Method Of Payment

Ray B

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This may be more properly switched to general Chat but since it deals with a recent sales scam (https://www.africahunting.com/threa...model-70-super-grade-30-06.62810/#post-772178) I'm posting it here for opinions. when I purchase something that was advertised on the internet I pay in one of two ways: if it is a company I'll use a credit card that I have through a local bank but most often, the sale is by an individual as on AH and i use a personal check. I find the personal check the most satisfactory. If it gets lost/stolen in the mail payment is easily stopped and if it is cashed, it will have the signature of the casher and I get the check back from the bank. the seller is protested because it is agreed that shipment of product is delayed until the funds have cleared, which anymore is in less than two days. I once tried to buy a filter for my Hasselblad camera (so long ago that it was pre-digital). The seller was in OZ and wanted certified funds. So I sent a cert ck. then the seller decided to keep the filter. to his/her credit she didn't try to cash the check but he/she didn't return it either, so I had to pay about half the amount of the check to the bank to stop payment. That was the last time I cent a cert ck.

What systems of payment have all of you found to yield satisfactory results when internet items offered by individuals are involved?
 
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What I DON'T use is PayPal because they are very anti-gun.

I have been having good results with my Clients sending funds via Zellepay.com.

I send payment via USPS money order - now in Priority mail envelopes for the ability to track and speedier transit -

It takes alot of their time to spy on all of the US citizens' social media accounts, after all, so regular snail mail can take up to 3 weeks now.
 
Paypal is very anti-gun, as is Venmo as it is owned by PayPal. Zelle is a clean way to pay for something, as long as the seller is trusted. There is NO recourse if a seller is a crook and you payed via Zelle.

My preference is a credit card, but typically that can add a sizeable fee and most individual sellers aren't set up to use one anyway. Only other option for me is a personal check. That gives me a name and an address; and recourse if the purchase takes a bad turn.

Cashier checks, certified checks, usps money orders, other money orders; these are some of THE most forged methods of payment out there. And while there is a little protection with some of these for the buyer, it can be time consuming and expensive.
 
I use Zelle and Apple Pay as Venmo and Paypal have locked my accounts for selling scopes....which I was able to sell on Ebay(owns Paypal) with no issues and of course they make you use PayPal for payment.

As mentioned, there is no buyer protection with Zelle but to be honest, Paypal would not have paid on a claim involving firearm-related items anyways. On top of that, when using Paypal, there is no seller protection. I won't go into details but there are 2 very easy ways for someone to shaft the seller in a transaction when using Paypal.

USPS MO are generally a good idea, you can easily see if they are fake or real, depending on the amount and your post office you can cash them at the post office.


In the end, due diligence is your friend. If a deal is too good to be true, scrutinize it a bit more.
Red flags:
-New members with low post count
-New members with normal or high post counts in a short amount of time
-Seller wants to switch to email communications vs PM
-Messages with odd or incorrect use of the English language(its sometimes subtle)
-Seller refers to the item in question as "the item" instead of scope, rifle, binos etc
-A PM when you have an active "WTB" thread where someone directs you to his "friend" that has what youre looking for and provides an email address

What you can do
-Ask for pictures with your screenname written on a piece paper in the same phots as the item in question
-Pm other memebers who have possibly made a deal with the seller and an inquire as to how the transaction went
-Possibly ask to speak over the phone
-Use Google to check email and names to see if they show up anywhere in a negative manner


Those aren't foolproof, but they paint a picture to work with. I recently busted a scammer here that was the best scam play Ive seen yet. It was well done including some fancy photo manipulation to try and pass my screenname picture test....almost worked.

In the end, go with your gut unless you can afford to risk the money in question.
 
Zelle is owned by more than one anti-gun bank. Bank of America being one of them. Using online money transfer and trying to steer clear of anti-gun organizations is in my opinion, an exercise in futility. YMMV.

Food for thought:


OT, but for those that won't fly anything but Delta:

A number of major companies, including Delta Airlines and Avis car rentals, have discontinued discounts for NRA members after receiving backlash from consumers, while companies like Target and Chipotle no longer allow customers to carry firearms in their stores. Other companies, like FedEx and Amazon, have resisted calls to cut ties with the NRA.
 
