Man-in-the-middle caliber

Professor Mawla

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dont think there’s a ZKK in this caliber Prof. I haven’t seen one unless it’s custom built. Mine is a standard Howa 1500 To which I added a Boyd stock . It likes a 250 grain load.
@John Telford
They are rare , but they do exist . Another forum member also owns one . Perhaps this link should interest you :
 

mark-hunter

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They are rare , but they do exist

Dear @Professor Mawla,
I am also of opinion that 9.3x62 was not made by factory in ZKK production line.
It could be that they are later costuimized by owner.

See below ZKK manual, page 5, for caliber options:
zkk 600.jpg
 

Professor Mawla

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Dear @Professor Mawla,
I am also of opinion that 9.3x62 was not made by factory in ZKK production line.
It could be that they are later costuimized by owner.

See below ZKK manual, page 5, for caliber options:
View attachment 368911
@mark-hunter
This is odd . Take a look at this advertisement .
E4A6BC03-DD18-4E0D-B10A-FFA64D26D42B.jpeg

Perhaps the manual that you show , is chronologically of an earlier vintage than the advertisement which I show ?

I do notice one more oddity in your manual . The BRNO ZKK - 602 is not listed in .358 Norma Magnum . Yet BRNO certainly chambered the ZKK 602 in the .358 Norma Magnum calibre .
 

mark-hunter

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Perhaps the manual that you show , is chronologically of an earlier vintage than the advertisement which I show ?

This is the only logical explanation!

You will also notice that older models have two crossbolts on the stock, while (presumably) newer model ZKK does not have them. So, it may as well be as you have concluded.
The internet is scarce, looking for details of this, already vintage rifle.
zkk 602 old model.jpg
 
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ChrisG

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@ ChrisG
A friend of mine had a 338 Fedral and used it on game up to and including water buffalo with 185 tsxs with success.
What about the 358 Winchester. Punches well above it's weight and just works no fuss no bother.
Bob
See after you said that... I went looking. I never really considered the .358 winchester a useful caliber much past 200 yards but it looks like it is at least a 300 yard cartridge and with a little holdover, it will stretch to 350 without too much drama. I really like the idea. Unfortunately, the main issue with the .358 is rifle availability. There are very few rifles made in the category I am looking for: lightweight, stainless, composite. The only one would be the browning BLR and it isn't really lightweight by any stretch. so I would be looking at a custom build. I should just start saving my doubloons and get a New Ultralight Arms rifle made.
 
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See after you said that... I went looking. I never really considered the .358 winchester a useful caliber much past 200 yards but it looks like it is at least a 300 yard cartridge and with a little holdover, it will stretch to 350 without too much drama. I really like the idea. Unfortunately, the main issue with the .358 is rifle availability. There are very few rifles made in the category I am looking for: lightweight, stainless, composite. The only one would be the browning BLR and it isn't really lightweight by any stretch. so I would be looking at a custom build. I should just start saving my doubloons and get a New Ultralight Arms rifle made.
@ChrisG.
Ruger made a nice little 358 or a nice lightweight carbine 308 and a JES revote or light weight savage and a 200 dollar barrel swap. 308 barrel and a 358 barrel.
Bob.
358 with a 200 grain accubond would be great.
 

ChrisG

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A number of people have recommended the .338 win mag. I have owned one in the past and while I love the cartridge, once I had a .375, It was unnecessary. The venndiagram of the two cartridges usefulness and applicability looks similar to this:
1600862345226.png

I don't need two cartridge's that essentially do the same job. Someday when my children are older, I will be fine if they have a version of one of my guns, but it is theirs.

The other thing I have against the .338 mag is that, in the rifle style I am looking for (essentially a mountain rifle), The .338 is going to kick worse than a .458 Lott. I can't imagine a 6.5 pound gun throwing a 250 grain bullet with 70 grains of slow burning powder. I can shoot probably 10 rounds out of my .375 before my shooting starts to suffer. A gun like that, I would probably be done after 3. If there is one rule I adhere to, it is that I need to be shooting my rifles all year long to maintain proficiency with them. I definitely DON'T think I would be reaching for that one for many range trips. That's for sure.
 

