My New (Old) Rifle!

[WebleyGreene455]

Bought this Mauser 98 sporter last Friday, picked it up at my gun shop yesterday. 7.92x57mm, spoon/knife bolt handle, objective-type scope mount. Scope's a single-post-reticle, 4x magnification. Front sight seems to have a silver bead on it. Pretty much zero markings on it, so I don't know how old the rifle is or anything but I think there's an Imperial German proof on the bolt somewhere. There's a crack in the grip but either I'll find a way to repair it or I'll have the stock duplicated if need be.

This is the basis for my Mauser project. At the moment I'm planning to do a little maintenance work, change it to 9.3x62mm, add a recoil lug in the stock, and put a Rigby-style aperture on the cocking piece. The rifle's pretty lightweight, though, so I may end up adding some weight or a recoil reducer to the stock. Debating either just reboring/rechambering the barrel or completely changing it to a ribbed octagonal one. I'd intended to refinish it with color-case on the receiver and trigger guard, but I'm not 100% sure I wanna do that anymore.

 

[Standard Velocity]

The manufacturers logo is probably under the front claw mount. If it has been screwed on you could look underneath but it looks like it may have been braised on.

It has the thumb cutout for stripper clips so it was military.

The stock has already been repaired at the wrist with the crossbolt. A good epoxy repair could hold it but the caliber you want to switch to is fairly heavy recoiling. No loss to just replace it.

It will probably be cheaper to replace the barrel. If you really like the sights you could unsolder them to reuse but you’re already going to have to send it to NECG have your new scope fitted to the claw mount. Might as well use their sights.

Nice gun that’ll serve you well.

 

[WebleyGreene455]

The manufacturers logo is probably under the front claw mount. If it has been screwed on you could look underneath but it looks like it may have been braised on.

It has the thumb cutout for stripper clips so it was military.

The stock has already been repaired at the wrist with the crossbolt. A good epoxy repair could hold it but the caliber you want to switch to is fairly heavy recoiling. No loss to just replace it.

It will probably be cheaper to replace the barrel. If you really like the sights you could unsolder them to reuse but you’re already going to have to send it to NECG have your new scope fitted to the claw mount. Might as well use their sights.

Nice gun that’ll serve you well.

Well replacing the stock would be annoying but I'd anticipated it. And with the need for a proper recoil lug and probably a new barrel channel, I might as well. No loss to anything but my wallet, but on the other hand I've essentially paid for an action, double-set trigger, scope, pre-installed mount, and a stock pattern so it's not so bad as it could be. But I want an exact, or near-exact, duplicate of that stock (in fact, I might even want the crossbolt repair included just because I kinda like it), so if you have any suggestions for someone to do that, I'd appreciate them.

I don't like the sights and don't really need them; like I said, I'll be putting a Rigby-style aperture to the cocking piece and the front sight would probably be a NECG ramp (or at least an insert since one of the barrel options has an integrated ramp). But uh I don't have a new scope and don't plan on fitting a different one to this rifle, so there's no especial need to worry about the mounts or send it in to NECG. There's a slight bit of wobble but a shim and a new spring in the rear mount should take care of that issue.

Also a stripper-clip thumb cutout does not a military rifle make. Many commercial rifles under the Mauser tab here have one: https://simpsonltd.com/long-guns/mauser/

 

[Red Leg]

Well replacing the stock would be annoying but I'd anticipated it. And with the need for a proper recoil lug and probably a new barrel channel, I might as well. No loss to anything but my wallet, but on the other hand I've essentially paid for an action, double-set trigger, scope, pre-installed mount, and a stock pattern so it's not so bad as it could be. But I want an exact, or near-exact, duplicate of that stock (in fact, I might even want the crossbolt repair included just because I kinda like it), so if you have any suggestions for someone to do that, I'd appreciate them.

I don't like the sights and don't really need them; like I said, I'll be putting a Rigby-style aperture to the cocking piece and the front sight would probably be a NECG ramp (or at least an insert since one of the barrel options has an integrated ramp). But uh I don't have a new scope and don't plan on fitting a different one to this rifle, so there's no especial need to worry about the mounts or send it in to NECG. There's a slight bit of wobble but a shim and a new spring in the rear mount should take care of that issue.

Also a stripper-clip thumb cutout does not a military rifle make. Many commercial rifles under the Mauser tab here have one: https://simpsonltd.com/long-guns/mauser/

With respect to the cut out, it means the maker used a standard military action as the basis of the rifle. Oberndorf itself did it on their classic sporters (just diverted from production) as did a host of individual gunmakers. This is not one of the Oberndorf pattern stocks, so it is likely what is called a “guild” gun built by a member of the gunmakers guild prior to WWII. In fact, judging by the unevenness of the stock side plates, the checkering, and the strange step down at the grip and forend, I would wager this is a cruder copy of the original stock. If you decide to shoot it in that caliber, you need to determine whether it is a .318 or .323 8mm. I would guess .318.

