new cartridge

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This is why I like this guy. He is a true gentleman who jokes well with folks.
@Forrest Halley
Who said I was joking with @CoElkHunter, he us a top bloke but shit he's hard to educate about 25s and 35s. one day he will learn of their virtues
Bob
20200312_160332.jpg
 
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i am starting to feel that bob is becoming a scapegoat and a victim in all this.
bruce.
@bruce moulds
I don't mind mate. When I had my shoulder surgery done I got the to put thicker Teflon plates on both shoulders. Now the shit slides off quicker than it can be slung.
Remember I also give as good as I get that way we all have fun.
Haven't heard from @CBH Chris lately. Hopefully he is ok. Probably out at the range having fun with his new 280AI.
Bob
 

CoElkHunter

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@Forrest Halley
Who said I was joking with @CoElkHunter, he us a top bloke but shit he's hard to educate about 25s and 35s. one day he will learn of their virtues
Bob
I am partial to 100 year old guns and cartridges like 30-06, 303 british, 9.3x62, 35 rem 30 rem. 9x56 MS, my not quite a hundred 250-3000 savage.

Fine bullets for groundhogs.
And I’m not opposed to well thought out “new” cartridges, but it just seems to me that many were created as a marketing gimmick to increase sales of rifles and ammo to outperform their competitors. I’m sure a lot were sold initially, and time will tell if they ultimately end up in the flash in the pan purgatory? Many of them are there already.
 

CoElkHunter

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i am starting to feel that bob is becoming a scapegoat and a victim in all this.
bruce.
Bruce,
He’s probably both! Ha! Ha! But in a little seriousness, if it weren’t for Bob on here with his insightfulness and humor, we would be bored a lot of the time. Bob and his Bundy to the rescue!
CEH
 
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And I’m not opposed to well thought out “new” cartridges, but it just seems to me that many were created as a marketing gimmick to increase sales of rifles and ammo to outperform their competitors. I’m sure a lot were sold initially, and time will tell if they ultimately end up in the flash in the pan purgatory? Many of them are there already.
@CoElkHunter
You don't hear much of the 204 Ruger n ow days. One cartridge I do miss never owned one but a,mate did was the 5 mm Remington magnum rimfire. The ideal compromise between the 17HMR and the 22WMR and in my humble opinion better than both.
All the boffins had to do was put faster twist barrels on the 270 WSM and use heavier bullet. Shit even Roy Weatherby did this with the 257 going from a 1 in 12 to a 1in 10 twist.
If we could only get boffins to bring out the 22/250 with a 1 in 7 twist so it could handle the sleak 90 grainers there wouldn't be a need for the 6mms ( not that there is now). It would be a lot easier to go from .224 to .257 with no stop in the middle. You never know it might even give the 6.5 man Bun a shake up.
We all live in hope but hey bullshit sells. Look how well the 6mm Winchester did even after people realize the velocities were pie in the sky, but hey the bullshit had already stuck.
Bob
 

MS 9x56

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@bruce moulds
I partially agree with your statement about the 6.5, 270 and 7mms killing better than the 25s. If velocities are similar then yes they do but when the 25s are started at up to 300 to 400 fps faster then it's a different story.
It's a bit like saying a 308 win will kill as well as a 300 Weatherby way out yonder.
Bob
As there is only one degree of dead I must respectfully disagree with both of you. If the critter is dead there is no such state as better dead. Not that I would know as I am firmly planted in the Elmer Keith camp. But I hear some gun rag writers say that the less muzzle blast and recoil allows shooters to better aim and shoot. I have my doubts at that and believe it is just some drivel started by the limp wristed 270 toting Jack O'Connor. Just one old hunters opinion.
 

MS 9x56

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whatever else you say, bob sure has lifted the profile of the 35 whelen.
the load we put on his shoulders has caused the need for surgery, but as he says he will now have even better shoulders.
bruce.
With them new shoulders Bob might be able to upgrade to a 35 Whelan AI.
 
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As there is only one degree of dead I must respectfully disagree with both of you. If the critter is dead there is no such state as better dead. Not that I would know as I am firmly planted in the Elmer Keith camp. But I hear some gun rag writers say that the less muzzle blast and recoil allows shooters to better aim and shoot. I have my doubts at that and believe it is just some drivel started by the limp wristed 270 toting Jack O'Connor. Just one old hunters opinion.
@MS 9x56
In t huge many years I have been hunting there are some cartridges that appear to kill more emphatically than others. The 25s and 35s seen to work very well in this department. Yes it may depend on bullet construction to an extent but I have seen my 25 drop goats quicker with 100 grain corelock than a 270 using 130 grain corelock.. velocity seems to play a,big part in the smaller calibers under 7mm.
But as you said dead is dead. I like the calibers I use because I very rarely have to track an animal if I do my part.
Bob
 

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@CoElkHunter
You don't hear much of the 204 Ruger n ow days. One cartridge I do miss never owned one but a,mate did was the 5 mm Remington magnum rimfire. The ideal compromise between the 17HMR and the 22WMR and in my humble opinion better than both.
All the boffins had to do was put faster twist barrels on the 270 WSM and use heavier bullet. Shit even Roy Weatherby did this with the 257 going from a 1 in 12 to a 1in 10 twist.
If we could only get boffins to bring out the 22/250 with a 1 in 7 twist so it could handle the sleak 90 grainers there wouldn't be a need for the 6mms ( not that there is now). It would be a lot easier to go from .224 to .257 with no stop in the middle. You never know it might even give the 6.5 man Bun a shake up.
We all live in hope but hey bullshit sells. Look how well the 6mm Winchester did even after people realize the velocities were pie in the sky, but hey the bullshit had already stuck.
Bob
Bob,
Whe Remington came out with the .244 Remington in the ‘50s, the twist rate was too slow to stabilize 100gr bullets. They corrected that when the 6mm was introduced. I think that’s a great idea with the .22-250 having a faster twist rate and being able to use heavier bullets. I think it work great on smaller deer and pronghorn sized critters. But, why would the manufacturers do that, when they could just create another latest and greatest cartridge for sale to the gullible?
CEH
 