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@ChrisG.
Ruger made a nice little 358 or a nice lightweight carbine 308 and a JES revote or light weight savage and a 200 dollar barrel swap. 308 barrel and a 358 barrel.
Bob.
358 with a 200 grain accubond would be great.
I will have to look for one of those. I did see they used to make a frontier in .358. I wish they still made that rifle as it was one of my all time favorites. Again, I would have to add irons to it but with the rear scope mount open and a EER scope attached, that would give me a spot for a peep and then just solder on a front blade.

The main issue with the frontier is that they go for like $1,100 now because they have a cult following and people can't find them anymore. I wish ruger would make them again... no wait scratch that...

I wish that Ruger would send their technicians to a basic metalsmithing/finishing class at their local Cornell Cooperative extension, so that the Frontiers they make actually come out looking like something someone would want to buy.

now you have me leaning toward the .358 winchester....
 

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In the US the "middle" for most would fit in gap between average deer/pronghorn sized caliber and large bear caliber. Somewhat similar internationally/Africa with between small-average PG antelope and larger eland sized to big DG like buffalo. My thought would be something like 270 Win for the deer side and 375 HH for the larger side. I went down a similar, fill-the-gap evolutionary path starting with a 270 along with 30-06 and jumping straight to 375 HH. I later modified that slightly by going a little larger on the big side to 416 Remington Mag. Now the question?? decide on what is practical and makes sense in between?? I flirted with some calibers like the 8MM Remington Mag which could be pressed one direction or another to fill the gap, in my case between the 270 or 30-06 and the 375 or 416. Finally settled on either 35 Whelen Ack Imp or 338-06. Then after adequate time to "brew and steep", I settled on my gap filler- the 338-06. My current (smokeless) caliber continuum spread is--- 22rf, 222 Rem, 270 Win, 7x57, 30-30 Win, 338-06, 375 HH, 416 Rem, 450 Watts. While I've owned and shot a multitude of other in betweener and "specialty" calibers, that is my current and likely last list. The 338-06 is easy to live with and works well for my purposes.
 

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Such an interesting thread. In the US we tend to go on hunts for a single species. As a result we take a rifle optimal for the species and the conditions. In Africa, you tend to take what the bush gives you. Last year, heading back to the vehicle after an aborted mission on buffalo, we came across a warthog that just couldn’t be passed up. So it was shot with what we had on hand. I think Red Leg probably has the right approach for Africa, take one gun that you are comfortable with in all situations. I’ve gone both ways but the more safaris I get under my belt, the more I see the wisdom in his approach.
 

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I've also been a victim of "overthink" but in recent years have tried to simplify and really think it all through. Given all the choices I have, instead of one caliber per size increment of animal, I think it works better for me to just go with the best caliber for the largest and use it for all game in that trip. I've done that where the PG included everything from springbuck or impala up to eland, used the 375 HH and it worked perfectly well. Same when the bag included buffalo and eland and smaller PG, used the 416 Rem and did perfectly well. Now I'll always opt for the largest caliber appropriate for the largest expected game and use it for all lesser game, instead of using a lesser caliber and trying to make it work for a larger/tougher animal. Plus, it's just easier to deal with one rifle and concentrate on one set of transport rules, forms, permits, ammo, ballistics, bullets and expectations during these trips than with two or more. IMO
 

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The more I read this the more I say .35 Whelen. You can shoot cheap .357 magnum bullets in it all year long and then load up with more expensive bullets for hunting. I have a friend who is getting ridiculous groups at 100 yards with 180 grain Hornady XTP. I am sorely tempted to get one.
 
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I will have to look for one of those. I did see they used to make a frontier in .358. I wish they still made that rifle as it was one of my all time favorites. Again, I would have to add irons to it but with the rear scope mount open and a EER scope attached, that would give me a spot for a peep and then just solder on a front blade.

