)

My alternative is to keep the .17, buy the .375 and get another .30-06, although the Firearms Licencing Officer has told me that it would be easier to get permission for an additional barrel than another rifle and I like the idea of using the same action for everything. I should probably sell the .240 but don't have the heart to do it.

It will probably take 3 months to get permission to acquire a rifle, so I need to make a decision. I also don't want to end up with too many rifles, aside from our very strict licencing.

Any thoughts?
 
In your situation I like the idea of an R8. 7x57/9.3x62 would be a great combination if your buffalo hunt will be in an area that allows the 9.3.
 
In your situation I like the idea of an R8. 7x57/9.3x62 would be a great combination if your buffalo hunt will be in an area that allows the 9.3.
I think you are probably correct. Only slight doubt is that my local gun shop has a Paul Roberts (ex Rigby) .275 for the same price as a second hand Blaser R8... Nicer, but probably less practical
 
Your firearms ownership restrictions make for very difficult choices.
 
I agree with @WAB for the animals you hunt and plan to hunt the 7x57 and 9.3x62 will work great. the R8 platform makes sense in your situation with the license headaches you have to go through.
 
I agree with WAB. Quite the predicament.. It appears to me that the answer to your problem is the R8
 
Ugh - what a mess. If you are a member of the BASC they might be able to help out with solicitors prepared to argue your corner. The main problem seems to be the uncooperative nature of your local plod, although both your local landowner (I'm guessing the Forestry Commission) and PH are not overly helpful, either. You appear to be England-based, as the Scots - at least the ones I dealt with - were always a bit more helpful. The idea that a 30-06 is somehow more deadly than a .308 is stupid.

There are ways of getting around the prohibition on two similar calibres; the easiest is to say that they are zeroed to different ranges, which sometimes works.

Personally, I'd be very tempted to keep the .375 and get it back into commission, especially if it has a history. A new barrel should not be any more expensive (around £900) than a new rifle. Sassen Engineering, which would be the obvious first port of call, has unfortunately just gone into liquidation. Gunsmiths to approach would be Paul Roberts and Lee Butler. I suppose that it is possible to moderate a big bore rifle, but I have never heard of it or come across such a rifle, and I suspect that you would be spending money to go along with your PH's whims and which you will never get back. I am afraid that this is one instance where you should put your foot down and insist on being allowed to use your own rifle or go elsewhere.

As for a moderated deer stalking rifle, the world is your lobster. .270 is a good choice, as is a .308, the .308 giving you a bit more thump should you wish to take it to Africa. A 7mm. Remington Magnum, and the .300 Winchester Magnum/ H&H, give you some flexibility for long range shooting in Namibia, although these are really too big for red deer - I have twice managed to shoot two deer with one bullet with my 7mm. Steyr Mannlicher make a specialised non-lead rifle (which presumably allows for the longer copper bullets) and associated suppressors, which might be your easiest way to go (if you can stomach buying from them).

For buffalo, I am convinced that a .375 is too small (unless you are going for brain shots with a monolithic bullet). Before I provoke a pile-on, the issue is not hitting them but stopping them, and being able to get out of trouble if things go wrong.

The Blaser system is a very impressive piece of engineering. It is also completely soulless. If you have a lead on 'a very nice .375 H and H, but I have no idea what sort of condition it is in now [... a] hand made British rifle' that, to me, would be a far more interesting and attractive proposition than an R8.

Good luck! Do let us know how you get on.
 
The Blaser system is a very impressive piece of engineering. It is also completely soulless. If you have a lead on 'a very nice .375 H and H, but I have no idea what sort of condition it is in now [... a] hand made British rifle' that, to me, would be a far more interesting and attractive proposition than an R8.
Agreed!!
 
With the outfitter I would tell him you are entitled to bring whatever rifle you own and want to use...too much disturbance...really...place must get the shit shot out of it....we don't have any such issues...as for your rifle problems....if you can afford it go for the 275 Paul built and either a 9.3x62 ...depending where you go I would have thought be OK on a cull buff...but you would have to check...I would go see the 375 and see what condition its in...if you haven't looked you will never know....could be still fine or just need a little bit of care....
 
Ugh - what a mess. If you are a member of the BASC they might be able to help out with solicitors prepared to argue your corner. The main problem seems to be the uncooperative nature of your local plod, although both your local landowner (I'm guessing the Forestry Commission) and PH are not overly helpful, either. You appear to be England-based, as the Scots - at least the ones I dealt with - were always a bit more helpful. The idea that a 30-06 is somehow more deadly than a .308 is stupid.

There are ways of getting around the prohibition on two similar calibres; the easiest is to say that they are zeroed to different ranges, which sometimes works.

Personally, I'd be very tempted to keep the .375 and get it back into commission, especially if it has a history. A new barrel should not be any more expensive (around £900) than a new rifle. Sassen Engineering, which would be the obvious first port of call, has unfortunately just gone into liquidation. Gunsmiths to approach would be Paul Roberts and Lee Butler. I suppose that it is possible to moderate a big bore rifle, but I have never heard of it or come across such a rifle, and I suspect that you would be spending money to go along with your PH's whims and which you will never get back. I am afraid that this is one instance where you should put your foot down and insist on being allowed to use your own rifle or go elsewhere.