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With them new shoulders Bob might be able to upgrade to a 35 Whelan AI.
@ MS 9X56
I have a beautiful M17 35 Whelen AI but I prefer the straight Whelen because I don't have to fireform and play around. Both good cartridges tho. If'n you lived in OZ I might have been able to sell you the AI.
BOB
20210220_125903.jpg

The 35 Whelen AI
 

Tra3

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In all seriousness, what do you all think is going to be the next “latest n’ greatest” caliber on the market?
I’d say it has to seem like a mild-recoiling rifle but on paper it has to be good for long range. This 6.8 western sure does try to get all the ideas in one caliber, without admitting to being just like the rest. The .270 grouping has gotten a lot of push/innovation lately, following on the heels of the 6.5 craze. I don’t think they will go bigger. I’d guess the next invention is in the .25’s.

Above mentioned is the .22-250 with a faster twist and heavier bullets. That would be awesome, but wouldn’t it pretty much be a .243?
 

CoElkHunter

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In all seriousness, what do you all think is going to be the next “latest n’ greatest” caliber on the market?
I’d say it has to seem like a mild-recoiling rifle but on paper it has to be good for long range. This 6.8 western sure does try to get all the ideas in one caliber, without admitting to being just like the rest. The .270 grouping has gotten a lot of push/innovation lately, following on the heels of the 6.5 craze. I don’t think they will go bigger. I’d guess the next invention is in the .25’s.

Above mentioned is the .22-250 with a faster twist and heavier bullets. That would be awesome, but wouldn’t it pretty much be a .243?
I too will be interested to see what the next “greatest” cartridge will be? I think if someone already owns a .25-06, .260, .270, etc., the newest offerings are just that, “new”, but to what end are they better for the average hunter at normal hunting ranges? Sure, if one is a new hunter I’m sure they are very appealing cartridges, especially with the many reasonably priced rifles available (usually) and promises of long range conquests of game. But, more new cartridges will surely be forthcoming. Your comment on the heavier bullets in the .22-250 and the .243 is very true. No real advantage with the .22-250 using heavier bullets, unless your someone like Bob Nelson 35 Whelen and refuses to own/shoot a .243? Ha! Ha!
 
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In all seriousness, what do you all think is going to be the next “latest n’ greatest” caliber on the market?
I’d say it has to seem like a mild-recoiling rifle but on paper it has to be good for long range. This 6.8 western sure does try to get all the ideas in one caliber, without admitting to being just like the rest. The .270 grouping has gotten a lot of push/innovation lately, following on the heels of the 6.5 craze. I don’t think they will go bigger. I’d guess the next invention is in the .25’s.

Above mentioned is the .22-250 with a faster twist and heavier bullets. That would be awesome, but wouldn’t it pretty much be a .243?
@Tra3
Why did you have to mention that horrible little 243. The 22/250 with heavy bullets negates it to the place it should be. The bin.
A fast 25 with a 1 in 8 twist and a 140grain bullet would be awesome.
Bob
 
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Bob,
Whe Remington came out with the .244 Remington in the ‘50s, the twist rate was too slow to stabilize 100gr bullets. They corrected that when the 6mm was introduced. I think that’s a great idea with the .22-250 having a faster twist rate and being able to use heavier bullets. I think it work great on smaller deer and pronghorn sized critters. But, why would the manufacturers do that, when they could just create another latest and greatest cartridge for sale to the gullible?
CEH
@CoElkHunter
The 6mm Remington is, was and always be a better cartridge than the Winchester. This is where boffins bullshit wins. The 6mm Remington would still stabilize the 90 and 95 grainers with its original twist rate. The boffins at Winchester threw enough bullshit that theirs was better with 100 grain killed better to make the Remington fade away. Joe public believed all this crap.
5 grains bullet weight with a slower twist ain't gonna mean diddly squat to a deer but boffins bullshit told people it does. Go figure cartridge companies still use the same tactics and people still believe it.
Bob
 

bruce moulds

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yes bob, and it is a bit the same as the politicians we elect too.
people believe what they want to hear, and that usually means what is easier.
one day we will all wake up and discover there are no free lunches and the economy will collapse.
bruce.
 
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yes bob, and it is a bit the same as the politicians we elect too.
people believe what they want to hear, and that usually means what is easier.
one day we will all wake up and discover there are no free lunches and the economy will collapse.
bruce.
@ bruce moulds
No free lunches for us poor working class people but we pay so the Pollies can have their free lunches.
Should be the other way round if they want our vote.
Bob
 

bruce moulds

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that is the point bob.
however we continue to accept their corruption and excesses that they feel are their right, and watch the sexual antics going on in parliament house that nothing is done about and we turn around and re elect them so they can continue on in privelidge.
and we accept their lies again and again.
and have you ever noticed how neither party argues against another when a wage rise is mooted for them.
so we end up with crap politicians, crap rifles, and crap cartridges, in the fairyland hope that life will be easier for us.
bruce.
 

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