The main issue with the frontier is that they go for like $1,100 now because they have a cult following and people can't find them anymore. I wish ruger would make them again... no wait scratch that...

I wish that Ruger would send their technicians to a basic metalsmithing/finishing class at their local Cornell Cooperative extension, so that the Frontiers they make actually come out looking like something someone would want to buy.

now you have me leaning toward the .358 winchester....
@ChrisG.
Sorry about that but the 35 cal is so underrated but those that have the don't get rid of them very often. They just plain work and don't need fancy bullets.
Bob
 
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The more I read this the more I say .35 Whelen. You can shoot cheap .357 magnum bullets in it all year long and then load up with more expensive bullets for hunting. I have a friend who is getting ridiculous groups at 100 yards with 180 grain Hornady XTP. I am sorely tempted to get one.
@Forrest Halley
You have finally seen the light young'n. There ain't much a properly loaded Whelen won't/ C ant handle.
Bob
 

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Have you looked at the Kimber Montana?
For what you are looking for it's right up your alley.
Stainless, synthetic and available in 308WIN, 30-06 & 300WM.
Other "middle" calibers are also availble.

In 30-06 it weighs under 6# and would be a great mountain rifle.
 

bruce moulds

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@ChrisG
All your choices, are very good.
In the medium level, I would opt for something in the range between 7-8mm, but realistacally with 6.5 you can do anything any 7mm can do.

Also, I am in full agreement with you for iron sights on hunting rifles. All my rifles have iron sights. And all my moutns are QD of some kind.

My choices are following:
Small game (up to 20lbs)- .22 lr

Varmints(up to 100 lbs) - .223 - CZ527 American - I dont do varminting, but I have some limited experience, with both, 223 rem and cz527. I would choose the same combo. I am even considering the same for my son, when he takes hunters exam. But it will be limited use, up to the size of roe deer (60 pounds, cca)

Medium Game - (up to 350lbs) - 30-06

Large Game - Anything else - I use 9.3x62 semi (boars, red deer), and my next gun will be 375 HH, on mauser type action, with main purpose for African safari.
i would never say the 6.5 will compete with a 7mm.
this based from going head to head culling 6.5x55 and 280 rem.
also using a 6.5/06 myself and also a 280.
the effects on the receiving end are quite noticeable.
having used a 358, i would never call it a mountain rifle cartridge for trajectory reasons.
for what the o.p. wants, and in keeping with the fact he has a 6.5, perhaps a 30/06 would have a lot to offer.
bruce.
 

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I think my list would read like this. There's nothing you couldn't do with this list.

22LR
223
30/06
375 H&H
458 Lott
12 Ga Shotgun
Honestly as someone that happens to have experience with all of these calibers and loves them all, I approve!
Also with the right .22 you can bridge the gap of the .223 with the .30-06 bringing up the longer range needs with a 125-130 grain bullet. I am torn over the noise a .223 makes versus the noise a .30-06 makes. I have been playing with .22's lately around 100 yards offhand. It's fun and the slow bullets make you focus on your form.
 

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... While the .375 is perfect in my opinion for larger bears (My goal would be to hunt Kodiak before I die), elk and moose, It is massively overkill for smaller bears and the 6.5x55 doesn't leave a great blood trail in the fall when I hunt them and they have thick fur and lots of fat to plug up that little hole. Hence the search for a .338 federal.
...

Anyone think of a reason that this is unnecessary? Or does it make sense to round out the gun cabinet?

If you want to buy another gun, buy it. However, with the selection of multitude of loadings for .375H&H it would not be an overkill for a black bear. Heck, I took one with a 325 grain bullet @2950 fps out of my .500 MDM in the past.
 

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@John Telford
They are rare , but they do exist . Another forum member also owns one . Perhaps this link should interest you :
My mistake - I thought you were referring to a ZKK in 338 win mag! 9,3 x 62 most certainly do exist but not as common As the .375hh
 
 

 

 

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