Man-in-the-middle caliber

Tra3

AH fanatic
Joined
Jan 22, 2019
Messages
941
Reaction score
1,554
Location
Minneapolis, MN
Media
18
Member of
SCI
Hunted
Namibia
I thought the 270 and the 300 were a bit of overlap...

I suppose the .270 and .300 are kinda close, but the .270 with a 130 gr bullet is brilliant for NA antelope and deer. The .300 works for everything else.
The .270 barrel will also be the next step up my son will take from the 6.5CM, so there is a plan to it.

@Forrest Halley I think the .300WM and .375H&H are fat enough apart to justify both. I wouldn’t want to shoot the .375 off a bipod at an elk at 400 yards. I’m sure it will work, but that is not really a bipod-prone-shooting caliber. (Note: Im not a big guy)
 

C.W. Richter

AH fanatic
Joined
Aug 23, 2017
Messages
772
Reaction score
942
Location
Pocono Mtns., PA USA
Media
48
Hunting reports
Africa
1
Member of
PA SCI, Various Endless Mtns., PA Region Clubs
Hunted
Zimbabwe 2x, Namibia 2x, RSA 2x, USA, Canada
The .375 in a properly sized gun is more pleasant to shoot than a hot .300 WM in a light gun (have 2 of both.) .375 is a big bullet, but it's just the beginning of bigger bore guns. I suspect that the larger case exhibits less pressure and less felt recoil upon firing than the Win Mags (1,000 psi less pressure on avg and it's more of a slower shove vs. the high pressure magnums.) I tell people it's like a .30-06 with twice the bullet...If someone were to hunt elk w/ the 375, they'd want to use the 230ish grain bullets doing 3,000+ out the muzzle. I would rather use the 7s/30/338 as they are more flat shooting and the right tool for the job. Now tacking on a Mtn. Caribou to a Grizzly hunt, bring the .375 (or .338).
 

Forrest Halley

AH fanatic
Joined
Jul 28, 2019
Messages
877
Reaction score
1,240
Location
VA, USA
Media
25
I suppose the .270 and .300 are kinda close, but the .270 with a 130 gr bullet is brilliant for NA antelope and deer. The .300 works for everything else.
The .270 barrel will also be the next step up my son will take from the 6.5CM, so there is a plan to it.

@Forrest Halley I think the .300WM and .375H&H are fat enough apart to justify both. I wouldn’t want to shoot the .375 off a bipod at an elk at 400 yards. I’m sure it will work, but that is not really a bipod-prone-shooting caliber. (Note: Im not a big guy)
I accept the .270 because it is so inherently accurate. I would not have a use for a .300 WM except I have the world's best combination for whitetail in this caliber and I have killed a few with it in almost automatic fashion. The .375 is just so good at power and distance that I can bind it to a 300 grain Accubond and drive it over great distance or I can put a soft point in it and do well up close. I just don't think you can do the same job with the .300. yes I can reach further, but I don't hit with the same authority. The .375 isn't so bad in prone. Get a National Match Loop Sling and crank down. She'll behave herself and deliver death down range. Which reminds me I need to add a sling socket to my fore end. Don't worry, my hand will surely survive.
 

ChrisG

AH elite
Joined
Jan 6, 2015
Messages
1,039
Reaction score
1,208
Location
Adirondack Park, NY, USA
Media
44
Articles
1
Hunting reports
USA/Canada
3
Member of
NAHC, NRA, Rocky Mtn. Elk Foundation.
Hunted
USA, Canada
So.... as much as I wanted to order a kimber, I walked into my local shooters supply and what did he have on the shelf? A ruger american predator in .358 winchester. Cant say it was exactly the rifle I was looking for but it was really cheap and only weighs 6.6 lbs. 20" barrel... so I say all that to thank @Bob. He is the one who turned me down the .35 track and I am excited to carry this for black bear. I got loading dies with it and I am gonna probably start with some 200 grain speers and mess around with those.