I don’t really care if a company is anti gun, it’s impossibly to avoid at this point. I’m simply saying saying Zelle hasn’t locked my account.
 
Stumbled onto this: https://www.guntab.com/

Paypal for guns they say, no personal experience yet.

Have any of you tried it?
These never gain traction, just not enough people ever using it. Zelle is largely popular and yet I’d guess only 20% of people who have PayPal use Zelle also.
I believe Gunbroker now has an escrow type service
 
Paypal is very anti-gun, as is Venmo as it is owned by PayPal. Zelle is a clean way to pay for something, as long as the seller is trusted. There is NO recourse if a seller is a crook and you payed via Zelle.

My preference is a credit card, but typically that can add a sizeable fee and most individual sellers aren't set up to use one anyway. Only other option for me is a personal check. That gives me a name and an address; and recourse if the purchase takes a bad turn.

Cashier checks, certified checks, usps money orders, other money orders; these are some of THE most forged methods of payment out there. And while there is a little protection with some of these for the buyer, it can be time consuming and expensive.
My wife the banker of 38 years agrees with you. Even bank checks are forged now. If I can't get a CC then I do a wire transfer or cash if they are local.
 
Even bank checks are forged now.

That's why when I pay by check it is with the understanding that the item won't be shipped until the check has cleared both banks. The funds will be cleared and no possibility of fraud, then if the seller turns out to be a problem, then the buyer has the sellers signature and bank info on the cancelled check.
 
I have only done a couple of transactions on the forum here in the classifieds and both times I just took a personal check. One time I held the item until the check cleared and the other time I shipped the item at the same time that they told me that the check was in the mail.

Did I take a chance, yes I did on both items but I can usually tell when I am being BSed and what kind of a risk that the person sending the money is by talking to them. Until I get burned I'll continue doing it this way.

Locally I am selling a 16' utility trailer and a person asked me the other day if I took Velmo or whatever that is. I told him to go to his bank and get the cash then come see me. I haven't heard from him since. Then checking on Vemo I saw that you are limited to $299 dollars on a person to person transfer and I am asking $2000.
 
IMPORTANT: Counterfeit checks can look very authentic. Just because the money appears to be available in your account doesn’t mean that the check has cleared and is legitimate. Federal rules require banks to make deposits "available" to consumers quickly, often the following business day. A check takes a long time to clear. It may take a bank weeks to discover that the deposited check was fraudulent. The bank may still bounce the check if it’s a forgery. Once a victim wires funds onward from such a check, he or she may be liable to the bank for the amount wired. Typically the bank will not cover the loss, and expects the victim to pay the difference. You can check and verify its legitimacy by contacting the issuing bank. Do not use the contact information that appears on the check. Do a little leg work and obtain the contact information independently through legitimate directories.
 
Please take the time also to consult this thread:

 
It boggles my mind that American banks don’t allow customers to perform email money transfers.

I sent a gentleman $1000 last week, and on Tuesday a rifle will show up at my door delivered by my friendly mail lady. No FFL or background check required!

God bless Canada!
 
It boggles my mind that American banks don’t allow customers to perform email money transfers.

I sent a gentleman $1000 last week, and on Tuesday a rifle will show up at my door delivered by my friendly mail lady. No FFL or background check required!

God bless Canada!

Zelle is pretty close to this. Traditional banks got together and create Zelle to get back some of the business that was using PayPal.
 
IMPORTANT: Counterfeit checks can look very authentic. Just because the money appears to be available in your account doesn’t mean that the check has cleared and is legitimate. Federal rules require banks to make deposits "available" to consumers quickly, often the following business day. A check takes a long time to clear. It may take a bank weeks to discover that the deposited check was fraudulent. - - -
I received a check for a large amount and took it into the bank. I talked to them and they were going to "release" the funds in a week. I wanted to know when the funds would really be in the bank and in my account before I released my part of the contract. The bank said about 60 business days. I checked in every week and it took every bit of the 60 days. The other party was not happy. But I don't control the banking process.
 

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