Whenever it was made, that stock was never designed for 9.3 recoil, it obviously couldn’t handle 8mm. The cross-bolt through the grip looks like what it is - a pretty crude repair by a shade tree gunsmith. I wouldn’t retain or replicate it in a new stock. A good stock maker can replicate that style (without the step down) in a new sturdier version, though that will be a significant investment.

Not sure where you are located, but if in the US, a gunsmith like JJ Perodeau can fit a set of rings to those bases in which you can use a modern straight tube scope. Fitting a ring to a specific objective is a very expensive undertaking - not that JJ’s work would be cheap.

It is your money, but I would suggest you really think through trying to restore this rifle. Just from the photos, you would be looking at several thousand dollars. I have over the years brought several such relics back from the brink, and the end products are worth perhaps 50% of the investment. It could be an interesting project, but there are lots of these between the wars sporters out there, and one in outstanding shape will cost far less than the restoration you seem to be contemplating.

 

[WebleyGreene455]

With respect to the cut out, it means the maker used a standard military action as the basis of the rifle. Oberndorf itself did it on their classic sporters (just diverted from production) as did a host of individual gunmakers. This is not one of the Oberndorf pattern stocks, so it is likely what is called a “guild” gun built by a member of the gunmakers guild prior to WWII. In fact, judging by the unevenness of the stock side plates, the checkering, and the strange step down at the grip and forend, I would wager this is a cruder copy of the original stock. If you decide to shoot it in that caliber, you need to determine whether it is a .318 or .323 8mm. I would guess .318.

Whenever it was made, that stock was never designed for 9.3 recoil, it obviously couldn’t handle 8mm. The cross-bolt through the grip looks like what it is - a pretty crude repair by a shade tree gunsmith. I wouldn’t retain or replicate it in a new stock. A good stock maker can replicate that style (without the step down) in a new sturdier version, though that will be a significant investment.

Not sure where you are located, but if in the US, a gunsmith like JJ Perodeau can fit a set of rings to those bases in which you can use a modern straight tube scope. Fitting a ring to a specific objective is a very expensive undertaking - not that JJ’s work would be cheap.

It is your money, but I would suggest you really think through trying to restore this rifle. Just from the photos, you would be looking at several thousand dollars. I have over the years brought several such relics back from the brink, and the end products are worth perhaps 50% of the investment. It could be an interesting project, but there are lots of these between the wars sporters out there, and one in outstanding shape will cost far less than the restoration you seem to be contemplating.

Then honestly I feel like I've just wasted my money on a piece of junk and I might as well just get rid of it. But since I doubt I'll get back what I paid for it already and I can't return it, then I've already taken a loss.

But let's for a minute say that I do keep this rifle and that, regardless of investment vs end worth, I was interested in having the stock replicated in style but beefed up. I'd still appreciate suggestions for someone to do that. Doing that, reboring/rechambering if possible, and adding the Rigby rear sight would be all I feel I'd need to do for this project; anything else would be nice but not necessary to have a functional rifle as far as I can see.

 

[Standard Velocity]

It’s the replication of the current stock that’s gonna be the financial burden. You can get an off the shelf ‘98 pattern stock for $300 and up that would need some fitting.

If you kept the current barrel you’d have the front sling swivel to deal with. Reshaping the forearm to look British could look nice and be within the capabilities of a hobbyist. This route would only work if you purchased an uncheckered stock. Then you’d have to pay to have it checkered.

The cost of doing this to an otherwise affordable stock is why I’d just rebarrel it. New barrel + new stock and the gunsmithing associated with installation of the two should keep the project under 1k.

I assumed you would want to replace the scope as the cartridge you intend to rechamber to is appropriate for all medium large game (deer, black bear, plains game) as well as true large game. The light transmission of such an old scope with such a small tube is going to be a huge limitation. For example I have many Leupold scopes from the early 80’s through current production. The difference is about 30 minutes (80’s), 15 minutes (90’s), 10 minutes (00’s) and shootable past legal light for current production.

It is also possible that you will shoot the current scope apart with the increased recoil. At a minimum I’d make sure it’s 100% wiggle-free. Any play will be doubly hard on the scope.

If you find you do want a new scope, but want to forgo the claw mount to save money, it should be fairly inexpensive to cut that front mount off, reprofile the receiver ring, and D&T for a base. Then order an undrilled base for the rear so you can use the current holes.

If you do go forward with this project it’ll have to be for the fun of it cause like Red Leg said, it’s gonna cost you money you’ll never get back. I’ve had lots of fun throwing money away on guns but it’s still cheaper than a boat or young women.

 

[sestoppelman]

Probably the homeliest stock I have ever seen. As above, you can do much better than that for less. I personally don't like so called butterknife bolt handles anyway, but that one is just odd looking. Good luck with the project.