This will be a bit of a project as the only way I'm gonna get irons on here is to lop about 1.25" off the barrel to get rid of the swell for the thread protector. Or Just put the front sight behind it, even though that will look a little weird to my eye. Then just mount a back sight on there somewhere.

Anyway it's not a stainless kimber but it had some of the features I wanted and it's going to be a fun project! I have never owned a .35 bore boltgun before so I am excited to see what it is capable of!
20200925_170504.jpg
 
Joined
Oct 28, 2018
Messages
3,790
Reaction score
6,029
Location
Wyong new south Wales Australia
Media
8
Hunting reports
Africa
1
Member of
SSAA
Hunted
Australia
So.... as much as I wanted to order a kimber, I walked into my local shooters supply and what did he have on the shelf? A ruger american predator in .358 winchester. Cant say it was exactly the rifle I was looking for but it was really cheap and only weighs 6.6 lbs. 20" barrel... so I say all that to thank @Bob. He is the one who turned me down the .35 track and I am excited to carry this for black bear. I got loading dies with it and I am gonna probably start with some 200 grain speers and mess around with those.

This will be a bit of a project as the only way I'm gonna get irons on here is to lop about 1.25" off the barrel to get rid of the swell for the thread protector. Or Just put the front sight behind it, even though that will look a little weird to my eye. Then just mount a back sight on there somewhere.

Anyway it's not a stainless kimber but it had some of the features I wanted and it's going to be a fun project! I have never owned a .35 bore boltgun before so I am excited to see what it is capable of!
View attachment 369269
@ChrisG
Like your choice you will be amazed at what the 358 will do, you will find it will probably end up your go to for most hunting.
Keep us posted on what you do and how it shoots it will be a good read. Sorry about recommending the 358 but it is just a baby Whelen and I love the Whelen.
I hope you get much enjoyment out of your new toy.
Bov
 

ChrisG

AH elite
Joined
Jan 6, 2015
Messages
1,039
Reaction score
1,208
Location
Adirondack Park, NY, USA
Media
44
Articles
1
Hunting reports
USA/Canada
3
Member of
NAHC, NRA, Rocky Mtn. Elk Foundation.
Hunted
USA, Canada
So I took my new .358 to the range today. It kicked a lot harder than I was expecting from a cartridge base on a .308 Winchester. But it shot really well and I walked away with a 0.9" 3 shot group at 100 yards. not to shabby with factory ammo.

I am waiting on some brass and bullets I have coming from a guy on gunbroker, then I have to just go get some IMR 3031 to load some up. I will say however, that the factory loads definitely hit with a thump down range. They were just the Hornday Custom 200 grain SP rounds, but they shot well and I was happy with them.

The real question I have is, does anyone have suggestions of bullets for versatility in the caliber. I usually default to the Barnes TTSX, and while this gun can shoot them, powder space is very limited and they cannot be driven as fast as you would think they can. Has anyone tried the Nosler partition out of a .358 on animals beyond 250 yards. The trajectory is definitely flat enough for a 300 yard shot on deer or elk sized game from this rifle, but I was wondering if anyone has done it an had success with the bullet performing as designed?
 

bruce moulds

AH legend
Joined
Aug 10, 2018
Messages
2,772
Reaction score
3,901
i have had partition problems with 338 and 366, so would assume 358 would be the same.
my 358, a miroku, was a bit lacking penetration on pigs with 200 gn hornady round nose, possibly because the bullet might be meant for 35 rem.
it could have been ok on smaller deer.
possibly a stouter 200 gn spitzer or 225 gn spitzer might suit your 300 yd goal.
sierras are underrated by many.
and yes the 358 does kick a bit for such a compact package in a light gun.
at one time it was fairly popular in alaska for bear protection.
bruce.
 