As for a moderated deer stalking rifle, the world is your lobster. .270 is a good choice, as is a .308, the .308 giving you a bit more thump should you wish to take it to Africa. A 7mm. Remington Magnum, and the .300 Winchester Magnum/ H&H, give you some flexibility for long range shooting in Namibia, although these are really too big for red deer - I have twice managed to shoot two deer with one bullet with my 7mm. Steyr Mannlicher make a specialised non-lead rifle (which presumably allows for the longer copper bullets) and associated suppressors, which might be your easiest way to go (if you can stomach buying from them).

For buffalo, I am convinced that a .375 is too small (unless you are going for brain shots with a monolithic bullet). Before I provoke a pile-on, the issue is not hitting them but stopping them, and being able to get out of trouble if things go wrong.

The Blaser system is a very impressive piece of engineering. It is also completely soulless. If you have a lead on 'a very nice .375 H and H, but I have no idea what sort of condition it is in now [... a] hand made British rifle' that, to me, would be a far more interesting and attractive proposition than an R8.

Good luck! Do let us know how you get on.
Thanks, that is very helpful. I am in England although as my name suggests only by a field! I stalk both sides of the border.

It is not a Forestry Scotland lease, it is a private landowner, but the owners have implemented the policies above. This is because the venison all goes to a dealer who will only take copper shot animals and they have had issues with copper in calibres less than 6.5mm. They are great people and it is their estate, so their rules. I stalk as a guest so am in absolutely no position to argue!

To be honest, the FEO is a decent guy, but I think is under pressure. I have never had any issue with him but don't want to. He is very happy to have a chat to discuss possible variations first and has said that there is no issue with a bigger rifle provided that is is conditioned not to be used in the UK except to zero it.

The PH made his rules on moderators clear before I booked and has been very helpful. Again, I am inclined to think that I cannot argue and wind him up if he made the moderator rule clear at the outset and I don't really want to go elsewhere, particularly as flights etc are now booked. In any case, I could hire his 8x68, which is a moderated Sauer 404.
 
With the outfitter I would tell him you are entitled to bring whatever rifle you own and want to use...too much disturbance...really...place must get the shit shot out of it....we don't have any such issues...as for your rifle problems....if you can afford it go for the 275 Paul built and either a 9.3x62 ...depending where you go I would have thought be OK on a cull buff...but you would have to check...I would go see the 375 and see what condition its in...if you haven't looked you will never know....could be still fine or just need a little bit of care....
Good point. I was told that the owners do not like to see herds disturbed. I can see the reasoning, as this is why most Scottish estates insist on moderated rifles. I have noticed a difference in culling roe here with a moderated rifle, often if you shoot one animal out of a herd, the others look up, then continue feeding.

I will have a look in to the 375. It is a total unknown really, hasn't been used much but has languished in a gun room for decades, then with an RFD for several years. Seems worth looking in to though.

The other rifle I now have from the same gunroom is terrible, totally covered in rust and the bore is full of what looks like rusty cotton wool. There was water running down the wall of the gunroom when i collected it.

You don't think the benefits of a single rifle with multiple barrels in terms of familiarity etc outweigh the costs?
 
Is "moderator" the UK name for suppressor?
 
Thinking about it, through my previous work, I have spent a lot of time on stalking estates (not actually involved in the stalking) and have seen several guests being told to leave their rifle in the safe and use the estate rifle or go home, normally after turning up with rifles that are not zeroed, don't have a moderator, are single shots, or most often because it is a .243. I know of one estate who turn guests away who cannot fit a bipod to their rifles. As an aside, these estates in question will supply excellent modern rifles with first class scopes free of charge.

Most Highland stalkers in my experience are fairly exacting, mainly because they have to deal with the fall out when things go wrong and I suppose they can be because demand for stalking outstrips supply.
 
I have twice been refused authority to use my own rifles when stalking; frankly, I think it's a bloody cheek, especially as the second time that it happened I had gone to the trouble advising exactly what rifles I would be bringing beforehand.

The first time it happened, Galbraith's (the sporting agent) tried to charge me rent for the use of the estate rifle and was told to f- off. The second time, Hendry was the sporting agent and I withheld some of the fee. That certainly got their attention, and a rather rude e-mail to me!

A .243 is illegal to use on red deer in Scotland - rightly, in my opinion, because it is too small - so that is a separate issue. However any competent client ought to be able to hit a target at 100 yards, irrespective of moderator, bipod, or magazine capacity. I have gone out with some very good stalkers, but also some pretty incompetent ones as well, who did not know the ground. A good trick is to ask them the names of the hills, and if they can't answer you know that you're with a hired gun who has been brought in for the day.

As a young man I did a lot of stalking on Mull, but now I take stalking and try and get a different forest every year. Every time I have problems, because what I am promised is far more than what is delivered. I have never come across so many shamelessly dishonest people. The one estate which was completely honest was Letterewe - unfortunately, that was the most expensive as well!

Apologies for going off-topic.
 
Geez……………..this all gave me a headache. I say it’s time to move. :cool:;)
 

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