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

Larry Potterfield at Midway USA did a short video on a Mauser 98 project. Larry makes it seem so easy!

 

[Red Leg]

I am home now where I can see the photos on my desktop. That is definitely someone's garage product attempt to copy the original stock. The bedding must have been pretty bad as well, hence the crack. It is likely a WWII bring-back and someone replaced the original stock over here at some point. There are folks that can replicate a German style stock of that type. The rifle below is a 7x57 of mine with a Germanic inspired stock by Al Lind. The side plates on the stock are how they were done on a period mauser. However, a custom maker like Lind will cost a meaningful sum.

I am also concerned about that rear claw mount. It looks badly out of alignment to me. I wonder if it was reattached at some point by drilling the base and taping the receiver. Again, that has the look of garage work to me, rather than a professional's bench drill.

I am with @Standard Velocity on this one. I would not consider restoring it as an original Germanic hunting rifle. Use an off the shelf stock, use the action, and rebarrel. I think under a K is optimistic (For instance rings for those bases - before sorting out the rear base issue itself will be $300 - $500), but it will be far less than a true restoration.

I have been in this very place several times; part of a very expensive education learning about pre-war guns and rifles. For instance, many years ago my first English game gun was gunshow bargain for $1200. A Birmingham 12 bore, it needed to be put back on the face, a proper period style replacement pad, new springs, and several other tune ups. All that additional work was another 1200 - 1500. When all done, I had a wonderful Birmingham non-ejector game gun worth a solid $1600. There are two or three other such tales of woe in the gun room.

Good luck. This is a fine madness that we succumb to.

 

[WebleyGreene455]

Well I never intended it to be a true restoration, just a rebuild in the style of a traditional German rifle that I wouldn't feel bad about using and/or abusing, as opposed to finding an actual vintage 9.3x62mm (which seems to be about as rare as hen's teeth and from what I'd seen would cost about as much as a rebuild anyway). I know of a few places that do German-style stocks and can accommodate minor modifications, and as for the scope mount I believe the photo makes it look worse than it is. It's off-center but the photo makes it look severely skewed while in person it seems to be less so.

Honestly I expected this to be something of a garage job but my intention was to find a (relatively) inexpensive rifle and use it as the basis for my project. And since this one came with the scope, it seemed like a good idea.

So I guess at this point what I'm asking is, do y'all think the action/scope/mounts are a salvageable basis for a traditionally-German-inspired rifle (but not an outright restoration) that would be given a new stock and barrel? Or should I post it on gunbroker and try to make up for my loss? At the very least I can keep the scope, which I figured was worth about half of what I paid anyway...

 

[Red Leg]

Well I never intended it to be a true restoration, just a rebuild in the style of a traditional German rifle that I wouldn't feel bad about using and/or abusing, as opposed to finding an actual vintage 9.3x62mm (which seems to be about as rare as hen's teeth and from what I'd seen would cost about as much as a rebuild anyway). I know of a few places that do German-style stocks and can accommodate minor modifications, and as for the scope mount I believe the photo makes it look worse than it is. It's off-center but the photo makes it look severely skewed while in person it seems to be less so.

Honestly I expected this to be something of a garage job but my intention was to find a (relatively) inexpensive rifle and use it as the basis for my project. And since this one came with the scope, it seemed like a good idea.

So I guess at this point what I'm asking is, do y'all think the action/scope/mounts are a salvageable basis for a traditionally-German-inspired rifle (but not an outright restoration) that would be given a new stock and barrel? Or should I post it on gunbroker and try to make up for my loss? At the very least I can keep the scope, which I figured was worth about half of what I paid anyway...

So let me give you some more great news. Those pre-war scopes do not sell for much. Think about it. The one you have is only useful in the particular claw mounts positioned exactly as they are on your specific rifle. Moreover, these scopes are difficult to adjust (look how the turret functions), are not even water resistant much less water proof, and of course are not fog proof. Their light transmission capability is worse than Leupold's cheapest entry level product. I wouldn't think about actually using one on hunting rifle. I suspect I have half a dozen sitting around in drawers taken off drillings and rifles over the years. I'd gladly sell them, but one can hardly give them away.

Any out of alignment on a scope base is a meaningful issue regardless of the vintage of the rifle and needs to be competently addressed.

Were it me, and I wanted to keep it, I would restock it, fix the base issue, have modern rings made and use it as an 8x57 - AFTER I HAD SLUGGED THE BARREL - to determine if I had a .318 or .323.