ChrisG

AH elite
Joined
Jan 6, 2015
Messages
1,039
Reaction score
1,208
Location
Adirondack Park, NY, USA
Media
44
Articles
1
Hunting reports
USA/Canada
3
Member of
NAHC, NRA, Rocky Mtn. Elk Foundation.
Hunted
USA, Canada
i have had partition problems with 338 and 366, so would assume 358 would be the same.
What kind of problems? Did they not expand well or was the issue accuracy related?
 

bruce moulds

AH legend
Joined
Aug 10, 2018
Messages
2,772
Reaction score
3,901
What kind of problems? Did they not expand well or was the issue accuracy related?
nosler partitions are generally more accurate than needed in a hunting rifle, and don't have bad b.c. either.
their problem is in terminal performance.
sometimes when the nose blows off, the violence of this changes the direction in which the bullet flies through the animal.
on deer through the ribs this is not an issue.
on pig and donkey shoulder blades it has proven to be a serious issue.
bruce.
 

RayAtkinson

AH fanatic
Joined
Mar 17, 2009
Messages
672
Reaction score
572
Location
Filer,
Media
25
Articles
1
Member of
SCI Dallas
Hunted
RSA, Botswana, CAR, Tanzania, Zimbabwe, Zambia, Mozambique, Kenya way back when, and a few others that I can't remember.
Differnt strokes for different folks!! I could do the same thing with a 30-06 and have, or a 7x57 handloaded or .308...and any magnum...but if you go to Africa I wouldn't take but one or two guns, and 3s the lemit .
 

RayAtkinson

AH fanatic
Joined
Mar 17, 2009
Messages
672
Reaction score
572
Location
Filer,
Media
25
Articles
1
Member of
SCI Dallas
Hunted
RSA, Botswana, CAR, Tanzania, Zimbabwe, Zambia, Mozambique, Kenya way back when, and a few others that I can't remember.
If your a now and then hunter, one a year for deer, maybe and elk in a lifetime one gun such as a 30-06 is ideal....If your an avid hunter one gun isn't smart or useful...A 22 L.R., a varmet rifle, a shotgun, and a 7x57 or 30-06 as well as a 338 Win or 375.. is minimum in my case..but I also had a double rifle and a 404 in my about 50 trips to Africa and other parts of the world...A different tool for the job..

If one gun for all of the NA continent would be a .338 and/or a 30-06..As to the smaller 338 calibers I can load the 338 Win down to that, they cannot load the 338 fed. up to that.

I only speak for myself, the choice is the same for others..take what you like and like it or pay the piper..
 

Fastrig

Gold supporter
AH fanatic
Joined
Jun 15, 2019
Messages
875
Reaction score
1,193
Location
Hill Country, TX
Media
28
Member of
NRA Life Member
Hunted
CA, TX, MT, CO, NV, AK, NE, SD, FL
If your a now and then hunter, one a year for deer, maybe and elk in a lifetime one gun such as a 30-06 is ideal....If your an avid hunter one gun isn't smart or useful...A 22 L.R., a varmet rifle, a shotgun, and a 7x57 or 30-06 as well as a 338 Win or 375.. is minimum in my case..but I also had a double rifle and a 404 in my about 50 trips to Africa and other parts of the world...A different tool for the job..

If one gun for all of the NA continent would be a .338 and/or a 30-06..As to the smaller 338 calibers I can load the 338 Win down to that, they cannot load the 338 fed. up to that.

I only speak for myself, the choice is the same for others..take what you like and like it or pay the piper..

From what I've seen with my 338 fed, you don't need to load it up....it's a thumper without the huge recoil.
 
Joined
Oct 28, 2018
Messages
3,790
Reaction score
6,029
Location
Wyong new south Wales Australia
Media
8
Hunting reports
Africa
1
Member of
SSAA
Hunted
Australia
So I took my new .358 to the range today. It kicked a lot harder than I was expecting from a cartridge base on a .308 Winchester. But it shot really well and I walked away with a 0.9" 3 shot group at 100 yards. not to shabby with factory ammo.

I am waiting on some brass and bullets I have coming from a guy on gunbroker, then I have to just go get some IMR 3031 to load some up. I will say however, that the factory loads definitely hit with a thump down range. They were just the Hornday Custom 200 grain SP rounds, but they shot well and I was happy with them.

The real question I have is, does anyone have suggestions of bullets for versatility in the caliber. I usually default to the Barnes TTSX, and while this gun can shoot them, powder space is very limited and they cannot be driven as fast as you would think they can. Has anyone tried the Nosler partition out of a .358 on animals beyond 250 yards. The trajectory is definitely flat enough for a 300 yard shot on deer or elk sized game from this rifle, but I was wondering if anyone has done it an had success with the bullet performing as designed?
@ChrisG
Have you tried any 200 or 225 grain Woodleighs yet they are a bonded bullet
Bob
 

ChrisG

AH elite
Joined
Jan 6, 2015
Messages
1,039
Reaction score
1,208
Location
Adirondack Park, NY, USA
Media
44
Articles
1
Hunting reports
USA/Canada
3
Member of
NAHC, NRA, Rocky Mtn. Elk Foundation.
Hunted
USA, Canada
@ChrisG
Have you tried any 200 or 225 grain Woodleighs yet they are a bonded bullet
Bob
I haven't. I use woodleighs almost exclusively in my .375 and I really like them. I haven't done much loading lately though. I have pretty much assumed that if I wanted loading components, they would be out of stock everywhere. Woodleighs and partitions would be my go to premiums for the .358 because it is so low velocity that I would want to ensure they expanded.

I have been messing with airguns a lot more lately (just bought a .25 FX Impact) for hunting so when I get back to loading again I will see if anyone has woodleighs in stock.
 
Joined
Oct 28, 2018
Messages
3,790
Reaction score
6,029
Location
Wyong new south Wales Australia
Media
8
Hunting reports
Africa
1
Member of
SSAA
Hunted
Australia
I haven't. I use woodleighs almost exclusively in my .375 and I really like them. I haven't done much loading lately though. I have pretty much assumed that if I wanted loading components, they would be out of stock everywhere. Woodleighs and partitions would be my go to premiums for the .358 because it is so low velocity that I would want to ensure they expanded.

I have been messing with airguns a lot more lately (just bought a .25 FX Impact) for hunting so when I get back to loading again I will see if anyone has woodleighs in stock.
@ChrisG
You will have to try the woodleigh PPSP in your 358.
This is a,photo of them from woodleigh and I can verify they are that good just remembered the velocity parameters.
Bob
Screenshot_20210227-064355_Chrome.jpg

You could try Huntington reloading supplies.
 

Woodcarver

Bronze supporter
AH senior member
Joined
Dec 23, 2020
Messages
61
Reaction score
103
Location
Colorado
Media
3
Member of
NRA Benefactor Life, Ducks Unlimited Life, RMEF Life, NAHC Life
Hunted
USA (CO, KS, TX, WA, AZ, TN), Alberta, Canada
Hey everyone,

So My approach to firearms is to have one for every size animal caliber, and one several that could fill almost any scenario, while at the same time, not trying to keeping the arsenal to a minimum.

I also am a big proponent of open sights. As a barrel without them just looks weird to me.

Anyone think of a reason that this is unnecessary? Or does it make sense to round out the gun cabinet?
This is a much better premise with which to approach rounding out the gun cabinet, IMO. :A Shades:
 

Alaska Luke

AH veteran
Joined
Jan 28, 2020
Messages
189
Reaction score
341
Location
Alaska
Website
www.youtube.com
Media
49
Articles
1
Hunting reports
USA/Canada
2
Hunted
Texas, Arkansas, Alaska
Haha you are doing almost exactly what I did with my Ruger American 358! Mine is shortened, has iron sites and a QD scope. Main difference is I changed the stock too

As far as bullets I've shot 3 caribou with the 225 grain Nosler Partition. It did impressive damage. Last caribou was crippled so I snuck up and finished him at close range. The bullet broke a shoulder, a rib, went through the chest and exited breaking another rib. At 358 velocities I think the Nosler Partition is the best. Barnes bullets are probably going to eat up powder space. Woodleighs and Speers have a low BC so you're going to lose range with them.

That last caribou I shot was a big bodied bull. After seeing the damage on him I'd feel good using a 358 Nosler Partition on anything except maybe a big grizzly. But for anything smaller I don't think it's to soft.
 