 

[WebleyGreene455]

So let me give you some more great news. Those pre-war scopes do not sell for much. Think about it. The one you have is only useful in the particular claw mounts positioned exactly as they are on your specific rifle. Moreover, these scopes are difficult to adjust (look how the turret functions), are not even water resistant much less water proof, and of course are not fog proof. Their light transmission capability is worse than Leupold's cheapest entry level product. I wouldn't think about actually using one on hunting rifle. I suspect I have half a dozen sitting around in drawers taken off drillings and rifles over the years. I'd gladly sell them, but one can hardly give them away.

Any out of alignment on a scope base is a meaningful issue regardless of the vintage of the rifle and needs to be competently addressed.

Were it me, and I wanted to keep it, I would restock it, fix the base issue, have modern rings made and use it as an 8x57 - AFTER I HAD SLUGGED THE BARREL - to determine if I had a .318 or .323.

My problem is that I don't know if I want to keep it. If I do, fine, I'll address everything I need to in its own turn. If not, that's the problem. If I don't want to keep it, I want my money back. And if I can't sell it for what I paid, then I will be worse off than I was before. So I am very much torn over this and it's compounding on an already-bad day. Such indecision is unusual for me.

 

[Standard Velocity]

Out of curiosity how much did it cost you? If they didn’t booger the rear screw holes it could be sold as an action to build on. You won’t get your money back but it would take some of the sting out.

Ive managed not to ever buy a true dog of a gun but have taken a bath on a few things over the years. Remember the housing crash? Some bad investments smart worse than others.

Good luck and I hope it works out.

 

[AZDAVE]

When you buy a project gun it will ALWAYS cost more to build it the way you want vs just buying a modern 9.3. Your odds of getting the money invested back out of it are worse that slots in Vegas. So you have to decide on a budget, if you really want to do it etc. So assuming you want to go forward you will need to replace that POS stock. I do my own stock work and before you ask I only work on my, my wife's and 3 really good friends stock... However based on your basic requirement this shop has about the best deal on reshaping a stock that I have seen. http://www.rjrenner.com/about-us.html You would need buy a stock and have them reshape it. As for the barrel it is cheaper to have a new barrel put on and all the sight work etc. That is my .02

 

[WebleyGreene455]

Out of curiosity how much did it cost you? If they didn’t booger the rear screw holes it could be sold as an action to build on. You won’t get your money back but it would take some of the sting out.

Ive managed not to ever buy a true dog of a gun but have taken a bath on a few things over the years. Remember the housing crash? Some bad investments smart worse than others.

Good luck and I hope it works out.

Cost me $999. Which I'm sure I overpaid now but on the other hand when I considered the costs of getting, say, a Brazilian action, getting a double-set trigger setup, scope mounts, scope, and changing the bolt handle/bolt face, I expect that would've been more than $1K in the end just for the action stuff (not to mention the REQUIRED refinishing in that case). If the rear screw holes aren't buggered, I can indeed get a replacement NECG claw mount, and if they are, I can get a replacement NECG claw mount that's solder-on. It should work alright for the scope either way.

 

[WebleyGreene455]

Okay so... the more I look at this rifle and think about it, the more I just want to get rid of it and try to start over. But I have no inkling of how to get rid of it. Nobody's going to buy this piece of junk so I'm not going to get my money back...

 

[BeeMaa]

Everyone makes mistakes.
The important thing is that you learned something.
Take your lumps and move on.
Next time you will know better.

 

[WebleyGreene455]

A secret report within the Gu--

Er, I mean A slight development:

I'm going to send it back to the seller, "for inspection" according to their email, and we'll "see where to go from there". Naturally I'm hoping for a refund but I have my doubts about that outcome. However, I've learned from this and have resolved at least one backup plan should this not turn out as well as I'd like.

 

[WebleyGreene455]

Hi y'all.

So due to... uh, reasons, I'm pretty much stuck with this POS. Unless I can sell it off (PM me if you're interested, I know I'll be taking a loss but maybe someone will have a better use for it than I do), I guess my only alternative is to toss it in the river or something 'cause I see no point in trying to go through with a rebuild, nor do I especially want to sink the sheer amount of money into it when I've already overspent. I'd appreciate any suggestions on how to sell it, if anyone has them.

Thanks,
W.G.455

 

[sestoppelman]

Well look at this way. You just took a course in "more careful rifle buying", and the course cost $1000. Burn that ugliest stock in existence, put the barreled action on Gunbroker and get what you can, and as the Great Humongous, Warrior of the Wastelands, The Ayatollah of Rock and Rolla said in Road Warrior, "just walk away". No one can say you don't have cajones though, it took some big ones to post that rifle on any forum....

Similar thing happened to me a while back so don't feel too bad. I didn't have a grand in it, just a few hundred. It too was a Mauser, that turned out to be dangerously pitted under the wood line. Seller refused to return emails or anything else. GB was little help, it went on for months. They told me to send it to a smith of their choice for evaluation on my nickel. Finally told them to forget the whole damn thing. I parted it out and sold it on GB, ended up getting about a third of my money back. Such is life. Move on.