ChrisG

AH elite
Joined
Jan 6, 2015
Messages
1,039
Reaction score
1,208
Location
Adirondack Park, NY, USA
Media
44
Articles
1
Hunting reports
USA/Canada
3
Member of
NAHC, NRA, Rocky Mtn. Elk Foundation.
Hunted
USA, Canada
Haha you are doing almost exactly what I did with my Ruger American 358! Mine is shortened, has iron sites and a QD scope. Main difference is I changed the stock too

As far as bullets I've shot 3 caribou with the 225 grain Nosler Partition. It did impressive damage. Last caribou was crippled so I snuck up and finished him at close range. The bullet broke a shoulder, a rib, went through the chest and exited breaking another rib. At 358 velocities I think the Nosler Partition is the best. Barnes bullets are probably going to eat up powder space. Woodleighs and Speers have a low BC so you're going to lose range with them.

That last caribou I shot was a big bodied bull. After seeing the damage on him I'd feel good using a 358 Nosler Partition on anything except maybe a big grizzly. But for anything smaller I don't think it's to soft.
I have a bell and carlson stock for it picked out. I am just waiting because I have to start building a house on the 12 acres of game rich land I bought!:D I know...12 acres isn't a lot but it does have lots of deer, turkey and coyote sign on it as it is abutted by two huge farm fields!

Anyway, I did apply a textured coat to the Ruger American stock after I scuffed it up (those things are slippery so paint doesn't stick well). I don't have a picture of it but it is a grey and white speckled finish and looks decent with a bit more grip.

I will say, the .358 is becoming one of my favorite calibers and I may someday actually build a really nice one off a stainless Kimber .308 action. For now though. The American seems to fit the bill and I bought 300 Hornady 200 grain bullets for it before all the craziness with the price of components happened, so I can shoot it for a while.
 

MS 9x56

AH enthusiast
Joined
Apr 10, 2020
Messages
477
Reaction score
738
Location
Central NY
Media
1
I have and use a BLR in 358 winchester and I heartily recommend the 225 grain partitions for bear. There is really no bad bullet for this round. At the velocities attainable in this caliber I do not recommend the Barnes all copper bullets just due to the fact that their performance velocity envelope limits your effective range. That said this is not a short range cartridge as has been written add nauseum. For deer and similar game I routinely use 180 grain bullets but love the performance of 200 grain round nose bullets. Also I would recommend mounting a peep sight for your irons. At typical woods ranges they can’t be beat.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
37,289
Messages
710,672
Members
66,391
Latest member
ScottGoebe
 

 

 

Latest profile posts

cal pappas wrote on Mnelson2's profile.
Nelson. Is this message a PM format. I want to send you my email, but don't know if this is the cirrect way to do it. I'm at <pappas@mtaonline.net> Send me an email with your phone and I will call you about a skull I have. I went to school in Boston and am from Bernardston in the west part of the state. Moved to Alaska in 1984 adn never looked back.
BeeMaa wrote on Justbryan's profile.
Sold a Blaser scope mount to him. He was a pleasure to do business with.
BeeMaa wrote on 375Fox's profile.
Sold a Blaser scope mount to him. Was a pleasure to do business with.
Tundra Tiger wrote on Alaska Luke's profile.
Hi Luke. Just saw your message. I am in Dillingham, and have been since 2002. I took an elementary teaching gig here, taught here five years, and then got a job with Togiak National Wildlife Refuge as their education and outreach specialist. Recently I just got a promotion and now I'm the Visitor Services Manager. Prior to DLG I spent 6 years teaching for Lake and Pen in Nondalton.
Serbian Hunter wrote on Tundra Tiger's profile.
Hi TT
I am glad you found some useful info in my posts. Hard cast WFN with GC will do the job fine. I trust Veral Smith (owner of LBT company) - I believe that he can provide you with some finest HC bullets. Many companies are coping his design. I can help you from here in developing max loads (40.000psi) just let me know which powder you are using (I use Quick Load software which turns to be very reliable).
 
Top